HI Folks: Been busy with the planning software again -- heres the current version -- I could use some critiques Thanks TIM
I got excited and was hoping this plan would include tunnel at Occidental, the loop at Fir, the serpentine La Veta Pass mainline, and the most remote scenery imaginable... I'm not too knowledgeable on LVP traffic, but I don't recall coal as a staple of the route. In the D&RGW era, curves and grades caused tonnage limits which limited train length to around 4000 tons. Grain cars, lumber, livestock, produce, (especially potatoes which you included) are definitely appropriate. I think lava rock or something (scoria?) was a common shipment. Now the mainline's sidings are used for storage cars. (my 2017 photo) An interchange with San Luis Central (SLC, west interchange) would also be appropriate and add variety. Having the SLC interchange meet the SLRG main elsewhere (perhaps near the exit to hidden staging behind the ag dealer) could use staging to have transfers run out onto the main, versus park off-layout in the corner. A container yard is cool--I'm fairly confident doublestacks won't clear the tunnels on the LVP mainline, but singles should. On the other hand, full-length dome cars and the monstrous D&RGW L-131 class 2-8-8-2s were photographed in the San Luis Valley, so they (and 89' flats with COFC/TOFCs) are plausible. On the planning side, the coal loop will impose some unique electrical requirements, as it will be a reverse loop (in red on your plan). In DCC, it's easy to manage, with a auto-reversing box. I'm electrically challenged and managed to incorporate one in my old layout. Just something to be aware of. I'm also assuming your plan fits in a bedroom of 10x10' size. The elevator, hidden staging corners and corner yard will be tough reaches, in excess of 24". You can guarantee derailments where it is difficult to reach (i.e. tunnels, hidden spots), and those portions will be a long reach, unless you have Inspector Gadget arms! Hidden staging will be hidden using what? A short backdrop? Building faces? Also consider access and reach here, especially blind, over an obstruction. Not that you need to redesign the whole enchilada, just be aware access may be difficult in some places. Others here are far more experienced in design, so I'll defer to them!
I tell ya, I very much that I could include the loop at Fir (along with the concert grounds) and some of the other things, but unfortunately, space just doesnt allow it -- I will be able to come up underneath to get to some of the stuff, and the hidden staging yard will be behind an open topped or openable mountain, or the whole front of the mountain will open up, Im not sure yet. If you have ideas how to incorporate some of the better scenic features, I'd love to hear them. I might make that reversing loop on the upper left side into the loop at fir --we'll see -- its primarially planned as an operations layout, set in an alternate universe, so some things are a little different TIM
Back story for Tim Holmes' San Luis and Rio Grande In case some of you guys havent read the back story to the layout, here it is -- although its not yet updated for the new layout plan The San Luis and Rio Grande valleys have been for many years economically disadvantaged and little more than desert and scrub. Various attempts have been made over the years to maintain a railroad through the valley. Beginning in the early 2000s, climactic changes, changes in water management upstream, and the discovery of a previously untapped shallow aquifer brought an agricultural boom to the valleys. At around the same time, the USGS began monitoring a previously unknown fault line in west Texas that they determined had the potential to unleash a severe quake. Seeing the potential for disruption of their southern transcontinental lines, BNSF began searching for alternatives for moving their products across the country. Unable to keep up with the boom in agriculture, as well as significant coal, mineral and oil strikes, the SLRG requested help from BNSF and was brought under the umbrella of BNSF as a bridge line. Due to years of mismanagement and lack of funds, the infrastructure of the SLRG required an almost complete rebuild, so BNSF as well as the mineral, coal, oil, gas and agricultural companies began to invest heavily in infrastructure and equipment for the line. The narrow-gauge track in the western division was upgraded to standard gauge and re-profiled to be able to handle the loads that would be coming, track was entirely re-graded and replaced, and modern signaling systems were installed. At the same time, a consortium of community resources gathered to purchase the struggling Rio Grande Scenic railroad and brought it under the umbrella of BNSF as a scenic railroad. The equipment was totally refurbished, and as necessary re-motored to provide a wonderful scenic experience for passengers. The extension of the western division also opened opportunities for excursions into the scenic 4 Corners region as well. Seeing the rapid growth of the Scenic, an individual in New York State purchased and donated a working steam engine to the line, for the price of