Lighting intensity

Paul Davis Jun 11, 2002

  1. Paul Davis

    Paul Davis TrainBoard Member

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    I'm trying to determine how much lighing I need to provide enough lumination on my layout. I'm thinking of possibly using low voltage halogen lighting as a low ceiling with several obstructions may make florescent lighting impractical. One drawback with the halogen is the intensity isn't nearly as great. with an output of only 150-300 lumens per lights as apposed to 2000 lumens from a single floresent tube. The light however is far more directional. Just to give a practical gude to the brightness my camera meters a 2 second exposure at F22 using 400ISO film and a standard 50mm lens when pointed at a green peice of plastic iluminated by the lights. Using a similar kind of setup how long of an exposure would you have to make? How little lighting is too little?

    The only other concern I have is the possibility of multiple shadows or shadows not pointing in the same direction. Any one have this problem?
     
  2. Paul Templar

    Paul Templar Passed away November 23, 2008 In Memoriam

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    Hello Paul,
    If you can get tubes on your ceiling, I would suggest - FLUORESCENT DAYLIGHT TUBES, these tubes are rated at 55OO degrees Kelvin and are perfect match for colour photography, when using daylight type slide or print film, they come in 4' 5' and 6' lengths, and are only a little bit more expensive than normal household fluorescent tubes, and as they match daylight temperature no filters i.e. 8OA or 8OB are required.

    As for film speeds, the slower the film speed :- 25 ISO - The better the quality photograph, with hardly any grain what so ever, but exposure time will be very long using any 35mm camera.

    [​IMG]

    [ 11 June 2002, 08:18: Message edited by: Paul Templar ]
     
  3. watash

    watash Passed away March 7, 2010 TrainBoard Supporter In Memoriam

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    Halogen lights get VERY hot and can start a fire if too close to a flamable material like wood, paint, paper, and your hair!

    They were taken off the market for use in floor lamps after they set several house fires!

    They recommend you allow three to four feet minimum space around them, and where NO ONE can touch the bulb with their fingers (even when the bulb is cool.)

    Your finger print will make the bulb explode the next time it is turned on!.

    You must also provide air circulation around the wall/ceiling side because it gets hot too. The ones I have are extremely bright! Much much brighter than the 4 bulb fluorescents hanging near by in my work shop.

    [ 11 June 2002, 08:35: Message edited by: watash ]
     
  4. cthippo

    cthippo TrainBoard Member

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    I'd also recommend flourescent lighting for the layout. I'm using all flourescent in my layout building with 3 2-tube (4 footers) fixtures providing all the light I need for a 16X19 room. The tubes last half of forever and are quite inexpensive.

    As for photography, I've found that I get much better results with my digital camera (Sony Mavica FDC 73) than with any film camera for model RR photography. This is mostly because I don't have a depth of field problem with the Mavica like I do with my 35mm. When I do use the 35mm, I only use 800 ASA film and have never had any problem with grain, even on enlarged prints.
     
  5. Kitbash

    Kitbash TrainBoard Supporter

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    This is what I do for a living.

    The best lighting that is available and most reasonable to install for residential use is a mixture of fluorescent and incandescent lighting.

