For those free-lancers out there who have given a full history to their railroad, how did you go about developing a specific diesel roster for your railroad? I know what I want to run on the layout, but I'm a bit stuck in picking out what my "prototype" railroad ran. Specifically, how did you decide, in the course of writing your railroad's history, how many of each type of locomotive to purchase, how many total locomotives should be on the roster, and what the service life of each model should be? I'm trying to develop an all-time roster for my free-lanced railroad and I'm looking for some ideas you guys have had to draw from. Thanks for the help!
Brian, It might help to study other prototype railroads that are similar to your own. For instance, in developing the engine roster for my Santiam Pacific, I've studied the similar Spokane, Portland & Seattle (which I also model), the Western Pacific, Denver & Rio Grande Western, Great Northern and Northern Pacific. Also, remember that though many mid-sized railroads purchased their first diesels from several manufacturers, they tended to standardize with one builder for later purchases, in order to avoid having to stock too many different parts. For instance, the SP&S purchased early Baldwin and EMD switchers, but later became an Alco-only railroad, until the BN merger. WP was similar, in that they had a few Alco switchers, but everything else was EMD, until they purchased GE U28Bs and U23Bs. If you have a favorite locomotive type, then it might not be too hard to incorporate it into your roster. For instance, I like Baldwin RF-16s, but no railroad on the West Coast ran them. However, Baldwin did send a demo set to the Southern Pacific, who chose not to purchase them. My logic is that the Santiam Pacific (SMP) snapped them up at a reduced price when Baldwin offered them cheap to save the costs of shipping them back east. Since SMP also purchased other Baldwins, such as AS616s (I like these, too! ), they would be able to use similar parts. Most likely, the engines would be based on the west end of the railroad that I'm not modeling, so they won't show up very often on the section I am modeling. The most important thing to remember, is that this is YOUR railroad. You decided what you want to run, and then find a way to include it. Have fun, and good luck! Pat
I agree with studying the practices of a prototype. Either a favorite. Or those of a similar real company. Another aspect I wonder about, is developing the numbering system for your roster. I've looked at what Bruce Chubb and Allen McClelland did. That helps some. Another method is horsepower number. By that I mean units that are 1000 HP get numbers of 1xxx, units such as SD40-2 would be 3xxx, etc. Following along with what Brian develops, could make this a fun topic. Keep us posted on what you're thinking! Boxcab E50
I think it also depends on Era. For example, If you are running a modern era mid-size like say MRL or G&W or Railtex type shortline, you're going to be handling primarily hand me down units which means you can always justify a fw oddballs, but you're probably gonna be EMD heavy. Whereas if you're more in the early Diesel era, you are gonna have a much broader range of manufacturers. Another thing to think about is 6 axel vs. 4. most hand me down equipment seems to be 4 axel stuff with the occasional sd40/45/-2 in the mix. with exceptions like MRL and the former WC which ran a lot of 6 axle. As for numbering and how many , for numbering t's really a matter of preference as long as there is some logic to it. Admitedly, I haven't gotten as far as numbering in developing my roster. how many is a function of the amount of operations being done on the entire line and the power those operations need. to me, you need to develop a basic list of the jobs being done on the entire railroad on a typical day and add 10% In that, yyou would also want to adjust for HP. If you're railroad runs mainly SD-9s, then it's gonna take more units then if it runs sd40-2s.
