Does Athearn have something against N scale?

I just got my news letter from Athearn and once again NOTHING for N scale. I have seen this for several months now. Has Athearn thrown in the towel with N scale?

Your thoughts?
Ryan

 

Athearn's current stance is they are doing no new tooling for n-scale for the foreseeable future. They are considering all options for rerunning existing tooling though. They have posted a few questionaires on Facebook asking for suggestions for existing tooling, and of course half of the respondents request new tooling....grrrr, read people! But there were lots of good ideas thrown out there so Athearn does have feedback. We'll see how much of it gets off the drawing board I guess.

 

N sale in some ways is a diminishing market...not the number of releases, but the number of modelers. Athearn has always been an HO driven company, and their venture in to N scale may not have been as profitable as they had hoped?

Joe

 

No new tooling? Do they mean ANY kind of tooling at all? Because if they rerun an existing product but change roadnames/road ##s or anything along that lines, they are going to need at least some type of new tooling.

 

My guess is that their "thing" against N scale is it doesn't make enough money for them. Ditto for Walthers. Never sure why more folks cannot grasp this pretty simple principle.....It is just business, and nothing personal against us!

I think it has been stated that N scale sells 25-40% of what HO sells for any comparable product, usually tilting to the lower 25% area. Even with reduced tooling costs, I imagine its hard to justify that expense in a down market.

Interesting speculation that N scale is shrinking in numbers. From 5-10 years ago, we were all pretty sure N would keep growing in market share. I know sales didn't always justify it, but perhaps the mfgs jumped on the bandwagon (or Kato, in N scale centric Japan, due to space reasons, started as mostly an N scale company) presuming it would grow continually as HO did in taking over for O. A few, like Kato, Atlas and MT, looked as if they were on a mission to build N scale, perhaps

Perhaps its just true that HO is the perfect blend of size and detail for the majority of even new modelers?

 

Back when I was a pup, Athearn only marketed HO scale trains, so for them to be backing off N-scale is not big suprise to me.

Its hard to think N-scale has a smaller martket share than HO when you look at this forum, there are alway more people in the N-scale forum than Ho or any of the other forums here.

 

Jolly,

From time to time, we get insiders on here, and they have consistently put N scale sales at that 25-33 (outside 40%) range. I recall some saying that things we run in unit trains, like IM covered hoppers or Bethgons for coal get nearly equal sales between scales. For instance, Frank at IM has said in public presentations that their 4750 Covered hoppers have sold about 250K overall in HO and 225K in N.

MR hasn't done a scale survey of readers in a while that I recall. The last one put HO at about 66% of the modelers, N at 19 or 20%, If I recall. I might not.....

Maybe the HO guys spend more time modeling and less times on forums than N scalers......there was a prevailing theory (unproven, of course) that N scale had more newbs, and as younger folks got in, more were computers savvy, which might explain even or greater N scale traffic on forums. It might just be that the magazines are largely HO centric, too, so we come looking for N specific info here.

Whatever it is, it is.

 

Thats because alot of the die hard HOers are older in age and more than likely dont use a computer very much.

Just my $0.02 on it.

 

HO is their bread and butter. No worries. N scale is getting some great attention from Kato, FVM, Intermountain, Atlas...

 

To answer the OP's original question...NO! I might have something against Athearn! Athearn... today, is not one of my favorites. Although, it has been in the past. Their equipment isn't easy to work with and the shell HO or N will break in your hand. Just try ordering a new shell and or parts....grrrrrrr!

From a personal historical perspective. I wouldn't of had an HO layout if it hadn't been for Athearn. A shout out of thanks to what Athearn USED TO BE! Prices were in reach of a youngster going out and mowing lawns, detailing cars, washing windows (I hated washing windows) working the apricot orchards and cot sheds. Just yesterday, I gave a friend of mine a bunch of HO (Blue Box) Athearn train equipment. I don't have room to store it and I know he will take care of it, Never mind he has a layout to operate it on. He should do fine with the all but new in the box equipment. It's used, nothing new, make no mistake.

I agree with some of the sentiment and specualtion shared here. The downside is new tooling is getting costly even if done in China. They have gotten a taste of what capitalism can do for them. Consequentially, the cost of good quality items has skyrocketed and many of us have simply... quit buying. Fixed retirement incomes don't lend themselves very well to over inflated prices. Never mind what our squirrely politicans are doing. I think they have forgotten where they came from. Creating a very unstable economy. But then I would be getting political and that's a story for another place and time.

I'ma very thankful to Kato, Atlas, InterMountain, FVM, Rapido, Athearn, ahh...$#!+... ok Bachmann for their fine offerings in N Scale. I have pretty much everything I've wanted and most of it is back on the work bench needing tweaking, cleaning, lubing, (In a overheated moment...thrown against the wall), cannobalized for parts and otherwise being a general nuisance. I'ma tired of TT (traction tires) that break and snap. Someday I will tell you of a story when my grandad an engineer for Santa Fe, had to stop his stove, jack up the steamer and replace a traction tire. Yep, we are real realistic, I said tongue in cheek.

Getting burned out and that's not a good thing. I haven't gone to swapmeets, train shows, keeping close to home. Gave up on making a pilgrimage to San Diego to operate trains on the SDAE layout. To long a day. Bunch of great and sometimes grumpy guys.

Bonus point: The Karma truth. I've learned over time that good ness does not return. Maybe in bits and pieces, I've seen that happen. Goodness can be shared but never ever expect it to come back. Ain't going to happen. And that's the truth.

Thanks to all who have shared a bit of goodness with me. I will continue the fun as long as the Great Spirit allows me.

Do not make the mistake of thinking I appreciate what Athearn is doing today. I don't. That be my two cents on the subject.


