Motor Question

Hey everyone,
I picked up a Rivarossi 2-8-8-0 a while back from Ebay.
I bought it "as is" and the seller made it clear that it wasnt in the best condition.

When I recieved it, it was actually better than I was expecting.
Its an older model (came in an "AHM" box).

Heres my question. It runs forward ok, but it runs backwards much better.
Running forward, the motor smells hot after just a few moments and takes more throttle to move forward than backwards.
Now, running it backwards, the motor starts to move earlier in the throttle and seems to run smoother.

Could this be from the previous owner always running it forward and has simply warn out the motor in the forward direction?
Is there any way to correct this (without replacing the motor)?

Just curious,
Thanks for any replies.
Rich.

[ 26. August 2003, 16:33: Message edited by: DieselDaze ]

 

Hi Rich.
Wish I could help you on this but I don't have a clue. I have 2 Bachman Northern 4-8-4's, One runs real good, the other one runs in fits and starts and is real noisy. I have taken both of them apart, cleaned up all the parts, reasembled them, oil and grease, but still made no improvement in the one. I'll keep an eye on this thread and maybe somebody will have a remedy for both of us

 

I have not had it apart yet.
Ive oiled everything I can see without taking the shell off.

Gear binding is a possibility.
Im still under the impression that the previous owner just ran this forward all the time. All moving parts (including gearing) have been worn in only one direction.
Thus, when ran backwards, its almost new.

Ive also considered replacing the motor as a test.
If the new motor makes it run well, then Ive found my problem.
If not, then its probably the gearing.

I'll see if I can get another motor in there this weekend.

Thanks
Rich.

 

Rich,
I have 6 of the old AHM/Rivarossi Y6b, EL-5's an I'll be the first to say they have been known to have "motor" trouble! I own my own repair shop for the hobby, anything from N scale to G scale. I will say, the previous owner probably had the loco apart (I have seen this many many times) that they had lost the gear box shims, these are sleaves that go over the worm gear shaft an once they are missing it leaves the worm gear to move from front to back in a dirrection change thus causing alot of wear on the gear boxes! If you can get a shim sleave to replace it if they are missing I would do so! I took gear boxes I have replaced for customers with new gear box, an kept the old ones an got to looking at them an this is the main cause for the problem your having.

In time this problem will result in over working the motor thus burning out a brush. NOW, the Rivarossi motors only have ONE real true brush in them! The other is a brass screen type thing! So, you will have to replace that plus the spring as well, an if you can get the brushes for this motor I would suggest getting 2 brushes to replace that screen representation. So it has 2 real true brushes in it. This will greatly improve the pulling power of the loco. Which I think is what your smelling, that real brush is getting hot, an if your not carefull will over heat the whole motor an possibly melt your loco's cab! So be carefull!

In any case an the motor is the problem once you shim the gear box (if thats what it needs) an or if thats all ok, an the motors the problem, you will have to remotor it if you can't get the motor brushes an brush springs! Remember, if you replace the brushes, make SURE you replace the springs too. This is a basic motor tune up procedure! But if you can't get the parts for the motor your only other alternative is to re-motor the loco! Every old AHM/Rivarossi loco I own has a new can motor in them! As I don't even mess with the older Rivarossi motors, I rebuild them as long as I can get the parts, an then sell the motors! And I will be selling replacement motors here dirrectly... As I'm working on a deal with a few companies with different motors (different motor in size for different size of loco)

I'm also re-motoring Mantua steamers too with a good can motor! Altho I have to make a custom mount for the motor to sit at an angle to mate the worm gear to the axle gear, but they out run those open frame Mantua DC-71 motors!

[ 27. August 2003, 10:02: Message edited by: 7600EM_1 ]

 

Dick, Bowser offers a re-powering kit for these loco's! Its $69 for it but it includes a better motor, drivers, frame etc all the parts needed to make it a good running loco, the only thing you need from the Bachmann loco is the boiler, cylinder, an valve gear.

The conecting rods are supplied by Bowser, an also extra weight for in the loco's that are retro-fitted with these kits.... But it all has to be assembled.

As for the loco tho, any chance of it having a separate motor inside? And not having the motor between the frame. I can't recall how these loco's were made! If they have a transfer box, with a coupling to it from the motor I may be able to help you make that thing run in any case!

