PECOS SWITCH PROBLEMS

SecretWeapon Oct 2, 2019

  1. SecretWeapon

    SecretWeapon Passed away January 23, 2024 In Memoriam

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    Has anyone here had problems with pecos switches lately? I put in an 18 track yard. All Pecos switches. Some large, most medium. I also used the switches throughout the layout. I run DC. So guys with DCC wouldn't notice a problem. Anyway, I used these for the power routing abilities. When I line a route, instead of one train moving, I get 2-3 moving on different tracks. There should be no feedback. In the past year, while building my layout, I'd just throw out a switch that didn't work. It was like 10 or more. Now I have a couple of more that are no good. I'm thinking of writing Pecos to let them know about my problems.
     
  2. bman

    bman TrainBoard Member

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    Peco is phasing out the both the electrofrog and insulfrog turnouts in favor of something they call Unifrog. I've no idea the difference but I did a quick internet reading on the Unifrogs and out of the box they act like an insulfrog. I'm guessing you usually use electrofrogs from Peco as I believe they route power like the Kato Unitrak turnouts do. Here's the link to the page I read up on the various Peco turnouts(I use Atlas code 55 track) Hope it helps https://dccwiki.com/PECO_Unifrog
     
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  3. Hardcoaler

    Hardcoaler TrainBoard Member

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    I've not much experience with Peco. Is it possible to remove one of the switches and check it alone with a meter or even dismantle it to see how Peco engineered the power routing?

    I had this problem one with another brand, but it was my fault stemming from a bad wiring scheme where I used the power routing from one turnout to feed adjacent tracks with some sort of wire-saving daisy-chain solution. My approach looked good on paper, but created some really weird results. I'm not suggesting that this is the source of your trouble.
     
  4. Hansel

    Hansel TrainBoard Member

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    I once had a similar problem with my Peco C55 Electrofrogs where I would throw the switch and both trains would run on the Normal and Reverse tracks. I vacuumed the switch and it worked fine afterwards. The only conclusion I can draw from my experiences was that there might have been some sort of metal debris (most likely originating from another source on my layout) electrifying both tracks. They had been working fine for the first 8 years prior to the incident and 5 years after.
     
  5. Inkaneer

    Inkaneer TrainBoard Member

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    What kind of switches are they, Code 80 or Code 55? If code 80 are they all insul-frog or electro-frog or a combination? If Code 55 did you install insulated joiners behind the frog?
     
  6. SecretWeapon

    SecretWeapon Passed away January 23, 2024 In Memoriam

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    code 80 insul-frog's
     
  7. Inkaneer

    Inkaneer TrainBoard Member

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    I use the C55 electro frog and have to place insulated joiners on both frog rails to prevent an electrical short. My understanding of the insulfrog switches is that the insulated joiners are not necessary as the plastic frog acts as an insulator and the polarity of the track beyond the frog on both tracks is the same as the polarity of the track in front of the frog due to jumpers underneath the switch. So both tracks are live all the time. With an electrofrog switch you can park an engine on the siding and it will not move PROVIDED that the siding does not rejoin the main and the switch is aligned for the main. Once the switch is thrown for the siding the siding is powered and the engine will move. On your insulfrog switches both the main and the siding are powered no matter if the siding rejoins the main or not and no matter which way the switch is thrown. To keep your engines on the siding from not running you need to isolate the siding with an insulated joiner then add a power feeder from an electrical switch to turn the power to the siding on or off. If that siding rejoins the main somewhere else you need to isolate the same rail there also or else you will have a short. As you point out in your original post this is a problem which affects analog DC but does not affect DCC because the DCC engine will not move until it receives a command to do so.
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2019
  8. NtheBasement

    NtheBasement TrainBoard Member

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    Pecos have been reliable for me. Without knowing the track plan and wiring plan its hard to say what the issue is. Is it just a big stub-ended ladder with the only the two throat rails wired, or do you have things like double-ended passing tracks or jumpers to some of the rails in the yard?
     
  9. BarstowRick

    BarstowRick TrainBoard Supporter

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    It's all about understanding how Peco switches are wired internally. Said another way: You need to know how any Peco switch is wired and what works best. I prefer the Electrofrog as I have older locomotives that stall out as they crossover any of the older Atlas plastic frog switches. So the big A switches are now history and Electrofrog switches are in. I have some Insulfrog and I have to watch these. They can at times require a jumper wire but I don't want to get into that here.

    I found I had to cut in isolation gaps on the rails leaving the frog on both the straight and diverging sides of the Electrofrog switch. I found later that if I were to use what many call block wiring this would solve my problems. If I had BarstowRick.com up and running, I have it illustrated as how this all works. I did that with illustrations from Peco as well as Several Internet Train Resources. You can find them, easy to do.

    I must admit I'm a little bit behind times. My layout is aging but It Works!! Other things have captured my attention and recovering from surgeries isn't always an easy thing to do. A move to Idaho, hasn't helped things. Except my layout will be moving from out of a metal train shed and into a controlled enviroment, live David's. It will take hours to restore it but worth all the effort when I'm done.

    Do check out the new ones Peco is putting out. See bmann's post above.