When creating the Augsburg & Concord, I assumed that they would have gotten power units from the defunct line they replaced, or purchased it second hand. Since I model an area once traveled by the Chicago and Illinois Midland, I stuck with some SD units. The story then goes that they picked up a couple of second hand GE B23-7 demos from GE. These were quickly repainted and added to the roster. The switchers are old enough (SW1200 and RS3 to have come from almost anywhere. The difficult part is how to justify that SD70MAC that I just HAD to have. So, the Chicago & Northwestern will end up with one painted up in the lightning stripe scheme of the Dash 9's. Jeff Augsburg & Concord R.R. (a fictional shortline in Central Illinois) Come see us on the web: http://www.pegnsean.net/~revnjeff
You're all hitting on points I've wondered about... Pat: I'm trying to pattern my roster after roads that are similar to mine, namely the DT&I and D&H, as they are also two of my favorite lines. The two roads, however, seem to be polar opposites: the DT&I standardized on EMD Geeps and the D&H was all across the motive power spectrum. Right now I'm leaning towards a more D&H-ish roster. Boxcab: Already plan to use the horsepower rating system. Seems to be the most logical for me. YoHo: I'm trying to develop an all-time roster, so I'm looking at a continuing roster from the 1940s, when I'm saying they got their first diesels, to the present. I'm also trying to keep a mix of unit sizes. I'm planning on using 4-axle units for locals and high-speed service and 6-axle units for drag freights and unit trains. Jeff: Excellent thoughts on the justification for units. I've already done some of that in my head! ********** Gimmie another day of class to doodle in (What, you thought I took notes in class?!?!) and I'll post a tenative roster for you guys to pick apart. My railroad has a convulted history, and I think the roster should reflect that. Details tomorrow.
Wow!! Great topic. I never thought of developing a specific roster to run on my (future) layout. Just bought and modeled types I like or could afford that my favorite RR actually used at one time. Now I might just have to do some readjustments.
Incidently, if anyone has anything like this, I'd love to read it. This is a high level of detail that could add a whole nother demnsion to the hobby.
A few things spring to mind... Another thing to think on is the ownership of loco's. Early on loco's seemed to be bought by the railroad, but from the 70's on, most seem to have been leased on terms of 15 years or so. Certainly a couple of the western roads (Santa Fe and SP for a start) seem to have been buying power well after various other roads were leasing it, witness the Santa Fe's SD45/F45 fleet lasting into the 90's, far longer than any of the other original owners. BN's all headed off the property around their 15th birthday (mid 80's), whereas BN, ATSF, and BNSF are still running a surprisingly big fleet of GP7/GP9/SD9's! The leasing scenario also has possibilities if your road is into second hand power (and it doesn't have to be a shortline), for example Penn Central/Conrail had a vast fleet of GP38/GP40 which EMD reclaimed at the end of the leases, and sold on. One batch went to work for BN for example, so if you know of a batch of power coming off-lease at your favourite major railroad, you could build that in. You could also choose to remanufacture older units, or even buy remanufactured ones, like SP did, which may give you a fleet of SD40-2 based in older SD45/SD40 shells. Second hand power on major railroads seems to be a largely EMD thing though, re-using GE's or Alco's seems to be more of a shortline trait. The economy will also be a factor, in a recession you will be using less power, and if loco's go back to the lessor in the height of a recession, it will be tempting to not replace them straight away. On the other hand, during a boom, you will be wanting to extend the leases on things going off lease, and put off retiring older machines to keep things running. In terms of how to get started, most roads kicked off dieselisation with switchers and front line passenger power, so I think I would start working from there.
I developed a history for the Augsburg and Concord Railroad. This was actually done prior to any of the layout ever exisiting. At the time the history was done, the only layout that I had was a 12inch by 6 foot shelf layout. But, there were dreams... Check my web page for details...click on "History" Jeff Augsburg & Concord R.R. (a fictional shortline in Central Illinois) Come see us on the web: http://www.pegnsean.net/~revnjeff
As for numbering locomotives, if it is logical use it. I can give you a couple of examples of how some prototypes numbered theirs. CSX - There SD 70macs started in the 700 series. When the got the 80macs from Conrail they numbered them in the 800 series. When they purchased the AC6000's they began in the 600 series until they ran out of numbers and put the remaining in the 5000 series. Another local railroad, bought a few B-23-7's or U23B's and hand them numbered in the 2300 series for horsepower rating. They did this with a few other models as well. Then I read about a shortline that only had 3 or 4 locomotives. They numbered them for the month and year purchased. Feb 2001 = 201, March 99 was 399. Another railroad kept the prior owneres road number on it. It just goes to show you there is no correct way or incorrect way to number your lomotives. As for my railroad, it is jointly owned by two class ones, so you can see almost anything of Conrail or N&W Power on my layout. I am also thinking of moving up my era to more recent times. Therefore, NS will not exist. Wide body GE's in N&W paint hmmmm.
