Union Pacific's N Scale Canyon Division....

Sumner May 6, 2022

  1. Sumner

    Sumner TrainBoard Member

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    I decided that maybe I should be posting this layout build here. If not please move it....

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    Elevator Build Part 2
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    This page is the start of the exterior box of the elevator that will be stationary and eventually be connected to the rest of the layout's framework. I didn't finish this before going on vacation. I'll finish it up and post about it after returning home.

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    Above is a YouTube video on how the different sections work.

    To be continued at the end of vacation ......

    A link to this build on my site and the main menu for it ( HERE ).

    Sumner
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2022
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  2. gmorider

    gmorider TrainBoard Member

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  3. Sumner

    Sumner TrainBoard Member

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    Part 3 of Elevator Build....

    After returning home I spent a day on finishing up most of the exterior box minus the two movable interior walls..

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    What is shown above will make more sense once the movable interior walls are built on the next page.

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    The three horizontal boards on the backside are to help stiffen that side and keep it straight. I felt the end was fine since it is much shorter.

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    When finished and installed in this area of the layout the track surface in the down position will be the same as the track surface of the layout's lower level.

    To be continued ......

    Whole build index on my site here...

    https://1fatgmc.com/RailRoad/UP Canyon Division/UP Canyon Division-Index.html

    Sumner
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2022
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  4. gmorider

    gmorider TrainBoard Member

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    Wow!
     
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  5. Sumner

    Sumner TrainBoard Member

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    Part 4 of Elevator Build:

    Got the elevator to the point I could test it to see if I think I can make it work. I'm happy with the results and think that once installed and with some locators at the top and bottom of the travel I think it has a pretty good chance of working how I hoped it would work. Here are three videos from today that I took after finishing the long movable wall. Installed both walls and the elevator with everything on its side. Once the moveable walls were adjusted and clamped into place (screws will secure them later) I tested for side to side slop and was happy with the results....



    The elevator runs in and out pretty much like a drawer that has little slop in it.

    Next I tested it vertically ....



    ... and was happy with the results.

    Then it was on to the test of a way to raise and lower it. I spend a lot of time laying awake at 3 in the morning so considered a number of options to raise and lower the elevator during those 'think' periods. I wanted something that was low tech, reliable and easy to implement. I really like the way my turnout 'Gravity Switchers' work so decided to try something similar. Basically the elevator is held in the down position by its weight. It is raised by a counter weight, in this case a bucket that has a brick and a gallon or so of water in at all times. Pump another couple gallons into the bucket and it raises the elevator. Pump that water out and the elevator lowers ......



    ... The amount of static weight (brick and water) that is in the bucket determines how hard the elevator will be against the top and bottom stops (not show at this stage). How fast one pumps the water in or out of the bucket will determine how fast it raises or lowers. I have some bilge pumps from my boat days but seeing how it only takes a couple gallons they would be way faster than is needed and require 6 amps at 12 volts. They can do 2 gallons in seconds. I have a 110v fountain pump or two and they are cheap so think I'll try them once I move along.

    I have another break in action with family stuff for about a week but I'll try and post by Thursday or so the rest of the build pictures for the moveable walls and the other items I didn't post yet to get to the point of where the videos above were posted.

    Complete build index here....

    https://1fatgmc.com/RailRoad/UP Canyon Division/UP Canyon Division-Index.html

    Sumner
     
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  6. Shortround

    Shortround TrainBoard Member

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    That counter weight system is very interesting. The only other one I've seen used threaded rods driven by two electric motors. Mush the same as the system to operate the snow plow on my little tractor in place of hydraulics.
    Best wishes.
     
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  7. Sumner

    Sumner TrainBoard Member

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    Build Track Elevator Part 4:

    NOTE: More about the track elevator on the first page of the build ( HERE ). If you haven't read about it the following will make more sense if you go back and take a couple minutes to see how I hope it works.

