When did MTL start body mounting freight cars?

Nick Lorusso Jun 10, 2020

  1. Nick Lorusso

    Nick Lorusso TrainBoard Member

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    Ok so just getting back into N and my 2 new single cars April released BNSF box car and Rail Box Graffiti box car have body mounted couplers. When did this happen? I remember the heavyweights having body mounts but not freight cars. What other MTL freight cars are body mounted now? Nice job MTL. Now if they would come standard with metal wheels. IMG_5539.jpg
     
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  2. bremner

    bremner Staff Member

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    A few months ago
     
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  3. BarstowRick

    BarstowRick TrainBoard Supporter

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    For a lot of us, "Body mounted couplers are best mounted couplers." We've been yelling for cars to come out body mounted from the factory Looks like someone was listening.

    Thanks MicroTrains/MTL.
     
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  4. Inkaneer

    Inkaneer TrainBoard Member

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    As long as N scale remains married to 9 3/4 inch curves, No. 4 switches (turnouts) and people want to run big six axle engines with looooooong cars, body mounts will be the cause of a lot of dissatisfied people. Tight curves are okay if running four axle power and 40 foot cars but even there coupling with body mounts on a curve is not feasible. But there apparently is a trend to have smaller layouts and the question that always comes up is how tight of a curve can I use. TTRAK, hollow core door layouts, 2x4 feet layouts are some of the current trends. Now, I realize that not everyone has the space for a large layout. Joining a club is an option. That dilemma was what caused me to join an NTRAK club. NTRAK is not for everyone but there are other non NTRAK clubs around. If all else fails maybe changing out that big diesel for some traction models or short wheel base power. The B&O had some really big power like the EM 2-8-8-4's and the EL 2-8-8-0's but none of these engines ever worked the tight curves at the warehouses and docks in Baltimore.

    Truck mounted couplers have the big advantage of always being aligned with the track centerline. This enables coupling on sharp curves which the body mounts can not. Body mounts have no big advantages. The arguments heard most often is that body mounts are prototypical and the ability to back long trains. As far as being prototypical, that is not a major advantage. There are lots of things in N scale that are not prototypical. Picking out just one and making it into a major issue is arbitrary at best. As for the ability to back long trains, there are other variables involved, most important is the condition of the track. Yet I've seen long trains backed into a yard on a NTRAK layout (equipped with Peco #8 switches). It is not an impossibility. So tight curves, big engines, long cars with body mounts is bad juju. So in a nutshell If you want to go big engines and big cars then go big curves as well. If not then curse all you want.
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2020
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  5. BarstowRick

    BarstowRick TrainBoard Supporter

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    Inkaneer, Well put!

    I don't know where to start accept to agree.

    One of the frustrations I had while working in a hobby shop (My favorite job bar none but didn't pay). Is a question, way to many customers came in the door with. Are you ready? Inkaneer hits the nail on the head when he talks about married to. Go back and read what he says. See above.

    The customer would come in all excited and twitter-patted over Toy Trains! Oh boy we are going to buy a train to run under the Christmas Tree. First Question? Here it comes! " How tight can I make my curves? ". Although, I never said this out loud... I was thinking, "Wrap it around your little finger, what the Heck." Never mind the other unmentionable expletives and thoughts running through my head. I'd of gotten sent to work in the warehouse or worse yet... out the door on the curb, if I responded that way. So I held my tongue between my teeth. Ouch!

    My answer, while using my poker face. How about Lionels, 0-27? For some reason that made the boss happy. He was a die hard Lionel, Toy Train Enthusiast. " Dam Model Railroading", I thought I heard him say... just that on a number of occasions.

    True story.

    Why do some of us prefer body mounted couplers? The stories I could tell. Almost out of time for today, lucky you.

    The advantage to having body mounted couplers is: (Warning: some of you won't want to hear this). You know... body mounted couplers (I repeat so we don't get lost in the discussion here)... simply, the trucks don't buckle and turn-out (proper use of that "T" word) causing unwanted derailments. It doesn't matter what gauge or how tight or not, your curves are. Truck mounted couplers don't like reverse moves. Truck mounted couplers won't take the pressure of a reverse move and stay on the tracks.

