Options for a Santa Fe 4-8-4 Northern

I do not model the steam era but I have decided I need to add a Santa Fe excursion train headed up by a 4-8-4 Northern that would have existed on the Santa Fe. I am aware of several manufactures that currently make an N scale 4-8-4 loco but I am not up to speed on all the various models that may be available. Looking for some help from those who know a lot more than I do about the options for an N scale Santa Fe 4-8-4.
Here is what I am looking for...
1) Must be DCC compatible. Prefer a drop in decoder but might consider a loco that is not too difficult to install a wired in decoder
2) Needs to accommodate a sound decoder.
3) Prefer a good quality unit even if it cost a bit more. I am not into brass ($$$) but I don't want a cheap and unreliable loco. Reliable operation is a must.
4) Current production is preferred but willing to search and wait for an older model to become available if an older model is highly desirable. If an older model is suggested, give me some pointers on the good/bad/ugly to watch out for.
5) I understand that the Santa Fe had various versions of the 4-8-4 over the years. In the later years of production, they made improvements that made the 4-8-4. I would prefer a loco that represents the later period.
6) Since I model the Santa Fe, I would prefer a loco already marked for the Santa Fe. However, if a suitable loco is right for the Santa Fe but has another RR markings, I can deal with that.

If I strike out on meeting all my preferences, I am willing to shift to another steam loco even if it never existed on the Santa Fe. I know that is heresy to hard core Santa Fe modelers but the rest of my layout is loosely based on the Santa Fe but has variations anyway so this shift is not impossible for me.

HELP!

 

Thanks.

Guess that is why I was it was so hard for me to find what I was looking for. ​

Looks like the brass would need a lot of help to run good under DCC and the Bachmann lacks the detail I would prefer, I may need to reconsider my options.
Since my excursion train is totally fiction and I am the only train savvy person to see my layout, I may decide to make a bigger leap and go for something different with great looks and operations. I like the Kato GS-4 (4-8-4) and it would be easy to fix the lettering on the BNSF version.

 

For some reason that no one understands, there has never been a model of a ATSF 4-8-4 made. Since the often heard complaint is that everything ATSF is out there but not (fill in the blank) many of us find this strange at best.

But then again, N scale steam ahs always been the bridge too far. I wish you the best of luck. I know that some modelers have had good luck making the brass steam run well, but the skill level required is high.

 

I am not a steam person, but you might be better off starting with a Kato FEF3 and using the Bachmann ATSF tender.

 

Brass - I have the right skills but not the time or patience. Too many other things n my plate.
FEF-3 - I looked at it but prefer the Kato GS-4. Neither is a ATSF prototype but I like the looks of the GS-4 better. It is available in a BNSF version which is all black except for several small BNSF logos that can be removed. I love the looks of the GS-4 in UP Daylight colors but that color combo is not even close to anything I can imaging that the ATSF might have done.

 

Which Santa Fe Northern are you looking for? 2900s, 3700s, etc? What I’m doing is grafting a resin casting to a Bachmann mechanism. The mechanisms are relatively accurate to the 2900s and are really cheap.

 

Then they should work well enough for any of them.

Visually, there are only four choices:

3751-3764 as built (1928) with 73" spoke drivers, air pumps on the side, and large, conventional tenders.

3751-3764 as rebuilt (1938) with decent imitations of 80" Baldwin box drivers, accessories behind shields on the pilot beam and (first Elesco, later Worthington) feedwater heaters atop the smokebox, and 20,000 gallon (water) "square" tenders. This rebuild was intended to make them look and act as much as possible like the 3765 Class. The drivers are similar and the wheelbase identical.

3765-3775 (1937) with actual Baldwin box drivers, cleaner lines and "square" tenders.

3776 Class (1941) and 2900 Class (1943-'44), nearly identical to the 3765s except for eight axle, 25,000 gallon (water) tenders. Visual differences between these classes literally comes down to a couple of pieces of pipe. The 2900s were heavier due to wartime material restrictions (Baldwin had to substitute carbon steel for nickel steel) and lacked the roller bearing rods some earlier units had (though they got them after the war).

3764 wound up unique. It got the Santa Fe's only Franklin poppet valves. 3765 started out unique. It was built with a solid pilot, stainless hand rails and a stainless tender brake wheel. It was to be streamlined in the "Blue Goose" style, but that was canceled when 3766 was delivered overweight.

That's about it for variety. It was hard to tell any of them apart by the running gear. The Bachmann drivers actually look more like the wheels used on the 3751 rebuilds than the BLW boxpoks on the 3765/3776/2900 classes. None of the Bachmann tenders look much like Santa Fe tenders.

There are several survivors, but 3751 and 2926 are the only ones that run.

 

Correct. The poppet locomotives were testbeds for experimental valve gear types.

 

Back in the 70's I got a first-run Bachmann 4-8-4 and spent a ridiculous amount of time improving it, including moving all the electronic pickup into the locomotive with new pickup wipers and getting the drag out of the tender, putting all-metal drivers on it from a second locomotive for parts, adding detail and fixing appearance glitches, and repainting it. It ran "OK" in forward and sounded like a wood chipper in reverse, I could get that cup gear almost tolerable one way but not the other. It's redeeming value was that it tracked rock-solid, never derailed.

But it kind of looked like crap. So when I got older I decided that if I was to have at least one brass steamer, it would be the preserved 3751. I watched the auction sites for a long time and finally picked one up at a reasonable (now dirt-cheap!) price, a Hallmark 3751, painted, smaller tender.