    This page shows the building of the two movable walls inside the box enclosure. They have been used as it would have been hard to build the box to tight tolerances where the elevator just fit inside the box with the rollers right up against all four walls. In this design 2 of the four walls are fixed and the two walls opposite them can move in and out. With the elevator in the box and up against the fixed walls the movable walls can be pushed snug against the rollers for a close wit with no slop as the elevator goes up and down.

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    The elevator rollers will ride up and down the particle board which is smoother than the CDX plywood.

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    To be continued ......

    Index for the complete build here ....

    https://1fatgmc.com/RailRoad/UP Canyon Division/UP Canyon Division-Index.html

    Sumner
     
  8. Sumner

    Sumner TrainBoard Member

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    Build Track Elevator -- Part 5:

    Time to put the elevator together and do a trial run to see if this has been a waste of time or if I feel it is worth continuing on.

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    The enclosure/box was laid on its side and the elevator was installed. The elevator was moved over to where the rollers on its left end (as shown above) were against the fixed wall on that end. Then I move the movable wall on the right side snugly up against the elevator and clamped it in place temporarily with the 'C'-clamps.

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    The elevator was pushed in and out to test for fit and the wall adjusted slightly with the clamps on the top and bottom shelves. Then the movable wall on the top (as shown above) was dropped onto the elevator rollers on that side and clamped and then adjusted slightly.

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    With the box and elevator in this position it was tested further as seen in the video above or ( HERE ). I wanted the elevator to move freely but without too much slop side to side or up and down.

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    Next the box and elevator were rotated vertically into the position they will be in when all of this is installed in the layout.

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    Again the elevator was tested up and down. I was happy with the fit so no further adjustments were made at this time. The clamps will be replaced with screws to hold the movable walls in place.

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    Above and ( HERE ) is a video of testing it this way.

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    Up next was the 'water test'. I needed to build a bracket for two pulleys and it is show above attached to a piece of plywood I use as a work bench on the car lift. After it was completed I turned the plywood and bracket/pulleys over and raised them up above the box and elevator. On the layout this bracket with the pulleys will be located just above the elevator in its 'Up Position'. The elevator will either be exposed behind a backdrop or possibly disguised as a mountain or part of one.

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    I spend a lot of time laying awake at 3 in the morning so considered a number of options to raise and lower the elevator during those 'think' periods. I wanted something that was low tech, reliable and easy to implement. I really like the way My 'Turnout Gravity Switchers' work so decided to try something similar. Basically the elevator is held in the down position by its weight. It is raised by a counterweight, in this case a bucket that has a brick and a gallon or so of water in at all times. Pump another couple gallons into the bucket and drops and raises the elevator. Pump that water out and the elevator lowers.

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    Above I dumped a couple gallons of water in the counterweight bucket and it went down and the elevator raised up to about where it will be after I install some stops.

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    Above or ( HERE ) you can see a video of the elevator being tested.

    In use there will be a small pump in each bucket. Pump water into the counterweight bucket and it will descend and pull the elevator up. Pump water back into the stationary bucket and the elevator will descend. The stationary bucket for the test had one brick and a little over a gallon of water in it. Once the track is added to the top of the elevator more weight will be added.

    The amount of weight in the bucket will determine how hard the elevator is against its bottom stop. Likewise the more water that is put in the bucket attached to the elevator will determine how hard it is against the top stop. How fast it raises or lowers will depend on how fast the water is pumped between one bucket and the other.

    I had two 200 gph cheap fountain pumps on hand so tried one with the elevator and buckets setup as shown above. The fountain pump pumped water fast enough that it would raise or lower the elevator in 40-55 seconds. Not sure how fast I want to have it move between levels. I have a couple bilge pumps from my boat days that would probably cut the speed down to 6-10 seconds in either direction but don't want it to be that fast. I'll wait to it is all installed and working before I make up my mind on the pumps now that I know it works at this stage.

    It moves up and down without much side to side movement at all but I plan on having pins or some other means to locate it very accurately at both ends of the travel so that the in/out tracks line up well and might also use my '3D Rerailers'.

    I have about 20 hours into the elevator to this point.

