Kato Double crossover Stutters ONLY on one Route or Path

Mark Ricci Apr 24, 2021

  1. EsK

    EsK TrainBoard Member

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    Hello folks,
    I am struck with similar desperation - BLI locomotives & Kato double crossovers!

    I have 4 of the BLI EMD SD70ACe and 3 out of 4 have the exact same stuttering problem on the Kato double crossovers when they have to cross over to the left side in the direction of travel. I have 2 double cross overs and because this issue comes up only with BLI engines and at the same place on both the cross overs, after Mark's experience, I guess that the problem is with the BLI engines, not the crossovers.
    Due to adequate speed, the engines don't completely stall, they recover on their own and move on.

    I communicated with BLI and they had me clean the truck contacts, lubricate the axles etc but nothing worked, so they asked me to send the engines over to them. Have sent one to see what happens.

    Am attaching a couple of pics. Maybe Mark or others can help with advice if I can sort out the issue without having to ship them to BLI. They take 12 weeks to send them back!

    Any help appreciated, thanks in advance.
    Krish
     

    Attached Files:

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  2. mtntrainman

    mtntrainman TrainBoard Supporter

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    Wondering...is BLI trying to reinvent the wheel ?? o_O:rolleyes:
     
  3. Mark Ricci

    Mark Ricci TrainBoard Member

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    Only have done brief research on driving d-crossover with DS64 or switch-Kats going to wait a bit to allow for some more study so bought MOM ON DPDT toggles as an interim solution so I'm starting out doing the same as you. But at some point I'll really need to have them work under DCC. Had DC option but no longer have DC loco's but would have continued doing the same there too.

    Have to ask, do you have any atlas n scale CNJ caboose?
     
  4. Mark Ricci

    Mark Ricci TrainBoard Member

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    Oh yes, same experience. The thing that I believe was the major contributing factor for the great performance increase was making contacts even, after cleaning with CRC and by slightly bending the 4 contacts slightly away from the chassis thus creating firmer "contact". See page 5 of this thread. Posted a couple of pics and a little bit better explanation of what was performed. Don't have documented evidence but its been said that these contact points are prone to issue however my brand new Atlas SD35 has same problem with D crossover and the BLI F3 currently puts it to shame.

    1 other variable, the trucks were exchange parts can't say what if anything they used my original trucks but the wheels are not new.
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2021
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  5. Hardcoaler

    Hardcoaler TrainBoard Member

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    I do not. I missed out on these when my old layout fell into disuse and my interest in modeling waned. I bid for one on eBay a year or two ago, but quit when pricing rose beyond what I wished to pay. They're of a C&O prototype, but they're very nice.

    Do you have any? I don't understand why Atlas doesn't do another run of these.




    [​IMG]
     
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  6. Mark Ricci

    Mark Ricci TrainBoard Member

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    This and the companion 91513 were on eBay a few months ago or so. Lost out on both but these are my favorite CNJ cabooses. Absolutely beautiful!

    btw, I have a red CNJ covered hopper but outside a worthpoint ad picture, cannot track it down on either Atlas archive or trovestar. Any thoughts?

    upload_2021-5-22_17-14-57.png
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2021
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  7. Hardcoaler

    Hardcoaler TrainBoard Member

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    That was actually the auction that I joined. Hee hee -- we were bidding against each other. :LOL: Oh well, neither of us wanted to spend a pile of money to take either one home. I'm wanting to get at least one of Bluford Shops' Erie bay window hacks -- they look really nice in pictures. Ride height is important to appearance and some manufacturers don't get it right, such as the Bachmann CSX below. :eek:

    upload_2021-5-22_17-27-8.png

    upload_2021-5-22_17-32-1.png
     
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  8. Mark Ricci

    Mark Ricci TrainBoard Member

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    Wow, probably so since I bid on both. Think the 513 auction the buyer got a good deal at less than $20. 508 sold for in $30s . if the car is ever made, definitely will buy 1. Bought the Bluford PSE&G coal car unsure if want to keep but it looks very nice. Stumbled on this CNJ Alco S4, gotta love it.

    http://readymadetoys.com/bas4dice1.html?viewfullsite=1

    upload_2021-5-22_17-52-23.png
     
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  9. Hardcoaler

    Hardcoaler TrainBoard Member

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    I picked up three because I thought they were pretty neat. The theme of my free-lance N layouts have been a post-CR regional set in the anthracite region in the 1980s. I try to stay reasonably prototypical, but don't deny myself older cars like this if they bring me a smile. The cars brought my mother a smile too, having been born in NJ in the 1920s to a family with many generations there.


    [​IMG]

    Yep, I love your S-4! (y)
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2021
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  10. Mark Ricci

    Mark Ricci TrainBoard Member

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    Yep, the the PSE&G car I have. T Don't own the S-4 but would buy if found one that had DCC or capable of installing one.
     