AJ- The Minneapolis & St.Louis RY numbered their diesels using the month/year method. When combined with their odd paint scheme practices, it made for a truly unique mix! Boxcab E50
Central Oregon & Pacific (CORP) uses GP38-2s and GP40-2s, and the numbers all begin in either 38-- or 40--. They're a Railtex company, so it's likely that other Railtex companies use the same system.
*GRRRRR* Would figgure I'd have a computer meltdown right in the middle of this thread. Oh well, gimmie a few more days to get this straightend out and I'll have more information for you.
I decided to use cast off WP locomotives for my short line. When the UP took over, they sold the GP’s and F units to my short line instead of donating them to museums. I also use a variation of the old WP silver and orange paint scheme for some of my engines that didn’t come from the WP. I also can use UP SD60’s on my grain trains and run through freights. The 4 axle units will work the small yard and branch line. As for numbering them, I will stick with the WP numbers and use the horse power like WP did for some of their engines. Do you think having a steamer and using it for excursions on weekends sounds too far fetched? I had the Ohio Central in mind when I thought of that. There are some nice steamers out there and I had to find a way to justify getting one. Greg
Of course! Every line should have a steam program! Don't forget the online RR museum to justify all your other purchases.
I'm trying to piece this together in the computer lab at school since my home computer isn't fully functioning yet... Hang with me if it doesn't all make sense at first... ********** Since the turn of the century, the Ironton Nothern has been a subsidiary of the New York Central lines. Consequently, motive power has followed NYC pratices, with a little of my own preference tossed in. The line purchased Alco S2 switchers right after World War II and dieselized its yards. Shortly after, road trains were dieselized with Alco RS-2 and RS-3 road switchers and FA2 road units. A few years later, EMD GP20s were added to supplant the roster. As a condition of the Penn Central merger of 1970 the NYC was required to sell its interest in the INNR. Somehow, the Erie-Lackawanna scraped together the cash to purchase a controling interest in the line and quickly extended its control to the roster. The E-L immediately transferred some of its FM H24-66 "Trainmasters" to the line for road service to replace the aging Alco units from the NYC era. With the collapse of Northeast railroading and the creation of Conrail in the early and mid-'70s, the INNR was designated as a compeditor to Conrail by the USRA, much in the same way the D&H was farther east. Consequently, in 1976 the INNR recieved a cash infusion from Uncle Sam including some Alco C628's and nearly brand new GP39-2's from the Reading and Lehigh Valley. In the meantime, the line also rebuilt some of its older power to extend its useful life. The Alco road switchers were rebuilt as yard slugs and mated with also rebuilt and deturbocharged GP20s for yard work. The Trainmasters were also rebuilt as road slugs (like the N&W did) and mated with the new Alco Century units for heavy road work. Moving into the 80s the INNR saw an increase in traffic and sought to modernize its roster to keep up with the times. Five new GE B40-8's were added, as were more rebuilt Geeps, this time surplus GP38s from Chessie and GP40s from Conrail, for the road pool. Moving into the late '90s, the last of the Alco Centuries were replaced with ex-BN C30-7s and the yard power was replaced with some of the oldest road Geeps.
Brian, I believe the D&H had primarily an Alco engine fleet, based on the fact that Alco was an online customer, and D&H wanted their traffic! They did have a few oddballs, such as a couple ex-NYC Sharknoses, and a few GEs and EMDs purchased after Alco shut down in 1969; but most of their fleet was Alco. DT&I purchased mostly EMD, based on the dependability of the EMD engine design. I've read how engineers running trains up the Oregon Trunk really preferred Alco FAs pulling trains up the hill, since they could run in the red zone for quite a while, and EMDs tended to shut down sooner. Of course, this meant a lot more maintenance was required on the Alcos, which is why the mechanical departments of most railroads preferred EMDs. If I can find my document, maybe I'll post my history of my own Santiam Pacific Railroad that I've created, though it is kinda long... Pat
Exactly my point, while one standardized on one builder the other purchased whatever was available at the time. How many other lines in the late '70s could you find power from four builders running together?!?! Of course, the DT&I was just cool unto itself.
