Help! Gluing track directly on top of paper template...?

Michael Doleman Apr 6, 2018

  1. Michael Doleman

    Michael Doleman TrainBoard Member

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    So I have what I think might be a silly question, but I'll ask it anyway.

    I have everything I need to start-in on actually building my permanent layout: design is complete, bench is built, all track and supplies purchased and waiting.

    I used RailModeler Pro to design my layout, and that software offers a very nicely-formatted, printed output, in a 1:1 scale. I've got my layout printed out on 16 pages, and it fits-up perfectly on my bench. It serves as a really great way to get the track layout accurate and positioned correctly.

    My entire benchtop is a flat base-layer of foam insulation (2"), and I can't think of a truly expedient way to get the layout transferred to the surface. So I was thinking: why not just paste the paper down to the foam, and then glue the track down onto that? I'm probably just going to use caulk to secure the track.

    There's the obvious problem that the bond will only be as strong as the sheet of paper, but I'm not so sure that's a big deal. I feel that I could just get some heavier-weight paper to use -- it actually might make for a better surface, for all I know.

    Does anyone see serious issues with this approach? Any better way of transferring the track pattern to the board?
     
  2. HOexplorer

    HOexplorer TrainBoard Supporter

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    Interesting. Yes, the bond to the paper would give me pause. If this is all going down on foam in my layout room I would lightly adhere the paper plan to the foam with 3M 77. Lightly. Then I would trace with a stylus or smalll handle tip of a small paint brush. Run it down the center of your track plan. This will indent into the foam. Rip up the paper and you can Sharpie the indent if you want for better visability.

    The reasoning here is adhesion, and the fact that seldom will laying on the plan paper work out in the end. Something will be off! Better to lay your track on the indent. This allows for adjustments here and there. Trust on this, adjustments will have to be made. 'Best laid plans and all that.' Jim
     
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  3. trainman-ho

    trainman-ho TrainBoard Member

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    Seamstresses and tailors use a wheel like tool to transfer patterns from paper to material. A wheel on a handle with sharp gear like protrusions around the out side.

    The teeth puncture the paper and imprint the pattern onto whatever they are pressed into.

    Might work. Ask your local tailor, or arts and crafts store about it.

    Or you could cut each track out of the paper, place the pieces on the Styrofoam and use a suitable marker to outline the ROW!

    Good luck

    Jim
     
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  4. markm

    markm TrainBoard Supporter

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    Michael,

    Really old school would be to use carbon paper between the printout and the foam and trace the outline.

    Mark
     
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  5. tracktoo

    tracktoo TrainBoard Member

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    My biggest concern would not be the track gluing up with the paper in between but later in construction when the scenery starts going down. So much of that includes wetting broadly, pretty heavily at times, and I would worry that the paper in the mix might cause trouble. It's also possible that some cutting and sanding/ sculpting of the surface may be in the future, even if not in the current plan, and the paper might cause trouble when layered in with the foam. With other options available, several good ones already suggested, I don't think there's any good argument for keeping the paper.
     
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  6. hoyden

    hoyden TrainBoard Supporter

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    I used the spikey wheel to transfer my full size layout printout to a 4x8' Homasote sheet. The wheel ought to work with the foam. It would be a simple and inexpensive method to try.
     
  7. mdvholland

    mdvholland TrainBoard Member

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    I used carbon paper on a small layout I started a few years ago:

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    [​IMG]

    Worked fine for me. The layout was never finished and finally demolished, but that's another story :)

    I plan to do it this way again next time. Btw, I tape the carbon paper with little pieces of tape of a kind that doesn't stick too well. I tape the printouts to each other and to the sides of the board.

    But like Jim HOexplorer says, it will still be an indication, you will run into little diversions and have to make adjustments.

    Cheers,
    Matt
     
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  8. Michael Doleman

    Michael Doleman TrainBoard Member

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    Thanks for the feedback. I appreciate it, and it all makes sense.