I hate getting old.

 

Rick,

I was going to post similar on Athearn. As far as their N scale products, the facts (by which I mean, my opinion....) are that by and large, they just aren't as good as some of their competition, and their place in the N scale market (which can be quite picky!) has suffered, and thus they cut back. While I may not be typical, lets look at what I have bought and not bought from Athearn in N

Bought:

About 10 of their old Roundhouse redos with much better paint schemes. Still rough tooling, but crisp paint makes them okay.
One FP 45 - great loco, with limited appeal by road and era
20 Ethanol Tankers, great cars but difficult to convert to MT

Have NOT bought:

Their newly tooled flat cars - are a bit rough, but I do have one.
Challengers - I would love their challengers, but don't buy as its an expensive product out of my time frame, or a luxury item.
FP59 - crude, too fast, limited appeal for my modeling tastes since they didn't run in Chicago
SD70 - Crude tooling.

I probably have missed some stuff in there, but you get the idea. We demand quality, or at least the same quality levels as other mfgs. When Athearn delivers it, it just happens to be in products I have little interest in. Somewhere, they guessed the market wrong, or got product just a bit wrong and they are paying for it in sales, regardless of bigger market issues.

 

I know I have been waiting for a year an a half for some more 30,000 gal. ethanol tankcars supposedly this June.

 

The difference between Athearn and Walthers is, Athearn comes out with models I'm interested in and does a decent job at it. Everything Walthers has done for N scale (except for structures, which are excellent) is pretty much crap. Rapidos in the 2010s? Puh-leeeze.

It's a weird situation. I joined N scale in the past few years, and I hear a lot of people join this forum (and others catering to N scale) all the time. N is more visible in LHSes; I remember when I was an HO scaler in the '80s, N was those tiny trains they always kept in the glass cabinet, and never any boxes you can actually pick up with your own hands.

In the past decade we've seen N-centric companies like BLMA, ExactRail, Fox Valley and Intermountain emerge. Most of those companies are driven by relatively young entrepreneurs.

Though I am aware that the large cadre of baby-boomer generation modelers are now entering seniorhood, and concerns about eyesight, dexterity and overall health are increasingly emerging factors for them to either leave the hobby ot move to larger scales. And people in my generation (I'm in my early 40s) and younger are not plentiful enough to replace them,

Maybe DIY 3D printing is the big savior of the hobby after all.

 

Unlike Atlas, which drives me crazy with their 4-axle re-runs with new paint schemes I don't care about, I actually want to see some more re=runs from Athearn. I want my 2nd-generation F59PH. Their initial run was like, what 30 units, and they were nowhere to be found in a couple hours. I want my Amtrak California (Surfliner scheme) and Metrolink (new livery) F59s!

 

We have a guy in my club who is an 87 year old N scaler.

 

I guess my biggest gripe with Athearn is that you can sign up for their monthly mailers, just like Atlas and they ask you what scale, HO or N. So why do they offer you an option for N scale, when month after month they put out HO and NO N scale. I get the fact that they have been in HO scale since the begining of time, but if they have no intentions on offering N scale anymore, then why make it available on their website?

 

Boxcab,

I agree that one mfgs sales aren't indicators of the health of N scale as a whole. I know I obsess over business numbers more than most, just out of interest, and its true we don't really even know how many n scalers are out there. (nor, how we define them...Xmas tree layout? 4 x 6 minimum? At least three locos? You get the idea) Would be nice to know, but we never will.

As to N-centric companies like BLMA, ExactRail, Fox Valley and Intermountain run by relatively young (or young at heart) entrepreneurs, my sense is Atlas and a few others were there a decade or two ago, but now have more "corporate structure" and cost controls in place. In contrast, Matt and others have low overhead and are single owners, so while they don't want to bomb on any product, if a higher risk product that they would like to see in N breaks even, its okay with them, as opposed to keeping the major stockholders happy.

Not sure exactly where Kato fits in that, but somewhere in between is my guess. Atlas may be in the middle, too. They still seem to put out a variety of products (even if new diesel tooling is down from the past) that would help N grow, from Trainman to signals, to steam, etc.

Anyway, it is what it is, and maybe some folks just understand N better than others for what to do in the marketplace. Understandable that old line HO companies like Walthers and Athearn who are merely doing brand extensions aren't quite as good at it at least in all phases.

 

Wow, lots of negative vibes...cheer up folks, we have plenty of nice models coming from all directions in n-scale. Don't mind Joe, he's trying to push Z-scale. ;-)

I think Athearn's body of work has been pretty decent. They've only had a few home runs, but they've been beauties. For me, that's ethanol cars, LPG cars, and cement hoppers on the high end, then SEICO boxcars, vehicles, pup trailers, updated Husky stacks, and AutoMAX cars. To a lesser extent, Bombardier cars, the F59PHI's (new ones, frustratingly), and coalporters. The MDC reruns and SD70's can cease to exist for the most part IMHO. The old F59PHI's--and those responsible--can go jump in a lake.

I get the impression that Athearn is willing to generate new decoration so yes I guess that means new pad printing tooling but no new injection tooling I guess.

 

So this is how rumors get started. Athearn DID NOT STATE THEY HAVE NO INTENTIONS ON OFFERING N SCALE ANYMORE, nor did I or anyone else state that. They just said effectively--based on the current economy--that they don't have any new tooling planned for a cycle that includes current marketing materials, most likely.

Don't be so uptight...like Rossford Yard stated...it's not personal. Athearn is not "spurning n-scalers" or trying to "get even" or "teach us a lesson" or anything other than....right now they can't invest in new tooling. They're apparently not planning much new tooling in HO either.