Okay... you woo'ed me... sold me... NOW???

Kitbash Jul 21, 2002

  1. Kitbash

    Kitbash TrainBoard Supporter

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    Back in May I posted that I was contemplating changing my DC block maze over to DCC.... and I THANK each and everyone of you that offered your sincere opinions on the subject.

    I have decided to purchase (SOON) a DCC system. After looking at all the booty and goodies out there, I am going w/ the New Super Empire starter set. I will probably upgrade to infra-red and get one extra throttle.

    I am the classic "lone wolf" modeler that does not have operating sessions (Something I should change). I feel for now two throttles are adequate.

    I wish I had a website to post pictures of my layout. Anyway.. it is a 23 foot long dogbone that bows out to 5 feet at each end of the dogbone. It runs mostly in my "rec room" with about 7 feet or so bleeding over into the computer room. It has (or will have) two reversing loops. I do have an interchange track. The C&O (Freelance division) is the main kahuna/star of the show with interchange acting as an excuse to bring in several Virginian or NYC consists. (Perfectly prototypical of the C&O).

    I believe the Super Empire to be best starter set that will allow me to grow in operation and yet not be TOO big or complicated for a layout that may get a little bigger, BUT I DO NOT plan NOR WANT an eventual clubsize layout in my basement. Therefore, I have eliminated the Super Chief.

    On the otherhand... I want something a little more challenging and offering more features than the Zephyr starter set.

    So???? What do you guys/gals think? Anyway... I will probably purchase the set this week or next from a local dealer that specializes in setting up DCC systems and working w/ layout owners on getting started in the systems.

    NOW.... I am off to research the wild world of decoders!!!! ;)

    -Kitbash
     
  2. ncng

    ncng TrainBoard Member

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    Congratulations on making the decision. That is the hardest part. There are several limitations to the Empire Builder that made me choose the Chief (CV readback + 100 plus locomotive slots). If you find you need these you can always just swap command stations later. No other change needed. There is always a market for the old command station or you can use it for a booster.

    When you start looking at decoders remember you don't have to buy Digitrax. That is a mistake I hear frequently, 'I bought a Digitrax command station so what Digitrax decoder do I need?' I personnally prefer the NCE decoders for cost and performance reasons. However, Digitrax has recently come out with a new decoder (DH163) that sounds pretty good. Check out Tony's Train Exchange website http://www.ttx-dcc.com to compare just about every decoder available.

    David
     
  3. Pete

    Pete TrainBoard Member

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    Congrats, Kitbash! I too have an Empire Builder and it ROCKS! Wish I could see the look on your face when you stage your first meet, or you add your first helpers up the grade, or setting up your first mars light, or watching your trains run through a reverse loop by themselves. Lot's of great firsts, and wow's! It's seriously too much fun! [​IMG]
     
  4. Kitbash

    Kitbash TrainBoard Supporter

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    Well... I did it. Picked up my DCC system at lunch today from the dealer. Even got a little demo on his layout. I stuck w/ the Digitrax.

    Got the Super Empire Set w/ the DT400 mega throttle. I also got 3 decoders to get me started. One for one of my 2-8-0 steamers and a set of decoders for my RS-1 Atlas (2) engines that I always run lashed together.

    Guess what I will be doing this weekend!!!!

    I have been sitting in my office glancing at the two technical manuals that came w/ the set!

    :eek: :eek: :eek:
     
  5. cthippo

    cthippo TrainBoard Member

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    Don't panic when you read the Dixitrax manuals. In all my years as a geek I've seen a lot of bad documentation, but that was just about the worst. Only Lucent phone systems are worse. The Digitrax system, especially with the DT400 is pretty easy to use, it just takes some getting used to. Feel free to post any questions and we'll be glad to help.
     
  6. ajy6b

    ajy6b TrainBoard Member

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    Most DCC manuals are pretty bad. I have NCE myself and I have to admit that it wasn't as bad as others I have seen. But if you really want your head to spin join one of the yahoo.groups related to a specific brand of DCC. I belong to the NCE group and I sometimes get to thinking: Do these guys have a life? [​IMG]

    The best thing to remember about DCC, it is an acquired taste, sort of like beer. Or to put it in railroad terms, remember when you bought your first trainset and then got more serious about this. You survived and you will survive DCC :D
     
  7. Kitbash

    Kitbash TrainBoard Supporter

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    Well... manual or no manual. I have purchased 6 decoders in the last week, and have installed 4.