    Back Lighting: It is no accident most "professional" modelers use some sort of back lighting. That is:
    </font>
    • Track lighting or strategically placed spot lights along the front edge or aisle spaces of the layout. This is where one can use halogen or standard filament incandescent fixtures. These are used to both wash general areas from the front AND to spot special scenes. If you use lamps less than 90W.. such as 50 to 90 watt Par lamps, R lamps, etc...mounted at the ceiling above your layout, you should be fine w/ respect to distances, etc of halogen lamps. </font>
    • IF YOU GO HALOGEN or other "hot operating lamp", HEED ALL WARNINGS regarding position of lamp in mounting, integrity of any lamp guards, shields, etc. Halogen lamps are well worth it and safe as long as they are NOT MISUSED. Read and understand thier use BEFORE you install to save yourself some headaches. They are worth it in performance. </font>
    • Make sure you do not overload a circuit. If you have the luxury of running dedicated circuits, add up the wattage. For each 120 volt, 15 amp DEDICATED circuit breaker, you can reasonably put a maximum of 1400 TOTAL watts per circuit. For a 120 volt, 20 amp DEDICATED circuit, you can reasonably put 1800 watts per circuit. IF YOU HAVE any doubts get a qualified electrician to assist you. Such work must be done to satisfy local codes which is the National Electric Code in most regions w/ some jurisdictions having local ammendments. It is not rocket science... just something that is to be considered and followed. Again.. get a licensed electrician to help. </font>
    • As for intensities, I would recommend obtaining a copy of General Electric's Lamp Guide. It is a paper book about 1/2" thick that lists all typical lamps made, wattages, LUMEN OUTPUTS, base types, color temperatures, etc. Another possibility is to visit a distributor house of light fixtures in your area. They would (or SHOULD) have a copy of this document that you could possibly look at. I believe Sylvania and Philips also have such lamp guides/directories. This will give you your best idea of intensities you could expect. </font>
    • Last... it is also important that you spread lights out evenly. What will make the layout look best is a "uniformity ratio". Whatever light level is acheived, you want an even light. This is especially true w/ for the ambient lighting. That is why good color fluorescents look the best as cove lighting over the back of the layout. Also, your wall and ceiling colors give various relectance levels that affect the appearance of lighting. With typical modelers having "skyblue" backdrops, it is best to carry the backdrop as high as possible so the predominant reflectance is coming from "light blue" as opposed to dark paneling or other "not-so-good" reflectance color. ALSO, white ceilings!
      </font>
    The big key in lighting is creating general ambient lighting in the background w/ plenty of good color (incandescent) feature lighting from other angles. Usually from the front. Also, many track/spot/flood fixtures are available w/ glare guard accessories which may be necessary or desired based on various, unique mounting scenarios.
    Good luck!
    Kitbash

    [ 11 June 2002, 10:02: Message edited by: Kitbash ]
     
  6. Gary Pfeil

    Gary Pfeil TrainBoard Member

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    Paul, I have much the same conditions as you describe and used Daylight flourescnets as Paul Templar suggested. Only I spaced mine 2' apart, not 18". My ceiling was 7' high and I built my layout near eye level (64") so I had little space. I bought cheap 2 bulb 4' fixtures and the daylight bulbs (my layout is 5' deep so I ran the fixtures perpendicular to the aisle). The resulting lighting was even but the lamps were distracting so I made my own "diffusers" by making frames of ripped pine 1x4's and gluing white butcher paper to them. They are suspended just at the bottom of the fixtures by angles attached to the ceiling. A valance in front makes the whole thing presentable. The diffuser cuts back on the lighting level but two 4' bulbs every 2' provide plenty of light.

    Gary
     
  7. ten87

    ten87 TrainBoard Member

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    It's all about heat! :mad: I had 25 watt spot lights - ten of them. That was equal to a 250 watt heater in my small train room. I switched to 7 watt compact flourescents, and only needed seven to get an equal amount of light. The combined heat is only 49 watts, or less that one-fifth the amount of heat. [​IMG]

    In an upstairs, 10x10' trainroom, that made a huge difference in my comfort while running trains.

    I don't have a photo with the new lights (there are 10 spots in this photo), but they fit in the same fixtures, just three fewer now. I should also point out that the reason the track lighting is mounted on brackets is so that all the lamps are the same distance (and intensity) above the layout.

    [​IMG]

    [ 11 June 2002, 14:02: Message edited by: ten87 ]
     
  8. Trainboy

    Trainboy E-Mail Bounces

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    I agree with Compact Flourecents for spots they have higher lumens per watt then incandecent. Also, a company called Lights of America makes what the call Flourex outdoor CF floods. 6700K color temp 65 and smaller wattage. great for high intensity more blue lighting.
     

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