    I think what I've decided to try is a type of outdoor/waterproof paper -- either Tyvek, or this other type which I can't recall the brand name of (I've used it before to print backpacking maps). Both are basically indestructible, and I actually think it will serve to strengthen the subsurface a bit. I'll test it first and see, but I imagine it will offer a better surface for directly gluing the track.
     
  9. markm

    markm TrainBoard Supporter

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    Michael,

    You may be overthinking this a bit. Don't worry I do it all the time! Consider why Tyvek and similar products are so indestructible, things don't stick to it. If you get it to stick to your base, will it still stick next week? Next month? Next year? And if you plan to ballast you track will the white glue stick? It seems like a whole little research project before you even lay a piece of track.

    But more importantly, all you really need on your base is a line. The track doesn't vary in width (HOPEFULLY) so you just need a line for where the outer rail or outer edge of the plastic roadbed runs and you're in business. This makes the job of tracing half as tedious.

    Another option for you would be to project the design on to the base and trace it. Consider printing it on transparent material and use the old overhead projector or go digital and use a digital projector.

    Hope this helps,

    Mark
     
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  10. Michael Doleman

    Michael Doleman TrainBoard Member

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    I hear you. I don't disagree that I am almost certainly over-thinking many (if not most) aspects of my first layout. But in doing so, I'm learning a lot along the way. I'm a very curious sort of individual, so exploring all the various options, along the way, is half the fun, for me. I enjoy the problem-solving aspect. Even if my solutions don't prove themselves out to be the best, in the end -- that's fine, at least I learned something.

    That said, my initial tests, with the waterproof paper I got, are extremely promising. I wouldn't even really call it "paper," at all. It's entirely synthetic, and comes with nothing but five-star reviews -- folks saying that they've had the stuff glued-up outdoors, to boards, and such, for up to 5 years, and it shows no signs of wear. I glued a couple test pieces to foam and wood, using Gorilla spray adhesive, and the stuff won't budge. I left a little corner of the paper up, at the edge, and tried to pull it off the foam, after the adhesive dried, completely. Couldn't do it. The foam started to pull up before the paper even started to deform. The stuff is untear-able, also.

    I realize that, technically, the idea is untested in terms of all the other variables that will come into play, but initially, anyway, I am not seeing a reason to doubt that it would work fine.

    Agree with the statements about not needing such an *exact* outline of the plan, and that it's not going to end-up being so precise, anyway. Yet, from my experience in woodworking, I know that the closer you can work from an exact prototype, and the more effort you put toward attaining precision, the better your end results. Also, since I am using a number of flex track segments, it sure is helpful to have reasonably precise indicators, down, as to how those curves were envisioned to look.

    Anyway, in the end it may very well be that I abandon my idea, and go with something simpler, like the carbon-paper or sewing-pattern wheel, as suggested here. The projector idea, too, is a great one, which I'd implement if I had access to such a tool and thought that I could get it to work, in proper scale & perspective, from overhead.

    Thanks for all the advice, while I thrash through all these details :) It's been a fun process so far. I'll actually be a little sad when the whole thing is "done." I'll have to go straight to work on set-up #2...
     
  11. Michael Doleman

    Michael Doleman TrainBoard Member

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    Well, okay, addendum to earlier reply...

    Interesting that I didn't notice it before, but the Gorilla adhesive I used on my test pieces actually isn't safe for the foam -- it clearly burns it and erodes it away. Hadn't really seen that, earlier, for whatever reason. But in coming back to it, I felt the surface a bit more, and noticed that there were indentations underneath it, where the foam had given-way.

    So I'm convinced: my idea is more trouble than it's worth, and I would likely end-up making a big mess.

    I'll switch directions and use the sewing pattern wheel idea. Already have a couple different types on order from Amazon. My fancy print-outs from RM Pro will still come into play, at least, since those will make a nice basis for tracing.

    Thanks again.
     
  12. HOexplorer

    HOexplorer TrainBoard Supporter

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    Good choice even though it is not exactly mine! Keep us posted. Also, I have found the Eileen's, Woodland Scenics Foam Tack Glue are the best all around glues for model railroading. Check out my avatar photo. All WS Foam Tack Glue. The word 'foam' should help you in decision making. Cheers, Jim
     

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