3rd KATO has died...a bit frustrating at the failure rate.

WFOJeff Jan 13, 2019

  1. WFOJeff

    WFOJeff TrainBoard Member

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    • Does anyone have any experience sending returns back to KATO?
    Their website explaining returns sure does leave one wondering about the turn around time whether it is 6 weeks or 6 months.

    My personal history with KATO engines:
    I Originally purchased my first 2 KATO SD70ACe DCC #8444, 8512 - 1 dies within 6 months next one sputters within a year (limited use).
    Fortunately Rick Brodzinski came to the rescue and remedied the issues.

    Have also purchased 2 DC units (SD70M #4843 and AC4400CW #6717 which Rick has installed ESU DCC/Sound.

    The problem engine now is - an AMTRAK SDP40F purchased July last year, I occasionally run it to pull the Southwest and a few other cars, 2 weeks ago it was hit or miss if it was going to respond, today when I had the time it is now completely dead. (for such limited use this was bad also-maybe 5 hours of use)
    I gave it the once over - wheels are clean and I can't figure how to get the shell off - front is stuck tight.

    I have just recently purchased two KATO DCC/Sound units SD70M #4848 (9/26/18) and the SD70ACe Spirit of the Union Pacific #1943 (12/07/18).
    (Crossing my fingers these hold up-my guess is they do with the ESU decoders)
    • 7 KATOS purchased with 3 failures and perhaps have avoided 2 more failures with the replaced ESU sound decoders.
    In my opinion Folks tend to praise KATO product but I'm not too sure anymore - especially when they only honor their product for 60 days.
    It might be going forward the only reasonable KATO engine purchases will be with ESU decoders.

    Actually just edited post - forgot the AMtrak is an ESU unit...so much for the above theory.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2019
  2. BarstowRick

    BarstowRick TrainBoard Supporter

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    A different Rick here, the other Rick.

    You can't do better then having Rick B. on your side. Adding: There are plenty of us Rick Type's who are willing to help-out a fellow model railroader.

    First rule of thumb: Nothing gets a way without routine maintenance and an occasional rebuild. Another rule is, they never die they just get drug down the track and hauled off the layout.

    Most of the problems with my Kato motors are electrical tabs. A slight re-adjustment, making sure they make contact and I'm back-up and running.

    I purchased a number of used Kato locomotives from the 90's. A couple of U Boats, GP's, F's and E's. I dropped-in some new electric motors and put them back in service. Made a nice dent on the roster. They still pull nice that is when I can find a place to run them. Everything I have is Analog DC and the club layout is DCC only. Long story but my layout is sitting in pieces in yet another shed. Move to Idaho, thing.

    I've never had the problems with Kato's brand of products or with Kato helping me resolve the problems. When compared with the early B-mann, Life L., M. Power, Tricky X and other less then equipment. Upside I can do the same thing with them and they are back out making money on my layout. Okay, nix on the money but you got to have a story line. I've even taken the Kato electric motors and dropped them into the aforementioned units and they ran sweet. But not without some difficulty making them fit or aligning the shafts.

    You can do the same thing. If you don't know how? Hang in there with Rick B. and he will show you what to do and keep you rolling. There I go making promises someone else may not be able to keep. Oh the shame!!!!! :sick::sneaky::LOL:

    Oh, and Jeff, this retired mortician can help you out if they've truly died. I said with a sheepish grin. Let's see let me get my price list out. What? What? What did he say?
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2019
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  3. WFOJeff

    WFOJeff TrainBoard Member

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    Hi Rick H.,
    I was going to attempt to see if under the shell there was something obvious, I removed the gas tank shell and handrails at the rear slowly starting to raise the shell at the rear and the front just won't come unattached - it almost looked like they put some spot glue up near the front porch/deck on both sides(?)
    I decided instead of ruining it to stop...but now the front won't sit firmly at the front porch/deck(?)

    The shell seems squishy/springy even before I started to do anything - sort of like too much is under it...perhaps wires were misrouted...and have broke.
    Thanks for responding.
    PS I agree KATO makes strong engines which was part of my interest - but longevity has me frustrated.
     
