The sound under the layout is just that, great sound, can be as loud as you like, but in the end, IMO, it's still sounds like it's coming from under the layout. I have over 140' of main line, 22' x 33' L shaped, that = a lot of speakers. Even with the low sound level of the new MRC decoders in manual mode, I can still hear those 3 EMD GPs pulling a loaded coal train 20' away, in notch 8 at 25 SMPH.
It doesn't take a $100 digital soldering station to install decoders. I use a forty year old 25 watt iron with no temperature control of any kind. Drinking $100 worth of beer certainly would not be conducive to installing decoders of any type. I do agree with the $100 for a good decoder, some are a little more some a little less, but it's a good ballpark. As far as your comment about sound quality, it makes me wonder why you're in this hobby. We spend money and time making trees that anyone can tell aren't real. We spend money and time making buildings that anyone can tell aren't real. We spend money and time trying to create the illusion of water when anyone can tell it isn't real. We spend money and time with trains that anyone can tell aren't real. You're correct in that the sound from an N-scale sound decoder doesn't sound exactly like a real locomotive, but no N-scale locomotive provides the ground shaking vibration of a real locomotive. So why do you bother to run your locomotives if they can't possibly be just like the real thing?
again... I'm surprised that no one has yet talked about the 'surroundtrax' system from sountraxx!... an OUTSTANDING system! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLWh0FqwITo Bruce
I think a lot on here are expecting too much. I don't want to here my loco's all the way around the layout. You should really only hear the loco distintly within about 6-8' at the most. If you have a smaller layout, compress that distance just as you compress the rest of your layout. You can't hear real trains miles away, other than maybe a horn or a barely audible rumble, your layout should be the same way. Things should be quiet, then you hear the rumble, then you see the train, then the horn then it goes by and fades into the distance. Anything more than that is overkill and annoying.
My comments on sound does NOT mean I dont enjoy the hobby...quite to the contrary !! By your thinking...anyone who doesnt like sound on their layout should get out ! Does this mean that those who dont like...say Kato stuff...shouldnt be in the hobby either. Just because someone makes a comment that doesnt agree with yours does not mean we should be "tarred and feathered and run out of town on a rail" . That being said... Most of what I said was said somewhat tongue in cheek. I would NEVER drink $100.00 worth of beer while working with a hot soldering iron!!! Although the "...$10.00 transistor radio" comment was dead on. It's the reason I DONT use sound decoders. Scenery doesnt make noise and is great eye candy. Noise on the other hand...especially crappy noise...is annoying at best. I prefer some good rock and roll on the stereo...as background sound...and enjoy the serenity of the layout as trains go round and round. To each their own :tb-wink:
It seems most people are on one side of the fence or the other when it comes to sound. I'd have to say I'm in favor of sound. I don't expect to get stereo like sound reproduction however some decoders/speaker combinations are better than others. Quite frankly, IMHO most people have their sound set too high. And I'm not too concerned about engine rumble but rather like to blow the horn and be able to activate the bell in a prototype manner when operating. In any case, most sound installations are better and less annoying then any sound I try to imitate with my own mouth and voice! :tb-biggrin:
Bill..... Ya mean to say " ChUUgggga...ChhhuuGGGaaa...C H o O..c h O oooo " just dont cut it anymore ? :tb-biggrin:
So much for my outsourcing plan [scratches Bill's name off the external sound source list]. :tb-tongue:
Thanks PW&NJ for the information. It has possibilities. Has/Does anyone herd of this option? Put your sound decoder and speaker or a larger speaker in a box car and use it instead of the Locomotive. See ya Ron
The $10 transistor radios that I remember had three inch speakers, so comparing them won't work. A locomotive sound source that sits in one place should only be used for locos sitting in one space unless your controls are set up to simulate you sitting in a cab. I have a MRC Synchro Sound unit that hooks into the DCC controls and I run it through a car speaker. It sound good but is stays in the same place. I'd rather have a underperforming moving sound source than one that just sits there. I have sound decoders from Tsunami. MRC and Digitrax and none are perfect. The Digitrax being the most irritating install. You must install a capacitor it's not an option. Installation on every Kato loco sucks. When I get fed up and ignore it for a couple of days then it starts working. I try to fill the layout with sound, not just locos but ambient as well. I use three iPod Shuffles with amplified computer speakers with three different specialty mixes. City, Yard/Shops and Countryside are the mixes. I get the sounds from FantaSonics, free on the Web and other sellers. I use the random function as to keep the the sounds like real life never repeating the same sounds in a sequence as a CD or tape would. In several places I use ITTC sound chips for some localized sounds. The key is that no sound is set very loud. But the total sound will give a great bit of scenery presence that is missing on many layouts. Even though the locos don't drown out every other sound on the layout, they just add to the soundscape and add a living component that ties the whole layout together. You have to remember that you are listening to the sound from a couple hundred to a thousand feet away. Even though the trains are running at arms length.
