hi all I would like very much to run a prototopical small amount of boxcars depicting a late 1950' [1958-60] time period I only have a limited amount of boxcars and this is what I have ATHEARN 40'boxcar Bx 37 A.T.S.F. the Chief series n.146454 40'boxcar Bx 37 A.T.S.F. El Capitan series n.142413 40'boxcar Fe 26 ATSF double plug doors n.5927 50'boxcar Fe 24 ATSF El Capitan n.10337 50'boxcar Fe 24 ATSF the Scout n.10304 can this boxcars be run together in freight service behind zebra stripes locomotives in the 1958/60 time period ? thanks for your guidance
Yes, my friend, yes! The 37 footers were being phased out and for the most part set idle on dead end spurs, waiting for some museum to pick them up or fall apart all on their own. Great place for kids to play that is until OSHA interrupted things. The 40 footers saw service starting in the 40's and continuing through the mid 70's. Many rebuilt from wood sheathed outside braced to metal sheathed and insulated. The time frame or era you are modeling saw many interesting changes. A great time to model. I'm trying to remember but I think Russell Straw, put together a list of era specific freight cars. Let's see if we can get him to jump in here with some noteworthy information on the subject. We have plenty of knowledgeable Santa Fe Rail Fans who participate here.
Rick Check the BUILD/NEW date on the cars. They should look like ##/## (month/year). Of course since your an N scaler, you might need a magnifying glass to see them.
Andy, Time to get the Optimizer out. Can't see a thing without it. Stefano, two things to consider. You can look at the MF dates on the train cars as suggested by Andy. First, some model makers did use the prototype dates. Second, not all model makers used the correct dates. Some put on the dates they manufactured the train car. I think Lionel, did that and today you can look with certainty and know when the car was manufactured. Take a look and see what you can learn.
ok guys thanks this is the information I can read on the side of the boxcars 40' boxcar the Chief built 4-41 40'boxcar El Capitan built 4-41 both of this boxcars have straight maps on one side and A.T.S.F lettering with period the 40' double plug doors boxcars have no built date only thing I can reed is TS 9-69 [but I think is a re-weight date] they have ATSF lettering without periods on the side I read in yellow on one of the plug door TRANSLOADING SERVICE RETURNING EMPTY to agent ATSF Barstow Cal. the 50'boxcars El Capitan The Scout are built 4-47 they are lettered ATSF without period Can I mix A.T.S.F /ATSF freight cars together in 1958-60 ? Can all this boxcars go mix together in a freight consist/transfer train in the period 1958-60 ? can they be headed by Zebra stripes ATSF locomotives switcher/road switcher? thanks for your guidance
I'd go more by the paint scheme than the built date as they only tell you when the car was built, a car built in the 40's but repainted into the current paint scheme in the 1970's would still be stencilled with 1940's built date. If you want to read all the small print the car with the TS 9-69 lettering shouldn't be run on a layout set before September 1969 but I think the cars you mention would all look ok together. Don't forget the caboose, all trains in those days had to have one and should be plain Mineral Brown with reporting marks and number rather than the modern Chinese Red with large yellow herald.
thanks guys but unfortunately I am still confused which one can I run mixed together in 1958-60 can I run those with the straight maps A.T.S.F. Chief Capitan Scout and also the double plug doors in a consist? sorry I am a bit lost
[TABLE="align: center"] [TR] [TD][TABLE="align: center"] [TR] [TD="width: 570"][TABLE] [TR] [TD="width: 570"]A Quick Guide to ATSF Paint [/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] A.T.&S.F. - until 1938 A.T.S.F. - 1938 - 1943 ATSF - 1944 - end As a very general rule, in the 30s and 40s cars would need repainting about every 10 years. Stock cars, with their hard cleaning, may have shown their wear more rapidly. I would expect very few A.T.&S.F. painted cars to last into the 50s. A.T.S.F. painted cars would have lasted into the early 50s, but most cars by the mid 50s would have been ATSF. Other immediate give-aways on paint are: Scotchlite reflective circles - 1958 ACI Labels (the color coded car ids) - 1969 Reweight Dates: in the 30s and 40s all cars had to be reweighted every 30 months. Maps on cars: Curved line maps (2 versions) -1940 Straight line map -1940-1947 Ship and Travel - 1947-1958 Brakes K brakes were used in the early 1900s. They could not be used in interchange with other railroads after August, 1953. However, most were gone with post WWII modernization. AB brakes began showing up in interchange service as experimental at the end of 1932 and were required on all new cars built after September 1, 1933. [/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] [/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD][/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD][/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]according to this freight paint scheme 1-My ATSF 40'boxcars double plug doors have reflective cross/circle so I assume that must be used after 1958 they also have the slogan 'ship and travel' that also ended in 1958 ??!! 2-A.T.S.F. cars lasted just in to the early 1950's 3-mostly A T S F by the mid 1950's it seems like I can model the early 50's mixing together A.T.S.F./A T S F boxcars with maps would it be ok to use my zebra stripes locomotives like RS-1 S-4 GP7 FM 16-44 for this consist of early 1950' ? [/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD][/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE]
Getting to technical for this rivet counter. I think you have assessed it correctly. Here's the problem: As soon as you set a hard and fast rule someone is going to come up with a picture of a specific train car out of era, still working on another railroad line. Not all cars got called back to the originating railroad for updates and repairs. Often times repaired by the competing railroad, on the spot where it broke down. Continuing to provide service on other railroads, until one day it found it's way back on home tracks and got noticed by the maintenance staff. About then Kenneth A. and Russell S. would flag it and have it shopped, to come out with a different box, paint and lettering. What I'm saying is, more then likely there is an exception to every rule. None the less. I like the way you are approaching operations on your layout. As a Santa Fe rail fan I appreciate the attention you are giving to the details. Hang in there.