a lifetime ticket for himself and his family. Once again, steam ruled the rails in the San Luis and Rio Grande Valleys. In 2010, the National Hyperloop network was completed, and various higher speed commuter lines began to penetrate the areas between the hyperloop nodes. On July 4, 2017 to much fanfare the first Rio Grande Valley Jackrabbit train went into operation between Alamosa and the Hyperloop terminal in Pueblo - this gave commuters access to Pueblo in about 35 minutes from Alamosa, the Denver area in 45 and Chicago in just over 2 hours. The Jackrabbit now makes 5 loops per day between Alamosa and Pueblo -- 2 morning and one noon and 2 evening. After 15 years of almost continuous upgrades and improvements, the project was declared officially finished on January 1, 2015, and the entire system went into operation. And not a moment too soon. In July of 2015, the USGS, following up on its preliminary report, issued a high priority warning to transportation and other assets in the west Texas region recommending that they begin contingency planning for earthquake damage and resultant socio-economic disruption. At the time, the warning suggested a maximum of a 6.2 earthquake, and preparations began. While the warnings were heeded by many, no one was expecting magnitude of the massive 9.1 White Sands quake that was unleashed on June 16 2017, but when it struck, it caused the total collapse of the Cibola tunnel Complex on the BNSF Clovis Subdivision west of Belen as well as destroying a number of large trestles and miles of track around the Albuquerque While this disruption was bad enough, subsequent aftershocks (some of them as high as 8.0 caused the collapse of an illegal chemical dump that was using a series of underground caverns in the area west of Ciudad Juarez. The dump contained among other things, Russian and Chinese chemical weapons and radioactive waste illegally smuggled into the country through a tunnel system by the Mexican drug cartels. The collapse of the underground cavern system they were using released these chemical weapons and contaminants which included persistent nerve toxins and has contaminated a large section of land for the foreseeable future, effectively closing the BNSF Lordsburg and El Paso subdivisions. The initial quake revealed the location of the site, but the aftershock struck before mitigation processes could be undertaken, however the early exposure of the site allowed the authorities to evacuate the EL Paso area keeping casualties to a minimum. Additionally, the quake and aftershocks collapsed a long forgotten underground storage facility north of El Paso. This facility was a leftover from the Manhattan project in World War 2 and contained decaying nuclear isotopes. This facility depended upon spacing to keep the fissionable material apart and prevent a chain reaction, the quakes and subsequent collapse of the facility pooled enough fissile material to cause a runaway chain reaction which contaminated a large section of southern Fort Bliss and closed the UP Carrizozo Subdivision. As a result of the earthquakes and subsequent contamination, The BNSF southern transcon Route is currently closed between Gallup and Belen NM. (CHECK THE GEOGRAPHY HERE) In response to that closure, the BNSF has diverted as much traffic as it can handle to its central transcon line, and over its trackage rights on the UP Rocky Mountain Division, however because of the closure of the UP sunset route from the same earthquake, the UP was forced to impose traffic quotas its central route. This has forced the BNSF to find additional trackage and as a result traffic has dramatically expanded over the SLRG in the following 6 months. In exchange for its traffic rights on the UP Rocky Mountain Division, BNSF is allowing some UP traffic (particularly that bound for Dallas and Houston) to pass over the SLRG. The BNSF is routing traffic into Walsenburg, and then routing it south to Dallas. Likewise, AMTRAK has diverted its Southwest Chief, and Sunset Limited service over the SLRG bringing additional passenger revenue. Over the previous 20 years or so, the climatological and irrigation changes which begun the upgrade process have increased the production of the barley, wheat, potatoes, sugar beets and lumber. The increase in productivity has caused several agricultural companies including Coors Brewing, On-Cor, Hi-Grade Meats, Archer Daniels Midland, and Ore-Ida as well as Georgia Pacific Lumber, to invest very heavily in the Valley. In mid-2017, the Homestake mining company made a massive strike of gold, silver and rare earths in the area of Creede. As the processing facilities are not currently available in the Creede region, they are being shipped as ore to Dallas/Fort Worth for processing. Shortly after the strike in Creede, a previously untapped oil dome near the town of Center was drilled and began producing a high rate of both natural gas and light sweet crude. Environmental planning procedures as well as concern over possible ruptures has delayed the construction of a pipeline in the area to transport the products, so for now tank cars are being used to move the product out to the refineries.