    In case you are thinking then add weight. I don't recommend that. Weight isn't the answer here. Add to much weight and you can't move your trains about. Never mind the damage all that weight does. I've seen it spread the wheel-sets. Properly weighted train cars - however - is part of the answer.

    The solution of course is wider curves, #6 and larger switches and those body mounted couplers.;)

    OR, wrap it around your little finger, what the heck.:confused:
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2020
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  6. BarstowRick

    BarstowRick TrainBoard Supporter

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    Now my hypocrisy will show through.:confused:

    There are simply some very long train cars and locomotives where body mounted couplers aren't the answer. Even my widest curves and longest switches can cause problems. Plus the fact that I'm still married to some tighter curves on my layout, then I like.

    So, although my preferred method of installing couplers as in body mounted. Well, not all my equipment is going to get them.:eek:

    Just thought you might have a need to know.:cool:
     
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  7. NorsemanJack

    NorsemanJack TrainBoard Member

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    IIRC, the TOFC cars were body mounted many years ago. Are you suggesting that all releases are now body mounted?
     
  8. umtrr-author

    umtrr-author TrainBoard Member

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    Micro-Trains started retrofitting its earlier body styles with lowered underframes and body mounted couplers in January 2019. Many of the boxcar body styles have been converted at this point. Other body styles are supposed to follow however I have no timetable for this. A few of the newer body styles have been released from the start with body mounted couplers.

    I have started indicating cars with this feature with an italized "[L]" in the UMTRR Release Tables.
     
  9. John Moore

    John Moore TrainBoard Supporter

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    With my tight 8.5 inch mainline curves and turnouts that are 6 inch rad some places I do have body mounts on some equipment. But most of that equipment is in the 30 foot body length range. Truck mounts are best for me and always will be. My diesels are all 4 axle short diesels 70 tonners is about the biggest I roster. With steam it is all small drivered 3 axle.
     
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  10. NorsemanJack

    NorsemanJack TrainBoard Member

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    Thanks for the info George. When you say "lowered underframes," does this suggest that the body of the car will ride closer to the track?
     
  11. SecretWeapon

    SecretWeapon Passed away January 23, 2024 In Memoriam

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    I HATE THEM!!!!!!!!!!!! I'VE ALMOST STOPPED BUYING THEM. I MAY BUY 1 CAR A MONTH INSTEAD OF 2-4.
     
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  12. BarstowRick

    BarstowRick TrainBoard Supporter

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    I love them. :sick::sneaky::)

    Body mounted couplers are indeed...best mounted couplers.:cool:

    I'll buy as many as I can afford. Beats converting them.(y)
     
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  13. NorsemanJack

    NorsemanJack TrainBoard Member

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    I would like to see a photo showing the same Micro-trains model car (e.g. single door 20000 series box car, etc.) in a before and after with respect to the lowering and body mounting. George's website indicates that there have been several 23000 double door 40' box cars released with the new coupler treatment (023 00 330 PRR, 023 00 420 CP, 023 00 361 UP, 023 00 362 UP, etc.) If somebody who has bought one of these would couple it to an older 23000 release and post a photo, it would give a nice direct comparison of the effects of Micro-trains' change in design. I would really like to compare the effects on overall car height as well as coupler spacing. Thanks in advance!
     
  14. NorsemanJack

    NorsemanJack TrainBoard Member

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    Unfortunately, it looks like the price of admission in this case (as in many others) may have been adding wider, non-prototypical, space between these "enhanced" cars. I would rather have closer coupling distance than ease of backing up a 100 car freight (which I really don't understand the need for).
     
