Question About Micro Trains Wheels

Pete Steinmetz May 17, 2019

  1. mtntrainman

    mtntrainman TrainBoard Supporter

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    Turnouts :p
     
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  2. Traindork

    Traindork TrainBoard Member

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    I like the look and sound of metal wheels. So metal wheels it is for me.
     
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  3. BarstowRick

    BarstowRick TrainBoard Supporter

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    $%#@*%^&
    They are switches, they've always been switches and will always be switches. Darn Toy Train Enthusiast.
    :mad::eek::rolleyes:o_O
     
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  4. BarstowRick

    BarstowRick TrainBoard Supporter

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    Here we go!:sick:;)

    The gunk is actually "Environmental Build-Up" as coined by the cleaning professionals. It is a mix of particulate in the air with everything from pollen (which can be sticky) to detergent based cleaning products (which can also leave a sticky residual) to pet and human hair, dander, dirt and powders with grease and oils (we use to lubricate things with) being the binder. Pollen, of which there is a lot of in the air right now just ask your nose and bronchial tubes. Household dust is anything and everything that can float. Then there's spills from humans as well as pet's and can collect in edges and corners of your carpet or hardwood floors. Kitty litter is a great provider of dust. Linens, clothes and it doesn't matter what kind of material, it breaks down and leaves pesky fur balls. Check under your bed or your dryer filter, if you don't believe me. And that dryer can be a real source of...what else.

    The shorts are between blocks typically on Analog DC layouts where you are operating with Cab A and Cab B. If you have plastic rail joiners in place to isolate Cab A from Cab B as in block wiring, and you want to flip the polarity when coming out of a Wye or Reversing Loop, then the metal wheels crossing over from one block to the other can short your train out. If you aren't savvy to that, then you find yourself scratching your head and wondering why?

    Incidentally I don't use plastic rail joiners, I cut in my own gaps and never on the switch mechanism. More on this if you need it.

    The short's can happen with any switch, at the points. Has nothing to do with DCC or Analog DC or DCC friendly. It happens more often with power routed switches but can happen with any of them. One of the reasons most of us, if we are using metal wheels, we want to run with a narrow tire and flange. Properly gauged wheel sets as well. So a lot of us put in a lot of time with routine maintenance checking gauge and so on.

    Not sure where the science came from as to plastic being the culprit. It could be but I haven't seen any lab reports. Kind of costly to secure such. I've seen worn out metal wheels as well as plastic wheels. Again a toss up. The wearing, I'm sure that would leave something behind. I've found broken wheels (plastic and metal) on both my N and HO scale layouts. So, I'd agree it's possible but I'm not willing to hang my hat on it, as being the absolute culprit. Just depends on how much run time they have on the tires, as to how much wear your going to see.

    Again one of those reasons you find most of us vacuuming our layouts, cleaning the track habitually and having track cleaning cars with homemade Masonite (hard board aka pegboard) pads, running around our layouts.

    Do note I haven't addressed traction tires (rubber composition) or Bull Frog Snot a commons sense replacement for traction tires. Those rubber traction tires wear out faster then anything I've ever seen on any layout. I don't care what gauge. I can get into this more, if needed.

    Just elaborating!:cool:

    I hope that helps.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2019
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  5. mtntrainman

    mtntrainman TrainBoard Supporter

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    I do like the 'sound' of metal wheels on metal rails. The 'click-clack' at rail joints is one of the soothing sounds of the hobby. Plastic wheels click and clack too...just at a different pitch. ;)

    I railfan at the station in Flagstaff AZ. After the roar of the locomotives have passed...the wheels 'clickity-clackity' over the rail joints in front of the station is the best part. Along with flange squeel of course. JMO(y)
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2019
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  6. BNSF FAN

    BNSF FAN TrainBoard Supporter

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    I had forgotten about the change to the flange shape as well. Was definitely a change for the better.
     
  7. BNSF FAN

    BNSF FAN TrainBoard Supporter

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    Count me in on liking the sound of the metal wheels.
     
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  8. BarstowRick

    BarstowRick TrainBoard Supporter

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    I saw you the other night waiting for #3 SWC to come in. You were out there waving at the camera and hanging out with the other hooligans. LOL:ROFLMAO::LOL::D

    With welded rail you don't hear much clickity clack anymore. With the shorter rails it used to be deafening. I can say I miss that.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2019
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  9. Mike C

    Mike C TrainBoard Member

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    I run only metal wheels and only rarely clean track or wheels. I do run almost every day though......Mike
     
  10. BarstowRick

    BarstowRick TrainBoard Supporter

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    That's the answer right there. Running every day. Still your wheels can and will collect dirt requiring you to remove the gunk from time to time.

    Wheel cleaning: Can be done physically by using a small screw driver. Be careful not to scratch the tire surface. You can follow that by putting a paper towel down over the track with rubbing alcohol on it and glide the car over it. This will pull off any remaining residual.

    For track cleaning: Another plus is if you are using a Masonite wiper under a box car, it too will pick-up the dirt and is easy to clean. I usually spot these cars at the front of the train. The drag can be significant.