    Well, that's it from this "OLD FART," with the reputation of "The worst one out there". :rolleyes::whistle::confused:o_O thanks sidney.:cool: LOL

    You never know when and where I will be standing next to you and do a fresh one.
    You won't like it. :LOL::ROFLMAO::censored::p:D:eek:
    I don't!!!! Aiiyiiyii !!!
    What climbed up in there and died?
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2019
  10. mtntrainman

    mtntrainman TrainBoard Supporter

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    Turnouts....Mmmmmmmmmmmmmm....:p
     
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  11. sidney

    sidney TrainBoard Member

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    oh now old farts come in handy. there full of info ,,,, if you can pry it out of them...... hahahahahahahahahah like i got a lot to say im getting to the old fart area pretty darn fast.
    and im getting to where im pretty set in my ways ,as well . just ask the wife she said im stubborn and dont like to get new ideas either ... ill show her nect time she ask for half the potatoes to be peeled.
     
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  12. BarstowRick

    BarstowRick TrainBoard Supporter

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    Their switches, throw a switch, align the switch, switchman, sheez when are they going to learn? And don't call me a fart face. Sorry that comes from the other end. IOU one but I can't figure a way to ship it. :eek::oops::censored::p:D:LOL::sick: Oop's... I couldn't save it for you! :confused:o_O

    Now my cat's are running and ducking for cover. :unsure::(:confused::eek::rolleyes:
     
  13. BarstowRick

    BarstowRick TrainBoard Supporter

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    I don't know Sidney? Some old farts have verbal diarrhea. Here lately in abundance. Me, I'm talking about me. Heehee :whistle::sick::ROFLMAO::censored::cautious:
     
  14. SecretWeapon

    SecretWeapon Passed away January 23, 2024 In Memoriam

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    I was wrong, they are Electro-frogs.
     
  15. BarstowRick

    BarstowRick TrainBoard Supporter

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    Secret Weapon, not a problem, not to worry. According to all the frustrations we American train hobbyist have had with Peco Switches. Because, no one can read the directions they send out. I mean when do we guys read directions anyway. They came up with a generic switch that although it may make it less problematic for us. We may be loosing something here.

    Note to self must look into the new Peco switches.

    Yes, the Brit's call them Turnouts and that's perfectly appropriate if you are British. I'm:censored::censored: not!!!! Aiiyiiyii !!!

    Just like Metric. I resent the...well...out of it. :mad:
     
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  16. Inkaneer

    Inkaneer TrainBoard Member

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    Well I did some research on the 'switch' vs 'turnout' controversy and here is what I found: "Turnout refers to the entire assembly: the points; frog; guard rails, all the fixed rails, and the machine. The term is primarily used by the Track and Signal Departments. Switch refers to the moveable parts ONLY: the points and machine. The term is primarily used by the Operating Department." Now, no less an authority than the Atlas Mfg. Co. uses both terms in describing their track components. Now you may want to consider dropping both terms and substituting the term 'router'. After all isn't that what 'switches' and 'turnouts' do, change the route of a train? Anyway, while you are deliberating on which of those terms to use you may also consider the difference between a 'crossing' and a 'diamond' as well as the difference between 'N scale' and 'N gauge'. Hope that clears things up but I suspect it doesn't.
     
  17. BarstowRick

    BarstowRick TrainBoard Supporter

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    "Router" it is. Inkaneer wins this round. o_O

    I promise there will be more.:sick:
     
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  18. Rich_S

    Rich_S TrainBoard Member

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    What's even worse, in our rule books ( I'll not mention the name of the railroad I work for, to protect the innocent) you'll find both terms used, turnout and switch. In the location where I work, everyone uses the term switch. I've never heard anyone refer to them as turnouts and that includes the MOW department employees.

    Same thing holds true for crossing and diamonds, the various railroads across the country seemed to adopt different terms, sort of like how people in different regions of the country have different dialects. Then add the various slang on top of all that and you really have a free for all going on. How many slang names can you think of for the good old caboose, waycar, hack, cabin car, cab, crummy, etc.

    Now when it comes to N scale verses N gauge, the term seemed to be doomed from the beginning as the letter "N" was selected because it's 9mm between the rail heads i.e. 9mm gauge and Nine in German is Neun. What seems to be an accepted definition today is if you are in the UK and you modeling in 1:148 scale on 9mm track, it's referred to as N gauge. Most other countries modeling in 1:160 scale on 9mm track refer to it as N scale. Now I know the UK also has fine scale using a scale ratio of 1:152 on 9.42mm track and 1:160 on 9mm track that they call Fine Scale 160 or FS160. The same issue arises in Japan, where some modelers are modeling in 1:150 scale on 9mm track while others are using 1:160 scale on 9mm track. Oh the wonderful word of N gauge, I mean N scale :ROFLMAO:
     
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  19. mtntrainman

    mtntrainman TrainBoard Supporter

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    Thank You !!!! Been saying it for years. BarstowRick will never buy that but then again...he lives in Boise...:LOL::LOL::LOL::LOL::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
     
  20. BarstowRick

    BarstowRick TrainBoard Supporter

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    Funny guy! LOL What did I predict?

    DA. Where's my foot going? o_O:sick::p

    I don't live in Boise but on a clear day you can see it. I live in Nampa, Idaho, but I can assure you I'm none to happy about it. :unsure::(

    What I will buy into is what Rich S. said. More then anything we foamettes and foamers miss-use "Turnout". I prefer to keep with what the Rails call this "Router of a track section," thank-you Inkaneer, a "Switch," and leave "Turnout..." up to the engineering departments to screw-up.:confused:;):cool:

    Enjoy the upcoming weekend.
     

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