I like it. Don't know much about the real thing but it looks like it has lots of interesting things going on and should be interesting to operate on. The only thing I'd look at is ..... .... maybe a second reversing loop so that you don't have to back through the one at the top unless I'm missing something. I think the bottom one could pretty much look like another siding, a second track coming off the one siding. Maybe an engine house, short tunnel, mine loading elevator or something near where it it connects back into the mainline at the bottom that the track runs through that would more or less camouflage the fact that it is a reversing loop. Sumner
That's quite the history! I say why not add Fir? There's enough rolling terrain to camouflage the loop from the town side. Fir sits in a broad valley, and could be hidden by the hills it follows. In fact, that space between the ag dealer and the loop could be adjusted to remove the ag dealer spur and move it perhaps near the potato warehouse. You could add some hills in that empty space. The manufacturing and warehouse could be situated on the LVP mainline grade at Ft Garland, CO. There's sufficient rolling terrain near Ft Garland to transition from the mountainous side to the San Luis valley side. For those in the know, the SLRG is famous for its 2.5-3% mainline grade and loop(s). It would be a signature scene. It even has a reversing loop in real life (steeper than 3% grade, connecting the loop ends; I think SLRG removed it, but D&RGW once turned snowplows on it), one you can use for normal ops, and the tail track to staging. There should be space to model the concert grounds too. The tunnel west of Occidental (https://goo.gl/maps/z63aztzY6QV2kp176) could be a natural scenic block for hidden staging. The main from Fir could wind between hills (like the real thing does), and exit at Ft Garland. As for hiding staging, or adding access, I have my tunnels with removable tops for best access. I also have built hidden staging, using a view block. Some layout builders have used lift-out scenery blocks for accessing tight spots. Tunnels were built with open access in mind from the beginning. You can see the cuts for the removable top. Scenicked-in, the gaps are getting hard to see. With snow, the gaps are harder to find, and more trees hide it well. One of these days I should finish the fascia over the removable top. The view block is a simple strip of foamboard, covered with ground foam clumps, and trees palnted in front. In your case, a low, flat-backed hill would serve your purpose. Building flats would also add industries to switch in the town end.
Hemiadda2d: Excellent Ideas -- IM going to have a close look at them -- I love the ability to include fir and the muleshoe there -- thank you so much! TIM
Hi Guys: I took some of the suggestions listed here and incorporated them to the track plan, Here is an updated version -- if I missed or mis-interpreted a suggestion, please correct me -- and also please let me know of other feedback or ideas
I like it, Tim! The ~4% grade leaving Fir into staging and back upgrade to the town will make smooth track work there especially critical. The scoria loadout is a nice addition, and adds a bit of operational interest for a few loads out and empties in, whether worked in a local, or set out from a mainline freight. It needs be little more than a scar in the hill, a wheel loader and spur with 2-3 cars and maybe a shack for an office. Tight curves are the rule on LVP, and I think you captured that flavor well. The Creede interchange would probably be better suited (prototypically) to the exit from staging near the big multi door warehouse. I'm confused whether the secondary hidden staging is above or below main hidden staging. 4% downgrade from Fir into Occidental will make it 2-2.5" lower than Fir and nearly hidden from typical viewing angles, unless it's upgrade from Fir (unrealistic), as Fir is the summit of the climb. Perhaps Occidental Tunnel should be further west (adjacent to the scoria pit), where it will be more readily seen? After it disappears into the hill, the hill can be a view block with a flat back. As it is, the tunnel seems to be on the wrong side of the summit, but there are no tunnels on the west side of Fir. There apparently was once a tunnel under a mile east of Fir, but it was troublesome and daylighted in the late 1920s. (pg 20, https://books.google.com/books?id=FxeaAwAAQBAJ&pg=PA19&lpg=PA19&dq=la+veta+pass+tunnel&source=bl&ots=23Q-kbVimN&sig=ACfU3U1CJjuwC2TExVL2JIzPuW5gukrcAQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjZxvj53K7pAhUyhOAKHSbkBo0Q6AEwDXoECAoQAQ#v=onepage&q=la veta pass tunnel&f=false) Short of a warehouse in which to build accurately mile for mile, building any model railroad is full of compromises. It's just how far we are willing to deal with prototype/model inaccuracy.