[ 27. August 2003, 10:10: Message edited by: 7600EM_1 ]

 

Thanks for that great info.
I saw that mesh (or screen) that your refering to instead of a brush. I thought it was strange, but that wasnt my focus at the time.
(You can see the end of the mesh on the back of the motor).
I'll take the shell off this weekend (time willing) and see if what the gear boxes look like.
I may go ahead and re motor this unit anyway... I guess I'll know for sure once I see the condition of the current motor and the availability of parts.
it'll also be a good time to oil everything I couldnt get to before.

Thanks again for the info!

Rich.

 

Rich,
Your more then welcome, However I will tell you upfront, so will others, that getting replacement parts for the motor may be difficult! You can contact IHC to see whats avallible...As they are the "new" AHM, just....renamed. And look for the prices for the parts to be slightly steep. Nothing Rivarossi made was cheap to buy not even the parts. And not so much the cost that got me to go an use my own motor of choice, but was power, an all, the original motors (new ones) aren't as powerfull as I wished them to be from being new even. Plus, the stuff is hard to get (if they even have it anymore in stock)...

 

Thanks for the warning.
I have a spare motor (not AHM or Rivarossi).
Perhaps I will try to mount that motor in there this weekend.

Thanks agian for the advice.

Rich.

 

Hi Guys,
As my first post here, I hope maybe I can shed a little light.

First, since I didn't see it mentioned in any of the posts, Golf Manor Hobbies in Ohio is the 'official' (even Walthers will send you to them) source of AHM/Rivarossi parts - their site says they have parts going back 20 years. If anyone has your motor parts, they do.
http://www.golfmanorhobbies.com/pages/specialtieslist.html .
If everyone knew that and I'm just being an idiot, I apologize

2nd, I'm a big fan of those Bachmann Northerns, although they frustrate me to death sometimes (like the one I'm working on now - valve gear has me stumped beyond belief).

There were basically 2 versions - the old white boxed ones had the sidewinder/pancake/junk motor in them, and round axle holes. These aren't worth fixing or messing with, but are good candidates for the Bowser kits as the shells are very detailed.
I have a brass PFM/United ATSF #2903 and putting it side by side with a Bachmann shell, they match rivet for rivet.

Next, the newer gray boxed 'Plus' line has can motors with brass worm that's big and heavy enough to kind of have a little flywheel effect, and square axle 'holes' to prevent the slipping encountered with the older engines. These use a gear housed in the frame that contacts the worm on top, and the 3rd driver gear on bottom to propel the loco right off the table..I mean down the track . These can be worth fixing and tweaking.

The 'Plus' line became the current 'Standard' line of which the Niagara and the GS4 Daylight are the only locos that remain and are built as described above. So motors, axles and gears should still be available.
A source of older Bachmann parts like shells and valve gear and drivers is:
http://www.traindoctor.com/Service/HO/bachmann.asp .
Haven't dealt with them yet, but may be soon.

Now, giving that info, I need some help myself.
I need a model loco valve gear expert and I need to find out if anyone knows anyone who might scratch (or custom) build a car for me that no manufacturer makes.
Scracth building is something I've never undertaken and would rather have someone who knows what they're doing do it for me.

Thanks for your time,

Mike

P.S. John, you'd mentioned you couldn't remember how the Northerns were made. I have a text page on my website that describes installing a decoder in a GS4. Most of the instructions are on destruct...I mean disassembling the loco - the same instructions will work for any Bachmann Northern as they're all basically the same 'under the hood'. You and anyone is welcome to print them out and use them if they are helpful at all. The site is: http://web.theinter.com/~wolfy_is/GS4DCC.html
When you're done there, follow the link back to my main train page - you'll see some nice old AHM/Rivarossi there as well as some brand new ones.

 

Mike,
I'm a custom builder my friend. I can do your scratchbuilds an such, all you need to do is contact me (e-mail address in my singature) an we'll discuss it an see what your wanting made... Hope to hear from ya!

 

John,
I sent you an email that came back to me. I assume it's because of the pics I attached that may have overloaded your hotmail account (I think the basic account gives you only 2MB - once that's full, everything else bounces back). So I stripped the pics out and tried sending just the text again. Let me know if you get it. If not, I'll just post the text and the pics right here - may be easier to do it that way anyway.

Mike

 

Mike,
Nope, I got it, read it, an replied, wirth a way to mail those pics to me with another shop address I use speciafically for large files for this type thing, its all in my reply to you! Let me know your thoughts, ideas an such with a reply to my message back to you....