Starting to do wiring on a layout and I'm using Rokuhan remote turnouts. I'm not using the power routing option but instead I'm using 3 position toggle switches (center off) to control power and direction to blocks of track sections. So I will be making a control board layout with the track plan and toggle switches. I don't want to use Rokuhan controllers for the remote turnouts. Instead I would rather have buttons or switches on my track plan at each switch location on the control board. I tried an experiment of wiring up a turnout with a 3 position toggle switch with center off. It worked for a short bit until it fried the switch.... So before I destroy any more turnouts, how the heck do I wire up Rokuhan remote turnouts without using Rohuhan controllers and instead use buttons or toggle switches (two buttons for each turnout would be the most desired method)?.... Thanks in advance, -Jon
Yes they take only momentary power, and even a momentary manual switch will probably destroy them. They are polarity driven, i.e. instead of two coils that you energize one at a time, you reverse the polarity of the voltage applied. So if you did not hold the toggle lever too long and overheat the "motor" you can use a DPDT center off MOMENTARY toggle, i.e. spring loaded to return to center. Since you fried one, open it up and see how fine gauge the wire is. Also, did you pick the right voltage? Greg
Ah yes, that makes sense. Thanks Greg. As for voltage, this experiment started at my Dad's house. We measured 12 volts coming out out of the AC accessory terminals. My Dad had a bunch of zener diodes and he gave me one that stepped it down to 6 volts. Is 6 volts to much? I had come across a thread on here a while ago (cant find it now) where someone had done it with two push button switches and diodes. Unfortunately the schematic for it was not available. Nor were the links he referenced to. I'm still learning this stuff. So if anyone has any idea how to do it and has a sketch of how to wire it, I'd be curious on how it goes together. Wont do it for this go around but maybe the next control board.
Ahh... I sort of set you up... you should have researched the voltage and current and "duty time" the turnouts could handle BEFORE you tried them. Also, I believe they use DC, but with the zener, you had to convert to DC somewhere. I would search the forums for Rokuhan voltage and see what you can find on the specs, failing that, contact Ztrack.com people. Now, I will also warn you, besides the fact you should only run a short momentary pulse of power... even at the right voltage, you can overheat these if you run them back and forth... they heat up in normal use. So do not go back and forth, you will heat them, the plastic will melt and bye bye. I would suggest getting a system that makes a quick pulse, but now you are talking extra electronics, and you did not even want to spring for the stock Rokuhan stuff. So, kind of stuck with momentary switches, the right voltage and type of power, and being careful. Greg
I have searched the forums and cant find anything on voltage for Rokuhan turnouts. Rokuhan website and instructions that came with it do not seem to shed any light either. But I'll contact Ztrack and see if I can get any info there. As for not wanting to spring for the stock Rokuhan controllers, money is not even remotely an issue at all for this. You're missing my whole point as to why I'm doing this in the first place instead of using OEM Rokuhan turnout controls. As I said in my original post, I'm using a control board with my layout printed on it. What I might not have made so clear is that I want the controls for the turnouts on the printed out layout at each turnout. You cant use the big bulky Rokuhan controls for that. They are a big rectangular box with a very large toggle switch. I could buy the OEM controllers, take them apart, cram the components under the control board and get smaller toggle switches to fit on my board. But why the heck do that if I could somehow build it myself?.... I'd like to learn about how to make a system that makes a quick pulse. I'm just new to all this and don't know where to start on making such a system. But give me a diagram, name the components on the diagram and I can figure it out. As I said, I did come across a post on here (I think from 2012?) that did show how to do it with two push buttons and some diodes. But the diagram was blanked out. So I have no idea how to do it.