  4. MK

    MK TrainBoard Member

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    Jeff, are you referring to the Amtrak SDP40F here? It sounds like you are. If you are, I just did a decoder install (non-sound) for a club member a few weeks ago. I've done many but this model is THE hardest that I've encountered. Took me 30 mins just trying to remove the shell and I knew where the locking tabs are!

    Check TCS' website to look at some close up pictures.

    http://tcsdcc.com/installation/n-scale/kato-emd-sdp40f/k7d4

    Where my hang up was and probably yours too, is the front locking tabs. They are a b$tch to locate and unlock. With this model Kato incorporated the tabs as part of the windshield insert!!!! And if you try to insert something thin to release it, 9 out of 10 times you end up going in front of the windshield and not releasing the locking tabs. This is being done completely blind of course (thus my 30 mins)!!!! NOTE: where the pictures above show the locations of the front locking tabs, I found them to be a little bit further back than pictured.

    You just have to keep at it until you get lucky and get the shim between the tabs and the frame. Oh, if you finally get the tabs to release and pull off the shell, don't be alarmed when a million pieces fall apart, like the windshield and light pipe. They go back pretty easy. It's the only Kato that I have messed with that does this explosion trick! :D
     
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  5. BarstowRick

    BarstowRick TrainBoard Supporter

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    The main problem I have with Kato's is the cat hair they attract. No fault of it's own but when felines own me, that's what happens. Need to figure way to keep my buddies off the layout and the shed hair from floating through the air.

    Now to your problem. Did you buy the Kato used? Then if the answer is no. I'm thinking it may have been a broken, spot glued... return they simply put back out for re-sale. Did I say there are no guarantee's anymore? I wish I had it here to see with my one good eye (cataract surgery went well). Most of the time you don't find glue spots on the interior of a Kato motor shell or chassis. Hummm? Right there with you.

    Exploding engine? I thought Lionel already did that.

    You'll need to have Rick B. take a look at it. He has a better chance of helping you then I do.

    The best!
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2019
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  6. WFOJeff

    WFOJeff TrainBoard Member

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    Good info, thanks for link...yes Amtrak SDP40F - the hidden tabs are scaring me now :eek: :ROFLMAO:
    Thank you
     
  7. WFOJeff

    WFOJeff TrainBoard Member

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    Brand new from online retailer I won't mention - but they have always been a great store and will accept anything back within 30 days (postage paid).
    I was thinking about the apparent little glue spot and the same thing if it was a used model...heck even from KATO restock.

    We do have dog hair and lint that finds it way on my layout in the garage but since Rick B. pointed that out once I have spent good money and time on keeping clean and rails dirt free.
    I have a dedicated engine to run 3 clean cars each time before I proceed to run anything else on the layout - 1 wiper in front for the hair/lint and back of the MOW engine I have a wet and a dry car.

    I had not wanted to bother Rick B. about this KATO but faced with the unknown KATO return I may seek his support.
     
  8. BarstowRick

    BarstowRick TrainBoard Supporter

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    Jeff, off subject.
    Is the bridge hwy 84 still being used?
    I thought I heard it was dismantled or was going to be and possibly rebuilt.
    Also, is the old WP bridge still there and or in use?
    Seems to me that was torn down years ago.
     
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  9. DCESharkman

    DCESharkman TrainBoard Member

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    Sorry to hear of your troubles with Kato. I have literally seen just the opposite. My heavy failure rate locomotives are all Atlas. I am still running E units form the mid 1990's and they are still amazing runners. My biggest issue with Kato is the steam locomotives which I will never buy again. Brand new GS-4's with the drivers out of quarter from the factory. Contacted Kato and they wanted to charge $250 to look at and repair the brand new locomotives. I still buy their diesels, but no more steamers.
     
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  10. brokemoto

    brokemoto TrainBoard Member

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    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^this^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

    I do not use DCC. I am running first generation prototype dieseasels, so I do not have the models that Original Poster cites. I have seen this on occasion on the F-units, RDCs, PAs, NW-2s, more frequently on the E-units and on every third RS-2/RSC-2 that I have owned. On one RSC-2, I even had to put a shim to keep the motor tabs from losing contact.



    Call T Bird Services; 'teeping abewwant bad ol' puddy 'tats under contwol since 1942. Call to-day for a fwee estimate!