    Another thing I do is I have a track cleaning train. I put a car that has a foam wiper under it, pour a bit of rubbing alcohol on it, put it in front of the diesels. Two each. Then I take my reefer cars with the homemade Masonite pads tied on behind them. Sometimes a work caboose tags along for the ride. It looks like a Santa Fe work train and cleans the track as it pushes it's way around the layout. To get some idea as to how often. In my train shed, considering the environment, once a week.

    Just sitting here bored out of my skull and thought I'd throw this out there for your consideration.
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2019
  11. mtntrainman

    mtntrainman TrainBoard Supporter

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    Just a thought here. Use a coffee filter (new). Paper towel will shred and the small lint fibers will get everywhere. This is especially true when cleaning locomotive wheels this way...JMHO
     
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  12. randgust

    randgust TrainBoard Member

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    Along with the 'running every day' there's something to be said for a 'plow train'. We may not have N scale snow, but it helps to have a consist of power that is so darn heavy that it will pretty much polish the railheads into submission.

    I have an 8-track hidden staging yard that's really difficult to get into. It can be cleaned by hand, but it's much easier just to run the 'plow train'. That consists of a set of Kato "original" F-units, ABBA. Even if the lead unit stalls, the other three push it through. A few laps of that through the storage yard tracks, and it's almost as effective as actual track cleaning for results on everything else. There's something to be said for heavy locomotives in this day of sound and DCC cutouts.

    And in testing my 'new/old' Jamco 4-6-2 with the cast brass boiler - that thing is just a brick - it's had the same impact on the track. Visibly cleaner.

    A good friend of mine has another one, he DELIBERATELY mismatches two locomotives as a track-cleaning pair so that the lead unit is horribly too fast, along with a 'brick' locomotive behind it. Lead unit is in full slip around the layout, usually spinning it's wheels trying to drag the brick around. Rather effective, as long as the lead unit holds up in the service.
     
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  13. BarstowRick

    BarstowRick TrainBoard Supporter

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    That's true! Then you have a repeat performance or you could say job security.

    And what Randqust said. These are all viable track and wheel cleaning procedures.

    I can hear U.P. whistling for the crossing west of town. Sounds like they are coming in hot. Polishing their rails.
     
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  14. BarstowRick

    BarstowRick TrainBoard Supporter

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    Last night I was thinking about what we've talked about here. About the time I was pulling the covers back, to go to bed, it hit me. The one draw back to slipping wheels, is the wear and tear to the wheels as well as track. Just like the 1:1 foot scale. Tires wear out as does the rails. Although, we don't see it to the same degree in model railroading it can still happen. Keeping the rails and tires polished off should be our first concern. For example not using sand paper to clean them or metal tooth brushes to clean the wheels. These will scratch the surface of both and dirt just loves those grooves to hide in. Remember it's what we don't see in as in microscopic things that can shoot us down in the small scales we work in.

    Now you've been fully advised and can have a better understanding.

    Later!
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2019
  15. sumfred

    sumfred TrainBoard Member

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    Am in the process of converting all of my 275 cars to MTL metal wheels (most have MTL brown trucks). I found that the cars roll better on the metal wheels and I can back up a string of cars through Kato # 4 switches without a single derailment, which would have been a problem with the plastic wheels. I too like the sound. Up here in Canada we go metric, I found that the metal wheels add about 2 grams to the car (standard 4 axle)
    Also I noted less black gunk on the rails.
    Fred
     
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  16. Onizukachan

    Onizukachan TrainBoard Supporter

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    Rubbing alcohol is polar (and includes water!) and contributes to micro-arcing which is the black buildup.
    Consider using a different solution Rick...
    Borrowing this from MRHM...

    Polar solvents (less ideal for cleaning electronic contacts):

    • Isopropyl alcohol
    • Ethyl alcohol
    • MEK
    • Acetone
    • Ammonia
    • Water
    Semi-polar solvent (better than polar solvents)

    • Ethyl acetate
    Non-polar solvents (best for cleaning electronic contacts)

    • Kerosene
    • Turpentine
    • Mineral spirits
    • Toluene
     
  17. Doug Gosha

    Doug Gosha TrainBoard Member

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    In my younger years, I was a fanatic at cleaning wheels. I didn't want to see any black on them. I don't really care now. It doesn't really affect anything and the track seems to keep clean without cleaning it much, these days.

    Doug
     
  18. BarstowRick

    BarstowRick TrainBoard Supporter

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    First I agree with Richard M., and his presentation.

    The product I use may need clarification.
    I use 91% Isopropyl alcohol. As strong as I can buy it.

    I don't use Goo Gone. Your just asking for trouble.

    What Doug G., said is true wheel cleaning and track cleaning isn't the problem it was during the 60's with brass rails and steel wheel compositions. Nickel Silver has made a decided impact on our model railroading, today.
     
  19. bill pearce

    bill pearce TrainBoard Member

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    I've seen plenty of examples of delrin wheels shedding thin layers.
     
  20. locomcf

    locomcf TrainBoard Member

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    Do the plastic wheels have pizza-cutter flanges?

    I would believe that of pizza-cutter wheels. I used to have lots of problems pushing cars with pizza-cutters through turnouts, but I rarely have any trouble at all since swapping them out for MTL standard" medium flange wheels. I believe that it is the wheel geometry that makes the difference, not the material that the wheel is made from.
     
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