    I LOVE IT!!!!!

    My first impression about DCC is that DC Block wiring is stone age. As one that had taken the time set up a 3 cab, block system with all the trimmings, I was scared and reluctant to switch to DCC.

    Gaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawd I am glad I did.

    I really like the Digitrax Super Empire system I purchased. It is great. PERFECT for my layout. There are some things I have to learn as far as advanced or custom programming.. but the basics I have down. Plus.. putting in plug-play decoders is a snoozer. I have several engines that I have to hardwire, but after putting the plug-in jobs.. and a few harness connected decoders..I am ready.

    I have had no snafu's w/ turnouts... shorts...etc. Seems that what is good, sensible practice in DC track construction suits DCC just fine. In otherwords, this has been an almost seamless transition.

    This is good stuff. Hats off to Digitrax for an excellent product..... tech-geek manual notwithstanding.... it is good stuff.

    -Kitbash
     
  8. Pete

    Pete TrainBoard Member

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    Way to go Kitbash!! [​IMG] I hate to say we told you so, but... [​IMG] he-he! You will be an inspiration to many model railroaders apprehensive of making the switch. The sooner we can get people out of the stone-age, the sooner the hobby will progress, and the sooner even better things will come along!
     
  9. Biggerhammer

    Biggerhammer TrainBoard Member

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    Here's a question for you all-

    I'm currently layoutless. I plan to start collecting N-scale and creating a modular layout (I move frequently). DCC sounds like the best thing since flex-track was invented. So, when I build these modules, what do I have to do (if anything) to make them easier/better for DCC?

    Also, what does a kit like the one you're discussing cost, roughly?

    Thank you all for sharing your time, stories and advice.
     
  10. ncng

    ncng TrainBoard Member

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    The main thing you need to do is make sure that your wiring and any plugs between modules can handle the amperage of DCC without inducing a drop in voltage. The recommended buss wire size is #12. Also, it is recommended that you have a power feed to the track buss every 3'-6' (1-2 m). I personally have a feed to every piece of track no matter how short it is. Don't rely on rail joiners for power. Another thing is to modify your turnouts to make them more DCC friendly before you install them on the layout. By "friendly" I mean electrically tie the point rails to the stock rails and put a gap in each of the point rails before the frog. Don't use the points to power route. This isn't a good idea even with regular blocks control.

    As far as cost goes, it ranges from $160 USD for a Digitrax Zephyr to $500 USD for a Digitrax Super Chief Radio. These prices are from Tony's Train Exchange http://www.ttx-dcc.com. They carry just about every brand of DCC and are good for price comparison.
     
  11. gAt

    gAt New Member

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    David.... Who is DCE( decoders) ??? [​IMG]
     
  12. Kitbash

    Kitbash TrainBoard Supporter

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    Bighammer: Yes.. DCC is the best thing since Flex track.

    I paid 280+ tax for my DIGITRAX Super Empire Set. There are sets lower from Digitrax like the ZEPHYR mentioned above.

    My feeling is... do NOT cut yourself short. You get what you pay for. I am so darned glad I got a DIGITRAX. I love the thing. It is daggon versitile it isnt funny. Plus, I have called the DIGITRAX place in Norcross, GA with a couple of questions and they ... can you believe this.. ACTUALLY listen to my question and let it soak in before they belt out a response. It is as if they REALLY WANT to help! Can you imagine that?

    They are great and very customer oriented.

    I almost purchased a less expensive set just to save a few pennies and I am glad I didnt.

    As for ways to set your layout up... I recommend purchasing DIGITRAX's "Big Book of DCC" available from dealers or thier website. PLUS... you can visit:

    Loys Toys @
    http://www.loystoys.com

    or Tony's Train Exchange @ http://www.dcctrains.com/

    They usually have some good info' on the subject.

    GOOD LUCK!!!

    -Kitbash
     
  13. Gary Lewis

    Gary Lewis Deleted

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    I glad all you guys like your DCC so much, some of you "better than a wife" [​IMG] so I'll stick with straight DC at this stage.

    You all must also be quite wealthy, judging by your engine rosters, to afford to equip them all with decoders.

    Personally, I think it would be pretty stupid for me to spend $5000 :eek: putting decoders in all of my engines, so I can run two of them at different speeds and directions at the same time.