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  11. Hardcoaler

    Hardcoaler TrainBoard Member

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    Atlas has done some nice CNJ units over the years. As with the cabooses, I suspect they're no longer available for an affordable retail price. The Baldwin VO-1000s are neat, as are the FM H-15-44s. The handrails must be missing from the bottom photo.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
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  12. Mark Ricci

    Mark Ricci TrainBoard Member

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    The Atlas H15-44 was my first loco that I bought Oct last year. I really liked it but got it used on eBay and although it ran decent, there were signs of abuse. Plus with the short term intention of going to DCC and the cost of installing sound decoder, ended selling it and bought the BLI F3. Really liked it.

    upload_2021-5-23_11-52-39.png

    In March, before buying the SD35, saw someone on eBay selling a new CNJ green VO-1000 shell. I bid but lost.. However, would have gotten that and then say a new Atlas VO-1000 loco which would have bought and then just swapped shells. The shorter the loco the better in my book. And, at 48', a little shorter than the F3 as compared to the 60' SD35. The SD35 saving grace is that the CNJ version has the low nose which visually, makes it appear smaller. Once losing the VO-1000 shell, somewhat forced buying SD35 which by the way, attempted to return. The only thing dealer did was give me Atlas phone # on a product delivered less than 48 hours earlier(Delivered around 6pm Sat). This was even before testing thru turnouts and stuff. Just those noisy trucks were enough in my mind to return. Guess partly due to the F3, it is wonderfully whisper quiet. Its actually a joy to listen w/o sound. Oh well, we CNJ people don't have a lot of options. So if the stuttering issue on it can be resolved, I'll deal with the noise. In the end, wished now that I bided up on the VO-1000 shell assuming of course, and I'd have to research it now, whether that whole SD35 truck issue mention earlier in thread are the same trucks on a VO-1000?

    The plan is to have 3 locos. Best 3 if my choice, SW7, a VO-1000 and a F3 measuring think 44, 48 and 50' respectively.

    Tom's Trains in Westfield has custom CNJ logo decals n scale made by microscale, I believe, in Deluxe (gold) yellow black and white. Also bought the Trainman unlettered green Combine (modeled after the CNJ and CNW Pullmans anyway) since figure it could be a lifetime before an Atlas green CNJ marked passenger car is available. Bought the deluxe color decals so besides the car, if I found a green unlettered VO 1000, pretty good to go. Gives a few more options for a smaller green CNJ fleet.
     

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    Last edited: May 23, 2021
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  13. ggnlars

    ggnlars TrainBoard Member

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    Being new to N scale, my first hand experience is limited with these models.
    However, I have extensive experience working with HO models. As a on line friend says, RTR really means ready to refurbish. He is right.
    In every case with a brand new engine. I run a series of break in runs, then define the engine performance. Then I perform a clean, adjust & tune (CAT) activity. The normal result is a 25 to 30 percent improvement in pulling capability. The corresponding low speed and operational speed of a nominal train is also vastly improved.
    unfortunately the price you pay has little to do with the over all quality. In all cases, assembly & design short cuts are employed to reduce the time & cost to manufacture.
    a prevalent example was shown earlier in the BLI trucks. The compression contacts sound like a good idea, but the are froth with performance issues. Basically they introduce a resistance in the circuit that varies with truck position and amount of compression to start with. This resistance varies the voltage drop across the rest of the circuit. Which will retard the motor speed & power. Time & crud further aggravate this problem.
    Introducing DCC magnifies the problem because of the known “fretting” of material at a metal contact with current passing. The amount of fretting goes directly with the level of power at the contact. Prior to the BR the DCC power is at least twice that of DC.
    All of this is not intended to discourage your purchasing any products or not taking advantage of the benefits of DCC. One has to realize that you will likely be under the hood on a given engine for many reasons.
    The models are immensely more complicated that those available several decades ago & the average expectations are also higher. Unfortunately, for most models bought new, the wheels turn for the first time when you put them on the track. Often things are less than perfect. Around 5 or so percent of the time something does not work. They are usually good about “fixing” those. The real quandary comes because a CAT is always beneficial. Taking advantage of that requires a RTR.
     
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  14. EsK

    EsK TrainBoard Member

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    I wholeheartedly agree with the BLI N scale trucks compression contact issues that you talk about. I have to clean the track & the BLI engines on every run. Even then I consider myself lucky if the hiccups on straight tracks and on turnouts don't lead to derailments.

    Krish
     
  15. Mark Ricci

    Mark Ricci TrainBoard Member

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    In the end, guess this is something to aspire to...... in the quest to achieve the pivotal point in model railroading.. Could really use uncle for extra DCC power..

     
  16. Doug Gosha

    Doug Gosha TrainBoard Member

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    Funny how they just taped one "wreck scene" for the TV series and used it over and over.

    Doiug
     
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  17. Mark Ricci

    Mark Ricci TrainBoard Member

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    It kinda seems appropriate for the double crossover stutter saga. Anyway....

    My brother was over yesterday afternoon. first time 2 people running 2 trains at same time. Had a little collision at crossover and last night remembered as a kid watching the train crashes from the Addams Family. Yes, many uses of same footage.
     
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  18. EsK

    EsK TrainBoard Member

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    Get automation software, then you can challenge your brother to run into you! He won't be able to! ;)
     
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  19. Mark Ricci

    Mark Ricci TrainBoard Member

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    Oh yeah, automation is very cool and that's really where I'd like to get to,
     
  20. Mark Ricci

    Mark Ricci TrainBoard Member

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    An update... Had sent SD 35 back to Atlas in June. Received the Atlas SD 35 back today. Atlas indicated that loco had a defective motor and they replaced the trucks too. Put it on track. Performed worse than before, incredibly slow and sluggish, and then stopped working. After some tests, took off shell and decoder board fell out. Sending back to Atlas... This is or was a brand new locomotive.... :-(
     
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