    Index to the whole build to this point here .....

    https://1fatgmc.com/RailRoad/UP%20Canyon%20Division/UP%20Canyon%20Division-Index.html

    Sumner
     
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  9. gmorider

    gmorider TrainBoard Member

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    Very admirable job.
     
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  10. Shortround

    Shortround TrainBoard Member

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    It's real interesting. Will you be applying a sealing finish? Thin and light.
    Have you considered aquarium pumps to transfer the water.
    Thanks for sharing the progress. (y)
     
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  11. Sumner

    Sumner TrainBoard Member

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    Thanks for the input. Probably won't seal the wood considering where we live and it is indoors. It is really dry here with humidity under 10% in the summer and not high in the winter. I have bare metal in the shop that is up to 20 years old and no rust on it at all. Even outside things don't rust right away. Same situation with lumber I've had for a long time indoors.

    I'll look into the aquarium pumps but wonder if they will pump enough. The two 200 GPH pumps I have might work using the two at the same time in the fixed bucket and a larger one in the bucket that lifts the elevator. With one 200 GPH (3 GPM) it is taking about 50 seconds to cycle up or down and I might want to get that down to maybe around 30 seconds or less. One of the reasons for trying this was so I didn't have to wait for the train to climb 12 inches in elevation, about 50-60 feet of track, to move from one elevation to the other. I won't buy anymore pumps until I know it all is going to work smoothly.

    Sumner
     
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  12. Mike C

    Mike C TrainBoard Member

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  13. sidney

    sidney TrainBoard Member

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    sumner why not use a stepper motor or a motor and a couple all thread screws two all thread bolts with belt drive gearing or bicycle chain type gearing . something like that
     
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  14. Shortround

    Shortround TrainBoard Member

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    15 years ago I did see one set up with the screw drives. It would bind a lot of times. It may have been the lift getting out of alignment and the screws bound up. I like Sumner's way better. Less chance for binding.
     
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  15. Sumner

    Sumner TrainBoard Member

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    Yes what Richard said. I'd of course considered those options as others have used them. I was looking for a solution, if it works, that wouldn't require an electronics degree to implement and also would be less expensive to implement. This is pretty simple with two pumps in the water and two switches to turn them on off.

    I'll probably end up with trying to automate it with an Arduino to control track voltage on/off on the approaches and elevator and pumps on/off but that will require more parts and programming the Arduino which would turn a lot of people off. As it is none of that is required if you operate the two pump switches.

    I could see where the woodworking part of this might turn some off, but I'm thinking it could really be simplified after getting it to this point.

    Sumner
     
  16. BigJake

    BigJake TrainBoard Member

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    Interesting solution... Since you live in a dry climate, I would put lids on the buckets to reduce/eliminate evaporation, and an algae inhibitor in the water (and perhaps antifreeze?) for a permanent(ish) solution.

    Now you just need a tall smokestack to disguise the rope ascending from the elevator. Or you could create one of those tornado scenes, with the rope ascending through the middle of the funnel cloud!

    Lot's of ways to skin this cat, but I sure would not have thought of this way! This reminds me of the thread elsewhere on this board about modeling a lock on an old canal, but this includes an active, functional role to play.
     
  17. Sumner

    Sumner TrainBoard Member

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    :):) If I need antifreeze I'm in big trouble ;);).

    I'll have to think about modeling an active tornado:sneaky:.

    On the layout the pulleys will just clear the top of the elevator when it is up. Not sure if I'll try and make a large mountain or just partition the whole thing off. Probably do that at first as I have so much else to do and realize this won't ever be a completed layout. Get done with what I can,

    Sumner
     
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  18. Shortround

    Shortround TrainBoard Member

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    Get it functioning first. Then just conceal it with back ground seeing it's not something usual. How about Pool Shock for the water treatment.
     
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  19. gmorider

    gmorider TrainBoard Member

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    Fyi. I used to do some hydroponic vegetables a few years ago. The high efficiency pumps did a good job but were slower the higher the water needed to be lifted. They also used a magnetic impeller if I remember correctly. I still have them stored away.
     
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  20. BigJake

    BigJake TrainBoard Member

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    Interesting idea...
     
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