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  15. Inkaneer

    Inkaneer TrainBoard Member

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    +1
     
  16. BarstowRick

    BarstowRick TrainBoard Supporter

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    NorsemanJack, you aren't the only one who doesn't see it. I associate with a club full of members and there's only a few of us who see the purpose in having body mounted couplers. What you hear, "I don't use them at home." It's simple they are runners not operators. As long as all you do is pull your train forward, you may never see it. Join up with modelers who are operators and have local switch jobs and you'll soon realize the purpose and benefits.

    I started out in HO with 15" radius curves and #4 switches. X2F (horn hook couplers) NMRA approved. I mean they must be good right? Not. I watched my trains and you couldn't back up anything without watching it derail. My Athearn and Tyco motors of the time were body mounted and caused all kinds of problems with my truck mounted couplers. It didn't take me long to figure out what needed to change. With the aide of an older modeler, his influence and demonstrations. Need to add here, as it turned out a good friend. A brief demonstration and I was surprised at how well body mounted couplers worked. I was hooked or coupled.:whistle:

    Where did he get his knuckle couplers? Kadee, was the answer!

    I can't stand to see my trains run around in a circle on unrealistic looking track and operations. I've been that way since I was a kid.:mad: A influential family of Rails (Professionals) helped me form up what I thought was desirable and what isn't.

    Today. A move to N scale. :LOL: I soon learned, I can still operate 15" radius curves but the #4 switches had to go. Exception being some industrial switching and a small trolley line. #4 switches are all but gone. #6 switches or larger and body mounted couplers are becoming a reality.(y)

    Clearly, it's a choice thing and if you are happy with what you are doing then there's no reason to change. As far as realistic, well...gosh...they are. I haven't yet found any distance issues...yet. Give me time!:cool:

    As for me and my railroad. Well, I like the results.:D

    Just my thoughts and experience talking.o_O
     
  17. NorsemanJack

    NorsemanJack TrainBoard Member

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    Well, I think we're one good photo away from seeing the "issues." I did find a few photos in George's UMTRR Jan 2019 issue showing what MT has done to/for us. The subject car was a 20000 series box car. They clearly added distance between cars by migrating to a body mount coupler. I hate that. No, I REALLY hate that. It's a pet peeve. Many don't care, and that's just fine. Many DO care, and find that the most non-prototypical aspect of N scale RTR equipment today is often those silly half mile distances between coupled cars. Exhibit A = MT heavyweights. Exhibit B = IMR F units. There are easy fixes for some (i.e. unimates in MT draft gear boxes on IMR F units), okay fixes for others (i.e. Z scale 905's on the MT heavyweights) and no good fixes for others. Heck, I think I even started a thread on this right here on our fine forum!

    In fairness to you, and to your point, if I were a "true operator," I would likely have greater appreciation for MT's move to being body mount centric. It really doesn't matter, as I've been in de-accumulation mode the past several years and mostly just enjoy running Kato passenger trains on temporary set ups "Japan style." I maintain a small MT freight collection (less than 100 cars) to provide background scenery for those outstanding Kato "name trains." That said, I like my background scenery to look "right" and adding a non-prototypical extra foot of spacing between each car in a string of boring 40' boxcar red box cars just so some operator in Barstow can back up his mile long freight (jk ;)) just doesn't appeal to me.
     
  18. BarstowRick

    BarstowRick TrainBoard Supporter

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    Now that's funny. :confused::LOL: Well put, well put.:sneaky:

    Try 30, 40 and 50 car trains and back them up through a yard ladder. It can get interesting.:sick:

    Like I said earlier it's a choice thing. You need to have fun doing what you like.

    So go for it.:cool:
     
  19. NorsemanJack

    NorsemanJack TrainBoard Member

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    Peace brother!! (y)
     
  20. Inkaneer

    Inkaneer TrainBoard Member

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    If these 'modelers who are operators' were real operators would they not have their train blocked so that they do not have to shove 30-50 cars just to set one boxcar? That is what the big boys do. Also the big class 1 roads aren't interested in switching operations. They operate by ton miles and the more the better. They will do switching but only if they have to. The day of the peddler freight is long gone. So, yeah, I guess they are runners too.
     
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