    [​IMG]
     
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  11. WFOJeff

    WFOJeff TrainBoard Member

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    The old draw bridge (I believe WP) has not been used for many years now.

    This video of a rail line is out near the bay there but no longer crosses the draw bridge.


    The 2 lines through niles canyon: WP line is the Historic Niles Canyon line, the other is heavily used UP.

    I am right near old 84 & Thornton ave. where the tracks head North (Oakland)- South (San Jose)- East (through Niles Canyon)- West bound track now only goes out to the Cargill salt plant (ex Morton), I don't think the old FMC plant is active with railcars...Quite a bit of UP/CalTrain/Amtrak traffic in this area.
    The small rail yard nearby for local business that is quite active here.

    Cargill
    http://www.industrialrailways.com/portfolio/cargill-project-newark-ca

    Near my home (y)
    Just in case there is a link to this off the topic thread of my KATO UP 1943 for reference - see youtube video for enjoyment


    I've not gone to watch trains over in this area for awhile. I do catch many running through Niles Canyon.
     
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  12. RBrodzinsky

    RBrodzinsky November 18, 2022 Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter In Memoriam

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    Jeff,

    I will be home mid week, you can bring the problem loco. My guess, the contact strips are mis aligned
     
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  13. brokemoto

    brokemoto TrainBoard Member

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    I have seen that problem on more than one locomotive of all of the manufacturers. It seems to happen more with diseasels than steam. With steam, whatever is holding the contact strips in the tender comes undone.
     
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  14. WFOJeff

    WFOJeff TrainBoard Member

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    Thank you Rick.
    I Found this aide to help me understand the removal of the shell.


    However after placing the shell back on the frame the shell does not fit flat any longer sort of high in the center and you end of having a kind of rocking motion - hence my thinking the adhesive applied towards the front.

    Anyhow, the problem is not so clear to me. Contacts appear to be springy and in order...will leave up to your expertise.

    20190113_125716.jpg 20190113_131221.jpg 20190113_131234.jpg
     
  15. brokemoto

    brokemoto TrainBoard Member

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    While insufficient "springiness" (is there such a word?) or, up and down tension, if you will, on the contact strips can be a source of contact problems, the culprit is more often misalignment due to the side-to--side movement of the aforementioned contact strips. What happens is that one or more of the ends of the strips moves either too far to the outside or too far to the inside of the locomotive chassis. As a result, the nub that sticks up from the truck to make contact with the previously mentioned contact strip don't make no contact. As the vagaries of trackwork can cause the locomotive to sit funny, add to that the misaligned contact strips and what happens is that two of the strips on the same pole lose all contact with the trucks which causes the circuit to open and the locomotive to stall.

    The manufacturers have tried several slight changes in construction methods to address this and have gotten mixed results.
     
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  16. BarstowRick

    BarstowRick TrainBoard Supporter

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    Thanks for the comeback. Enjoyed the videos.
     
  17. SecretWeapon

    SecretWeapon Passed away January 23, 2024 In Memoriam

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    I run DC. I have over 400 Kato engines. I've had only two problems in over the years. The Daylight GS-4 & the Mikado. The Mikado I sent back & they fixed it free of charge. The GS-4 I had problems with the side drivers staying in. The pins kept coming out.
     
  18. WFOJeff

    WFOJeff TrainBoard Member

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    Going on the faith of my fellow Trainboarders that have provided encouragement for me I have purchased a new KATO. (assuming just my bad luck with failure rate)

    Kato N 1768522-LS SD70ACe with Nose Headlight, Union Pacific #9088 (ESU LokSound DCC Installed)

    KAT-1768522-LS SD70ACe with Nose Headlight, Union Pacific RD# 9088.jpg
     
  19. MK

    MK TrainBoard Member

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    The ESU was factory installed? I think you will have good luck on this one. :)
     
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  20. WFOJeff

    WFOJeff TrainBoard Member

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    Yes, this is a Kobo with ESU LokSound 90861 Select Micro Decoder Installed.

    Great confidence in the ESU product line so I am more inclined now as others have noted about the contact strip alignment - my initial view after shell removal without further disassembly "appear" good - but I am leaving this to Rick Brodzinsky with much more knowledge and experience than I.

    He has resolved my other 2 KATO issues in the past (y)
     

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