Hi Hemiadda2d: The hidden staging is level with the loop at fir and hidden -- above it is the mountain line, which is exposed and will be sceniced, and will contain the occidental tunnel - that 4% grade up to the tunnel will have to be a compromise, even though I know Fir is the top of the grade I would love a big warehouse to build the whole line in full scale -- but neither space nor money are available I think this layout will give some of the flavor of SLRG, albeit with some concessions to reality The other thing I was thinking is that I could use the hidden staging for both creede and the connection to the bnsf at Gallup and put something else on what is now the west interchange -- im always looking for additional industry to add operational excitement TIM
Heres the basic benchwork plan for the layout -- I dont have the legs shown, but they will generally be in the corners . There are doubled cross members which are where the individual units will be spliced together (simply to make it easier to get in the door) I have access to a 10 inch radial arm saw with a 24 inch draw, so ripping out the parts from 3/4 ply will be easy, as will notching pieces were necessary where they cross (Dad's got a good dado set) Everything will be glued (waterproof glue) and stapled using an air stapler with appropriate sized staples Tim
HI Guys: Been busy updating stuff, and putting in industries and and terrain. The terrain is kinda rough b/c my planning software doesnt handle terrain well at all. As always, comments and critiques are very welcome -- some have sent pictures that they have of the area and the San Luis and Rio Grande -- more are always welcome. TO those who have been helping THANK YOU -- I Needed it badly FIrst image shows the exposed mountain track along the back of the layout, the second image shows the hidden staging etc (yes, the yard ladders are horribly ugly, still trying to figure out how to make them right! Thanks again for all the help and have a great day TIM
I don't have many photos of the line, but there's a number of trip reports from rides on the SLRG here that might help: http://www.drgw.net/trips/ That said, I never thought of the Fir concert area being on a separate "deck" like shown on your plan, and more prototypically arranged. That opens the loop area up some. http://www.drgw.net/info/LaVetaPass Ain't google maps great?
The problem with LVP is its remoteness and inaccessibility. Moffat Route is mostly inaccessible, but public access is available at a couple midpoints on the east slope. Tennessee Pass is paralleled largely by a US highway. There's no access to most of LVP today. Coming in eastbound on the west slope, the dirt forest road is blocked by an exclusive, gated community beyond Sierra siding (http://forbespark.org/), where the scenery gets really nice. One might not expect this, being so remote in a high forest area. There's NO access except by long horseback, backcountry ride to Fir (assuming this is over private land as well) or almost anywhere else until almost Occidental, as another forest road ends in another gate near the lower tunnel. I wonder if any Forbes Park landowner is a railfan willing to have visitor railfans? There's some BLM, national forest and state wilderness east of Fir almost to Occidental, but the rest is not. http://publiclands.org/Get-Books-and-Maps.php?plicstate=CO
Mountains, Remoteness and Inaccessability, along with trains, sounds like a place I would love to live!!!!! -- just so long a it has available internet (and electricity and water)