They work like Kato switches. That should help your search queries for a method you want to use. Trey
On a DCC layout, I control the Rokuhan turnouts layout using DCC Concepts Cobalt Alpha components. To do the switching I use the Universal Solenoid Accessory Decoders, with the voltage limited to 9 volts using Zener diodes, and the Integrated 12 Way Digital Switch. I only connect one turnout to each solenoid accessory decoder as two decoders can be given the same address. The individual components (lights, switches, etc.) of the digital switch are available separately so that the user can make their own control panel. I use off the shelf components rather than try to make my own control panel. Also, changes to the layout can make the control panel obsolete. Using DCC means that it is not necessary to run wires into the layout for each turnout. DCC Concepts literature states that by adding a Alpha Box, DC modellers can also using their components. However, this is not something that I have tried and do not understand what is required. Another (and cheaper) option, from a different company, is a product that I have just become aware of in the UK. It is a points (turnout) motor direction switch for coil type motors, with indicator and memory. This uses a bi-colour LED to indicate the position of the turnout. Again this is not a product of which I have direct experience. Rob Pearce (aka ViperBugloss)
Thanks for the suggestion Rob. Right now I'm not interested in going the DCC route. I'd like to stick to old school toggle switches to block of sections of track. In fact I have all my track wiring done. Just need to attach the toggle switches on the control board. But you did answer an important question. Your running 9 volts thru your turnouts and not frying them. I'm also using a zener diode to convert to DC and bump down the voltage to 6 volts. I also like the idea of the switch with indicator and memory. As I said, I'm not afraid to spend some money on this. But I dont have a lot of free time at the moment. That is my biggest problem. I'd like to be able to find a solution that I can buy the parts at You Do It electronics this weekend. Otherwise it might be a long time before I can get back to this project.
There was an extensive discussion on the AZL site last March. The turnouts use the wall wart voltage supplying the Rokuhan throttle: up to 12VDC. The Rokuhan switch uses capacitive discharge to trigger the turnout: 1000uF through a 1Kohm resistor (see attached) For an indicator with memory I like using a 7474 flip-flop but that tends to be a bit complex for most people. An alternative to look at could be Touch toggles: http://www.berretthillshop.com/using-touch-toggles-in-a-large-model-railroad-panel/ Hope this helps, Mark
I was trying to remember where it was. I don't frequent that site any more, so I forgot. No offense, but while I can appreciate wanting to learn to make the circuit itself, it will be an experiment if you don't have an electronics background. That's why I pointed out you tried to control it without researching the voltages and other specs. Experiments can fail. Yes, you did say you searched and did not find anything, but that also points to honestly getting a little better at searching. I just searched "rokuhan turnout control voltage" on google and got the AXL thread, and several others on the first page. 10 seconds of effort. I would suggest getting one of their controllers and pulling it apart and copying the circuit. If you want to learn electronics, I suggest that will take a much longer time to fully grasp the theory and be able to design one. I'd also go over to the AZL forum and find that thread and read it, as I now remember it, it was quite extensive. I think the person that was asking the question was really agonizing over it, and even measured the thermal rise. In any case, you now have enough information and possible paths to succeed. Regards, Greg
Thanks Greg. Just found out about AZL forum about an hour ago, joined and looking at a thread right now on the subject.
Jon, As you can see I've disassembled one of the units. I have a schematic, but because of some comments I've been reluctant to publish it until a confirm I didn't read the PCB wrong and I can duplicate the functionality with "Radio Shack" components. I guess I really should get back to it as this question is going to surface again and again. If it helps any, the front panel holding the switch in the C002 unit can be snapped into a slot on your own panel and the PCB mounted behind it. I would appreciate reading any solution you come up with. Mark
An AZL forum I found was just what I was looking for. Glad I know about AZL forum now, great source of information. Trey, you called it on the Kato switches working the same way. I wont even pretend that I understood everything that was being talked about on the forum. But it did help me understand a little bit better on how to do this. I copied a schematic that Jeff from BaZ BoyZ had posted on the forum. The gentleman that was preforming all the tests came to the conclusion that 7.5 volts and a 1500uF capacitor gave the best results using this type of circuit. The original diagram Jeff had posted was for N gauge Kato turnouts. My copy has what should work best for z gauge using the Kato controller method. He also had good results with 6 volts and 2200uf and said that worked too. I'd like to try this as an experiment. The schematic given does not make 100% sense to me on how to wire it up to a SPDT switch. So I made a quick drawing of the components. Just need to know what letter goes to what number or if my interpretation sketch is just completely wrong. I'm not an electrical engineer nor do I ever intend to be one. So please excuse my ignorance of understanding the schematic, especially if I have this completely wrong. Thanks, Jon
