U18B, U30B models by Briggs!

daniel_leavitt2000 Jun 2, 2019

  1. daniel_leavitt2000

    daniel_leavitt2000 TrainBoard Member

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    Copying a thread from another site:

    After several requests Briggs Models is considering producing N scale body shells for the GE U18B and U30B. They will be designed for the Atlas GP-9 and U23B chassis respectively. We have the ability to all Phases of each Loco so please state what Road and Phase you are looking for.

    We will need a minimum of 40 orders of each type to make this project viable. We are expecting the price to be somewhere in the $110 (Canadian) each range and will include etched hand rails and detail parts. The modeler will need to supply the Atlas chassis.

    This is only an expression of interest/order list. No cash up front from anyone. Once the models have been completed and ready for purchase, I will contact you and it will be put it up for sale on the Briggs Models website. You will be able to order directly from the site by using PayPal, credit card, or by mail if desired. www.briggsmodels.ca

    If you are interested in having this kit produced please email me your contact information and the number of kits you might be interested in. Please feel free to pass this information on to anyone who may be interested or post elsewhere.

    Kind regards,

    Chris Dittmar
    Email: chrisd@briggsmanufacturingassociates.com
     
  2. Sharky_McSharknose

    Sharky_McSharknose TrainBoard Member

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    I'd be VERY interested in a U18B for Maine Central, but before I send an interest e-mail, I have a question. The GP9 is 56' 2" (17.12 m) in length. The U18B is 54' 8" (16.66 m) in length. Will there be any frame modification or fudging the shell dimensions involved to get the shell to fit over the frame?
     
  3. Jim Reising

    Jim Reising In Memoriam

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    Sharky:
    Strongly suggest you pose that question to Mr. Dittmar - who did not post the article and probably does not regularly check TB. I'm sure Chris will be happy to address your question if he is aware of it.
     
  4. M&E Alco

    M&E Alco TrainBoard Member

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    The more important question is truck centre length, which is 31'-8" for the U-18B verses 31'-0" for the Geep. 8", I could live with that for truck centres in most cases. 8" would be a big difference in hood or cab width, but length, not quite as big an issue in my book.
    Cheers
    Steve
     
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  5. Sharky_McSharknose

    Sharky_McSharknose TrainBoard Member

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    Will do. For some reason I thought OP was associated with Briggs. I will let folks here know what Chris D. at Briggs has to say about the length issue.
     
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  6. daniel_leavitt2000

    daniel_leavitt2000 TrainBoard Member

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    The truck centers are the key. From what I understand, they will use the GP9 chassis with some modifications to take the new shell. The total lengh of the model should be spot on.


    And no, I have no connection to Briggs models other than a very enthusiastic modeler.

    We have a Briggs thread over on the Railwire... you can see the kit quality is exceptional.
    https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=47138.0
     
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  7. randgust

    randgust TrainBoard Member

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    I get mildly irked when I see dimensional issues of under a foot start to dilute what is typically a pretty good idea into negativity that it's not 'right on'.

    Rule number one is that unless you want to pay for the tooling on a new frame, you'll deal with the best existing one that can be found. You may be able to print RP shells now that can meet injection molding for surface quality, but nobody has beaten the frames and mechanisms yet.

    I went round and round with this on my own CF7, and went with the Atlas GP7 Phase 1 as the base. Yes, it's too long. I added managed to get the overall length right, added about 6" right behind the cab. Trucks are spaced slightly further apart. The stock 'new' chassis, when reversed, fits perfectly with no modifications. The Atlas GP15 chassis, with the 'right' truck spacing, is an exercise in frustration that needs to be ground out to fit, and doesn't run all that well because of the lack of proper pickup wipers. The Atlas GP7 chassis, particularly with the new universals and a slow-speed motor, is just stellar and continues to evolve.

    You can have it look right or run right, can't always have both. I'd rather go with an adaptation on a truly superior chassis that has survivability for parts, DCC, and now sound. And the number one reason why the manufacturers haven't done this themselves isn't always the shells, it's the chassis tooling cost.

    This all tracks back to the admittedly awkward looking Atlas GP7 put on the RS3 chassis with the long body on the short frame. Yeah, that really looked bad. And it burned just about every manufacturer out there to either do it perfect or not do it at all. And, 'not do it at all' appears to have won in many cases. For a while (and started by that original GP7 mess), John Coots of N Scale of Nevada specialized in 'fixed' frames cast in lead, re-using existing chassis parts. Not enough to sustain sales.

    Asking or demanding that there's no compromises made in issues like this can effectively shut down a project before it ever starts. I'm really glad I decided to go ahead with mine anyway, I sold out everything I ever made, and will rerun them as soon as Atlas reruns the GP7 chassis. And that's a reminder as well.... even something as vanilla-basic as a GP7 is now waiting to be rerun in the long China pipeline.

    And while you can RP a shell on a one-to-one order basis, if you want to do a diesel model right, you're going to have a lot of etched parts like appropriate handrails and grabs, and those require a lot of design, testing, tooling, and up-front investment to do right. That's where I put my efforts now.

    I think we'll get to RP metal frames but you have a choice, and it's called perfection is the enemy of good.
     
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  8. Sharky_McSharknose

    Sharky_McSharknose TrainBoard Member

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    I apologize if my question came off that way. I didn't mean to go "rivet-counter" on this. I wasn't familiar with Brigg's kits until this announcement. Since the GP9 is longer than the U18B and the Atlas GP9 is only available with a high short hood, I wanted to know what sort of modifications are involved to fit the shell to the frame before I buy them. If the wheel base is only off by a few scale inches, I can live with that.

    I did some research on this because I was going to try and make U18B shells on my own once my 3D printing skills are up to snuff (that's not going to be for a while). A candidate frame I thought could work was the Atlas RS-1. The prototype RS-1 is almost identical in length to the U18B. I suggested it to Briggs in my interest e-mail, but I also told them the problems I found with it. I don't have a RS-1 in my fleet so I don't know how far off the truck base is from the U18B, it's probably significantly lighter than the GP9 frame, and they're DCC-unready. I'm certain the folks at Briggs know what they're doing and I will not be offended at all if they stick with the GP9 frame. I'm happy someone is making it at all. There seems to be a few U-boats that either have limited runs or were never made in N scale, and the Baby Boat is one of them. I've already given Briggs my interest in two MEC U18Bs when they are ready.

    I edited this post for clarity. I made it sound a bit aggressive at first, which wasn't my intent.
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2019
  9. randgust

    randgust TrainBoard Member

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    I did a custom build of an MRS1 off of a Kato RSC2 chassis and an RP-printed shell and it was such a great runner... but the axle spacing wasn't staggered. Decision was there to use the Atlas RSD4 or the Kato with the wrong axle spacing, figuring the right truck sideframes would hide it. I'd tried an Atlas, it was just so darn light. The Kato was a solid, and quiet, performer. Still took some frame grinding at the cabs. Results were Great, but I had about 20 things to fix to get there.

    What was annoying is that if the shell designer had ever even tried this, a few tweaks would have been obvious and made it a lot easier.

    Moral? Pick a chassis and design to it, including getting decent coupler pads, clearance for a 1015 box, clearance for pickup wipers. We'll all thank you in the process.
     

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