The book Santa Fe freight in Color Volume One - Boxcars shows several photos of boxcars of various classes repainted into the modern large 'circle cross' herald scheme and even later billboard Cooper Black 'Santa Fe' lettering but still with their original built dates from the 40's, some photos being from as late as the 1980's so that dating method is not always reliable.
Stefano The old adage "It's RR so run what you want" does apply here though. This correct date thing can go to such extremes you can't run anything together. There's not enough info out there to even know which car was or was not ever reweighed. And "Santa Fe freight in Color Volume One" shows car pix taken at one point in time. Does anyone know if any dates on those cars were later changed? -doubt it very much. If you're really concerned about it at ops sessions, don't invite any rivet counting nitpickers. LOL
One of my concerns in a discussion of this nature, is how provable is the specific operating dates, start to finish of any given style of freight car. The other concern would be pigeon holing a certain freight cars as to production, service start and end dates. To learn such you'd have to go back to the specific railroad maintenance records of each freight car in question. If you think I'm going to take the time to do that...well....no, not likely. The books out there are great resources but the information shared isn't necessarily set in stone. Stefano, I wouldn't worry to much about absolutes but rather focus on running as realistically as you can, hitting the mark as close as you can. Just a side note from the open door pullman (box car hobo's rode in). I operate a number of fantasy cars mixed in with my regulars. I do it more as a conversation piece. Invariably it strikes up some real interesting discussions. Loads of fun. I can get real serious about my trains researching era and time frames certain freight cars operate and have loads of fun. At the same time I can run trains that need a story to be seen running on my railroad and have loads of fun making one up. Fun is what you interpret it to be and what strikes your fancy. Go for it.
Hi Rick Althought I get Andy's point I definitevly agree with your last paragraph as it is the essence of why I model trains something else now https://udisco.com/hobbies/pics/070161.jpg this is a 40'double plug doors boxcars of the Santa Fe' it has the large herald with the circle/cross and the logo 'ship and travel Santa Feall the way' I also noted small reflective scotchlite white with black background markings on the sides [as from 1958] In your opinion in which time period would you see the boxcar running in service ? thanks
My opinion? We are in trouble now. From my memory bank and more of a guess. I'm picking my brain for the time frame. The first time I saw the the large Santa Fe Herald, was in the mid to late 60's. Recall seeing it on Reefers, Box Cars and some Auto Box Cars. The problem is I don't remember when these first showed up or began to disappear. On Ca., Hwy. 18 between Apple Valley and Lucerne Valley are some refrigerator cars with the large circle herald. First time I saw them on private property was in the early 80's. For your specific Santa Fe box car, guessing between the mid 50's up until the late 70's. I know that doesn't help at all. Grin
anything helps so thank you Rick My interest in the hobby is to run and model the time period I like with the proper locomotives and consists this is essencial in my view because is a way to re-connect historically with a subject one's like
The book on Santa Fe boxcars I refered to earlier has a photo taken on Sept 28, 1959 of a 40' Bx-37 car freshly painted in the large herald with 'Ship and Travel' slogan and a couple of other photos of cars in the scheme are dated 1960. After Amtrak took over passenger service some cars had the word 'trave' painted out so the slogan just read 'Ship Santa Fe all the way". Another consideration of what you can get away with running is where you are. Here in sunny Queensland, Australia most model railroaders seem to know as much about Santa Fe as I do about brain surgery and I'm sure they think warbonnet F3's are still happily running around the USA with the Super Chief in tow. I'm sure I am the only one at train shows who silently cringes and gnashes his teeth when looking at a very well done layout and a Superfleet 8-40CW trundles past with a train of wood reefers. But like you I try to keep the trains I run prototypical just because I know they are.
hi West I thank you very much for this piece of info about the 40'Bx 37 fresh of paint in 1959 it really helps This should be an indication that it might have survived with the old paint scheme with maps long enough to be suitable for my time period unfortunately though it does not solve my problem because it is in A.T.S.F. lettering with periods and I doubt it would have survived in this lettering format I should try may be to weathered to see if I can get rid of the periods this could be a solution About the prototopical way of running woodrefeers in modern time freights is very much an impossible modeller licence and if you find it funny ......well I can tell you that I have seen American locomotives heading European cars and viceversa including a TGV in one of the most incredible model trains omlet ever conceived https://udisco.com/hobbies/pics/070161.jpg about the latest question I was asking specifically of the 40' ATSF double plug doors boxcar like the above Do you have any information datas or photos that might be revealing a time period in which this boxcar operated I will be very happy if you have thanks very much