Here is one that I did with a base reflex speaker in the box car and the decoder in the b unit. I like the Loksound decoders because you can load your own sound files. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZ2LRt2Pw3s
Remember the old PFM sound system back a couple hundred years ago . I had the pleasure of visiting a n-scale model railroad with that system. He install very large speaker in high cube box cars. The steam locos also had micro motors with gear heads, and every thing impressed me so well, I changed from HO - N.
I know this is old. Are you still around? Do you have any documentation or a description of how you did this?
Sound decoders and speakers have come a long way since 2011. Do you have a specific reason for wanting a boxcar installation? Because if all you want is good sound, you can get it with modern cell-phone-type "flat" speakers correctly mounted in a sealed enclosure that sits on the top of the frame (in diesel installations). You might need to do a little milling for this kind of installation, depending on the engine, but the advantage is that you don't have to have a specific boxcar following your engine around everywhere (and the sound will more clearly come FROM the engine, not from a car behind it). Here are a couple of samples for you to chew on. Alco DL109 with dual prime movers: Alco PA-1: EMD GP7 (567C prime mover) (you'll have to ignore the cat meowing in the background . . . ) You can see more examples of various sound installs on my YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCryHlnCSg_HXMoRcEupZWZw/ John C.
Thanks John! You know now that providing this information just volunteered you to be my go to guy for sound, don't you? It seems you settled on Loksound? That is what I was leaning towards myself, though I would like to experiment. Would you have a suggestion of something I can find now, new or used, that would be an engine to play with? I had seen things like the Kato #4850 SD70ACe CSX version, a Bachmann steam 4-6-0 51461 (though I would have to switch out the decoder and sound would come from the tinder), or any newer made (but older prototype) that has some details like ditch lights. I have seen amazing HO scale engines, but not sure that can all be done in N Scale; things like ditch lights that blink back and forth, directional lighting, and number boards that can all be controlled separately. But am also happy to just find an EMD GP7, FP7, E3 or F9 based on engines from 40s or 50s.
I have one sound equipped loco and one sound equipped reefer car and neither have been on the rails yet. When they do make it, I'm hoping they will sound okay. While I have heard HO sound equipped locos, I have not heard N scale so I really don't know what to expect yet but I'm not expecting digital hi-fi clarity either.
Those Nickle Plate geeps sound impressive. One thing I remember is the whine of the, I assume, traction motors but didn't really hear that.
Same here. I have O scale and the sound is phenomenal. You can actually fit a Bose Bluetooth speaker in a boxcar I have heard HO, but only some older modified engines at a local train show. I won't expect booming bass, but from what I have seen in John's videos, I think that will work perfectly for me. The only thing possibly beyond that would be if I worked on the JMRI/Virtual Sound Decoder algorithms and built a surround system with a subwoofer. Sound is a real science. The folks who make these decoders know how to sample and mix the sounds and use polyphonic DSPs to make realistic sound. It is not as simple as making a recording of one sound and just playing it back. For example, how do you model the slowly increasing chuff of a steam locomotive or the quilling of a whistle? How do you interrupt a horn by pressing the button again without it sounding like you chopped off the sound of the first horn? So doing all that and then using3D surround spatial techniques to mix audio among different channels for realistic placement and movement of the sound (along with a method like transponders to pinpoint the location of the trains) is one reason why the SurroundTraxx system starts at $500 just for the box.
The "whine" you mention is most audible when the engine goes into transition. Early versions of the 567 used manual transition, and I remember the sound - whine - of the traction motors as the engine revs dropped while the engineer flipped the levers to transition from series to parallel wiring (or was it the other way around?) from my childhood when I lived literally across the street from an Illinois Central branch line that was switched by IC GP7's and GP9's. Then EMD adopted automatic transition, and you didn't hear that whine as much. I used auto transition for these units, but the ESU sound file also does manual transition, and you can really hear that whine in manual transition mode between notches 3-4. John C.