While it looked stunning, it wouldn't handle my 15" curves with that long fixed wheelbase and flanged drivers. So that's something you don't have in your criteria but you should, beware that these babies are BIG, and will test your trackwork skills and curves to the max. Mine sat in a display case for three years before I finally got up the courage to do anything. And when I did.... it was total. Blind the center drivers, put in a flywheel, change the drawbar, tune it up, and it worked. It now handles 11" curves, is smooth and steady, and pulls hard. That's my 'excursion' engine just like your concept.

One of the modelers here with extraordinary casting skills has done a resin boiler and tender of what I think is a 2900 class to fit on the chassis of a Kato 4-8-4, either the Daylight or the UP FEF. It's a beautiful casting. I got one, but it looks like I'll never actually use it, I'm quite happy with what I've got and don't really need a second one. PM me if you want photos, I could be convinced to trade for it or sell. That's the best compromise between a proven DCC Kato chassis and a decent body shell that needs painted and decalled. May be worth looking into.

And if you check Spookshow, you'll see that there are about four flavors of the Bachman and while they all might have that same boiler casting, the mechanisms were vastly upgraded. I had the worst-first one.

 

I am not in any way a steam expert, as I model 1966, but someone whose judgement I trust once told me that the Key model has an undersized boiler and is woefully inaccurate. I'm willing to accept his judgement, as it saves me a lot of money.

 

Randgust, could I purchase said resin shell from you?

 

What gets me is that Bachmann has redone almost all of their steam with new shells and mechanisms. Even the excellent N&W J got a new mechanism but the 4-8-4 continues with the same basic 1970s era shell although there have been changes to the mechanisms over the years. Makes one wonder.

 

Indeed. If Bachmann produced an updated version of their Santa Fe 4-8-4 with a shell of the quality they've produced in steam in recent years, they would sell a lot of units.

 

I am not a modeler, but am a real (12 inch to the foot scale) steam fan. Here is a photo of an ATSF 2900, and they were very handsome locomotives. It might give you some idea of an existing model to start with.

 

Back in ... 2012-13 Jason "Superturbine" was making those resin castings of ATSF 4-8-4 boilers, I traded for one. Really, really good. The design was intended to go over a Kato GS-4 mechanism. I'd say the detail and execution was right up there with brass. Anyway, as I'm rather happy with my rebuilt Hallmark, and now went into the 3400-class Pacific as my next major steam project, I sold that resin boiler to another member here. Jason did a bunch of conversions like that and had some of the same luck I did, about the time you figure out how to do it right, Kato comes up behind you and issues the locomotive, only they never did the ATSF 4-8-4. Anyway, looking at the old pictures of what people were doing with Jason's castings on a Kato GS, don't forget about that, but it's been a while since he posted on the forums. There are videos out there of his other stuff on YouTube under "superturbine", all older, aka "Tomball Locomotive Works". There's also an old thread out there with pretty much the same questions and issues:

http://www.trainboard.com/highball/index.php?threads/at-sf-northern.68802/

 

Pdavidson, "Help" is right on.

Seems like you've gotten the answer...sss to your questions and I couldn't agree more.

I've said this time and time and time before, NO more B-mann 4-8-4's. Aiiyiiyii !!!!!

Kato, YES KATO, let's get busy and put out a#2921 like the one in Fitz's post.
I will eat oat meal for a month to afford one of those.

Good question and I'm glad you asked it.

 

As the OP, I settled for a Kato GS-4 in the all black BNSF. Added a ESU sound package to it and I am well pleased with it. Does not have a big Santa Fe plastered on the tender but that may come later. Since I wanted this for an excursion train, I am not trying to decide what type/color cars to use. I want something with good colors but with names that can be easily removed or painted over to represent my imaginary Santa Fe excursion train. I want something with a common look. I don't care for the mixed bag of fruit setups I typically see on the UP excursion trains.

 

Seriously odd statement...
When have you EVER seen a 'mixed bag of fruit setups' on a UP excursion train?...UP excursion trains, unlike most ALL others, are UNIFORMLY Armor yellow and harbor mist gray...

 

Mr. OP

I like your choices. You aren't as likely to go wrong with a Kato locomotive as you will with the others.

I need to find the video I own, before I get into talking about a prototype situation for your fantasy train. Mr. Doyle took his GS4, a 1:1 foot scale and painted it black, lettered it for the BNSF and hauled a number of older BN double decker computer style coaches as well as some older BN and AT&SF passenger cars around Washington and Oregon for the better part of a summer. All at the request and expense of the BNSF railroad.

Found it: Steam Across The Pacific Northwest, put out by Pentrex. BNSF Employee Appreciation Special. If you can find it, you can always develop a story line around it and you can say, see I'm not so far off the mark after all.

I run fantasy trains on my layout as well. Norfolk & Western with the B-mann J series. Funny but I've had fellow model railroaders dumping their N&W and N&S stuff on me ever since they learned such. So no more please.

Interesting your remarks about UP and their trains. I think what you are talking about is the Private Varnish Trains you've seen Amtrak haul around. I have a video for that as well. That does look like what some have called a Circus Train. Although most circus trains operated sets of uni-formally painted passenger sleepers, baggage cars and an occasional dining car. Along with all the flats to haul the circus gear, out door pavilions, infamous wagons and etc.