    However, to each his own. :D
     
  14. Kitbash

    Kitbash TrainBoard Supporter

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    Dang Gary. Let's see... $5000 bucks to equip your loco's w/ decoders.. that's (1, carry the 2... goes into about 6.. ummmmm)

    That's somewhere between 150 and 160 loco's you must have! [​IMG] You can CERTAINLY afford DCC if you can afford that many loco's!!!!!!! ;)

    No seriously, I have equipped 8 of my 30 loco's sofar w/ DCC and have spent about $190 to do so. Been worth every penny.
     
  15. Bill Kamery

    Bill Kamery TrainBoard Member

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    I agree with Gary, except make that $100.
     
  16. Pete

    Pete TrainBoard Member

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    Hey Gary, sounds like you may be a lone wolf. I am too, but running trains prototypically without the headaches of flipping block switches is sheer joy. I know if I were entrenched in DC with 200 locos, the changeover would seem daunting. I would suggest doing just a few at a time, and with 150-200 locos, I'm sure many are contiually in the same consist. For the trailing units, you could use the inexpensive 2 function decoders. I believe they can be had for not much more than $10 ea. in bulk. From your statement, it sounds like you operate alone, maybe just run trains around a mainline. $5,000 to convert might seem like a lot (I'm sure it would not be that even for 200 locos) but 200 locos for simply running around a mainline operating alone, might seem excessive to some too. (Not to me, though!!) But, as you said, to each his own. We are just saying it's worth the effort, and you are depriving yourself of the greatest thing to ever happen to model railroading. Money and fear keep people away from some of the greatest joys in life. You only live once. Ya gotta go for it.
     
  17. Gary Lewis

    Gary Lewis Deleted

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    Kitbash, I only have 66 engines, 36 are steamers and I couldn't get decoders in any of my steamer chassis and I don't like the idea of a wad of cables running between the engine and the tender. I couldn't put decoders in most of the diesels unless I started milling out the diesel frames. Diesels like RS3s, F3s, SW9/1200s, GP9s and 7s and C-Liners which are the diesels the CNR used prior to 1960, the era I'm modeling.

    The $5000 reflects the cost of decoders in Canada, and that's not including all the other stuff you need to buy make those decoders work. I'm refering to a Swiss or Austrian DCC system called ZIMO, which would be the one I would use if I lost my sanity and went DCC. That DCC operating system basic controller cost $1400 in Canada without decoders. :eek:
     
  18. Gary Lewis

    Gary Lewis Deleted

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    Thanks for the support Bill, now there are two of us. :D

    A lot of these DCC guys are modern era modellers and run all the newer diesels that come decoder ready or equiped. Although on some of the new steamers a deoder can be shoehorned in under the engine shell.

    However I would like to see them try to put a decoder in an F3 of which I have 6As and 6 Bs.

    How about milling out the chassis of 15 or so RS3s, GP7s and 9s and three SW9/1200s. No thank you.

    My system will operate on two straight DC MRC control master 20 walkarounds, one powering the switchard and the other powering the outside round the room track. I only feel comfortable operating two engines at the same time. because I DO operate alone.

    I can buy a lot of new steam engines, rolling stock, and Kato Unitrack for $5000. : [​IMG]
     
  19. Bill Kamery

    Bill Kamery TrainBoard Member

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    Gary - I spend my days dealing with real-time embedded software, i.e. trying to get this kind of s**t to work. I definitely don't need it in my hobby!
     
  20. Kitbash

    Kitbash TrainBoard Supporter

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    Gary... I hear ya man. It took me a while to convert. I too am running older model diesels like RS1's, F7's, AS616's, Geep 7's and 9's, and so on. Model the C&O from 1948 to around early '56 so I can justify running 1st generation diesels and classic era-ending steam units.

    Anyway... good for you. The important thing is that you model. DC is more than fine it sounds like in your situation. Larger than operation, rosters, DC vs DCC, rivet counting, yadda, yadda is that veteran modelers keep doing what makes them happy. My opinion is that is what brings new blood to the hobby more than anything else out there.

    Granted you are a lone wolf modeler and operator (as am I), the important thing is to have some young-un or novice over from time to time and get em hooked!

    Were I in your situation with pricing as you describe, I may not have made the jump either. However, that is academic. Just do your thing and have a blast!

    Post some pictures of your layout sometime!

    Good luck......

    -Kitbash
     

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