Jon, It will sort of work, in one direction. You would need to do a second switch with the polarities reversed to return the turnout to it's original position. I would strongly encourage you to add a current limiting resistor between the capacitor and coil, start with 1000 ohm (brown-black-red). It may not work the first time, but you can always lower the value. Once you draw too much current, it will never work again. I'll be playing with my stuff on Sunday and should be able to provide more detail then. Mark
Jon, When one is experimenting with electronics, it's good to understand what you are working with and you mentioned you don't fully understand the circuit. Basically a capacitor stores charge, but it takes time to store that charge. In your example, when you throw the switch, you send current through the capacitor and turnout coil. Initially the capacitor looks like a wire and a current flows. As the capacitor charges, the current flow decreases until it stops. The time the current flows depends on the value of the capacitor (higher = longer). When you throw the switch in the opposite direction, the capacitor discharges in preparation tho repeat the process. There are some issues with this circuit. The initial current flow can be quite large, depending on the electrical characteristics of the capacitor and power supply. This could damage the coil, hence my comment about adding a resistor. David's comment on the switch type is only partially correct. You don't really want to keep the power applied to the capacitor continuously because there will always be some small current flowing through it. But you need to reverse the switch long enough to discharge the capacitor, so a center-off switch would complicate operation. You still need to be able to reverse the polarity on the coil to change position, essentially the reverse of the wiring you have ( + becomes -, - becomes +). You would need a 4PDT switch to do what you are doing and to disconnect the capacitor for the other direction. Polarized capacitors really don't like being powered backwards. My personal preference is a circuit to discharge the capacitor into the coil. This involves connecting the capacitor between "B" and "2", connecting "A" to "1" and connecting the coil, through a resistor to "C". In this case when the switch is in the opposite position it charges the capacitor and when you throw the switch to change the turnout, you dump the charge in the capacitor into the coil. You don't need a momentary contact switch because once the capacitor discharges there is no power to the coil. I hope this helps and I haven't confused you or scared you off. All will be made clearer. Mark
Rokuhan controller supplies 10vdc to RC02 side terminals or RC03 turnout levers in the controller, The C002 turnout controller that can be side mounted to a Rokuhan throttle can also be used as a stand alone and powered from A Rokuhan wall transformer, and additional turnout controls can be stack on the first one. It is amperage that kills the coil in the turnout motor so you want to use a power supply that is voltage limited and current limited. I can get the coil to fire with 20ma and voltage from 10vdc down to 5 vdc so it does not take much power, a spring loaded center off DPDT can work but it is not a efficient as the one in the C002 controller which actually only allows a momentary pulse to be sent when lever is moved from one side to the other, also the circuitry inside the motor will also cut the power to the coil when the points move. The coil wire is so fine it does not take much in the way of current to burn it creating an open in the coil. Rokuhan created it components to be plug and play and make it difficult but not impossible to screw things up. Not knowing the specs can lead to multiple failures. The guy who did the design for the circuit had it up on his website but that is no longer on line either. It was a circuit that had both a voltage regulator and a current limited supplied both +5 and -5 volts with a zero vdc common with the two polarities in the power supply you now have a supply that would work with push buttons. I have not as yet been able to find the circuit in my files. David K Smith was the author and while he still has a web site it does not contain any information referring to things Rokuhan turnouts
With this circuit you only need a push button and your circuit does not have the reversing polarity required to go the opposite direction, On a two wire system the polarity is reversed A=plus B = minus to open and then A= minus and b = plus to close
I also wanted an alternative to the factory turnout controls. I decided to go with the 751K switches. Google 751K and you can see them. I emailed the supplier and he confirmed they work for Rokuhan as well. They can be used with DC or DCC, they just cannot be controlled by the DCC system. Works for me as I wanted the control panel option and it has capabilities for LED indicators I bought a 10 pack and am assembling them myself. Nice small finished size. Trey
