I'm ready for just about anyone to kick this beast out. I got one started when Randy mentioned his and it's shelved. Personally, I'm in for 4 kits. Between those and SD9's and GP9's, I'd be in shortline heaven. And I don't care which frame we use. Just make 'em!
Randy, Thanks for the update. I'd like to commit to 4 kits if you keep it on the GP-7 frame. I'll check with a couple of friends in the CAD world and see if they'd like to do something like this. Joe
not trying to highjack the thread but since CF7's and GP7R's have the same exhaust stacks, I'm just curious if you have ideas for what I can use for the two taller middle stacks they added to these? Thanks
I made masters for the two Santa Fe "Chicken Basket" spark arrestors and made those out of resin. Those were typical on the CF7's (two stack style) and also all the EMD 567-engine power such as GP7's and F7's. They eventually imitated the Farr-style manifold and went to a four-stack style, I'm including both styles with the kit (2 and 4-stack). Now for some real news. One of the TB members here has a good CAD background and has advanced the partial drawings I had and the hand sketches into a plan I'll call (speaking in engineerese) "75% complete" and in final review. Until the photoetcher reviews the drawings I can't say 'we've got it" but I've made more progress on this in the last week than I have in the last year. Along the way I've discovered a couple things I didn't know. There was at least one of them (2543, now on the Indiana Railroad) that has a stepped handrail on the LH side but NO STEP! I checked every locomotive either side, and no other one has it. It was there during the ATSF years. There was never an actual step on the firemans side, but on every other CF7 I've ever seen, the handrail was straight into the cab, except on this one. So to add one more oddball to the mix in a collection of oddballs, one unit had a "Cleburne mistake" in it on the handrail. The other odd thing I discovered was HOW FAST that ATSF evolved to the reinforced frame style when then had problems with the open frame design. Dated photos on railpictures.net proved it. The 1972-built CF7's had reinforced frames by 1975. CF7's that were built with open frames and the pinstripe paint scheme (before June 72) have fixes applied to them by 1975, but were not repainted. So it's likely that NO CF7 ever left Santa Fe control with the open web frame. I didn't think so, but now I'll advance this to say they were all fixed - all of them - by about '75.
Randy, Glad to hear you got someone to help with your CAD issue. When you first put out the request I was working a more than fulltime job so I couldn't have helped. These days I have a lot more time, (been unemployed for a while). If you need someone to help out with CAD or Solid modeling keep me in mind as I not only have AutoCAD but SolidWorks and Inventor as well. I have wanted to do a couple of projects for this new 3D printing but just haven't gotten to it yet. Even if you personally don't need any help, feel free to recommend me to anyone. 2slim
OK, drawings have been sent to the etcher for final review. I do have to admit that this thread not only got me going again, but helped me find somebody to work on the CAD side. The sheet details are going to be great. Full handrails, MU cables, radio plate, cut levers, mirrors, both handrail variations, fully etched steps, cab visors.... all the stuff that you can only do right in brass. Two sheets, one in .010 and one in .005. I'll also be blunt and state openly that now that I've seen my first RP product from Shapeways, I'll stay with resin for anything that requires a smooth finish, like these angled and rounded cab roofs. I think the technology will improve for sure, but it's not quite there yet. When it is, these brass parts will still be the best way to go for the final details. The other thing I'll state is that I now have a GP15 chassis for conversion testing. What was Atlas thinking? Yeah, I know it's "Trainman", but the truck pickups on this thing go right back to the 1982 Kato GP38. No pickup tabs on the end-point axles, completely dependent on the frame contact that can rock open. No lateral movement on the trucks at all. I can agree with those that want the slighly shorter accurate wheelbase at the expense of a lot of grinding off of the cast metal fuel tank (and I'll probably include instructions for that) but I'm more convinced than I was before that the basic GP7 chassis is the way to go, a little long or not. It can be done, but you've got to be way more interested in that wheelbase length than how it runs. I'm sure that 10 people can log on and say their GP15 runs just fine, and yeah, I'll make sure it can be used for those people that get stuck on the wheelbase. My 6" behind the cab can be cut right out. I knew about the fuel tank issues, but this pickup thing sure left me cold. I'm also going to make sure the etching set is available separately. I think it has uses way beyond the CF7.
Randy, Really happy to see this going forward. I agree the etching set you describe has many potential uses, and I think it will be a nice compliment to the BLMA stuff out now. Looking forward to seeing the cab on both the GP7 frame and the GP15-frame.
I am interested in the etched detail kit as well....and would like to see non-G-scale pics of your CF7 shell. Any more progress on pricing? I know last time I read your page it was still pretty up in the air. Don't get me started on the GP15-1 shortcomings...seems whenever I say something about it I'm "way off base". Hopefully, eventually, the folks clamoring for more Trainman locos will "get it". For the record, the other proposed CF7 was also resin, generated from a master that was done via RP and tweaked. At least that was the rumor going around.
I know the pickups aren't up to snuff on the GP-15 but we ran one too it's death on our store display layout and the motor was the failure point, not the pickups. It never stalled, never had any issues at all going across plastic frog C80 turnouts. I know they could be a better design but from my experience so far, no complaints on how they run.
Because I've already got my resin tooling 'done' it doesn't cost me any more here to produce stuff to order. There isn't much overhang in inventory, really. The investment is in the etch process, as that has to be done in a fairly large batch. The need for these etched parts by anybody doing this - resin - RP to resin - or even injection - finally pushed me mentally ahead. I'm stating that openly because the guys that want to pursue the RP side (possibly even me, trust me!) are still stuck with a lot of fine detail that looks awful fat in .020 thickness that the etchings will also solve. Like I said, the way this thing is designed it can be assembled to fit either Atlas chassis. The 'makeup' area on my kit is directly behind the cab. So if there is such a thing as "have it your way" this is it. I'm just observing that I'm still at a loss on how much grief some are willing to go through for that wheelbase considering the design flaws inherent in it. If the GP15 chassis didn't have to have the fuel tank ground off, or if the GP7 chassis was the perfect length, I'm quite convinced this problem of the lack of a model wouldn't exist. Etch sheets are approved and I should have enough information to develop pricing in about a week or so, for the sheets and for the kits.
Interesting time for a CF7 discussion to pop up. My local railway museum just added a CF7 to it's equipment list on Wednesday. It's Los Angeles Junction Railway # 2571. Originally SF 202 F7. The LAJ is owned by BNSF and when they retired it for the last time last year, we asked for it and they gave it to us. Needs a little work and it'll be back on the line pulling our historic passenger cars for the museum. http://www.oklahomarailwaymuseum.org/
I thought I saw Rock Island 743 back there. Then I scrolled down and saw it was indeed ORM. Cool to see they got a CF7. Are they planning on restoring it to the blue and yellow warbonnet?
Wow, nice, just so you know the way it should look: http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=546871
Well, I'll state something flat out. If you want one to fit a GP15, you have your work cut out for you. Not only is the fuel tank in the way, but the entire frame is too long and has to be cut back outboard of the screw holes. So the entire mechanism has to be field-stripped before it can be ground/cut. You can't introduce metal dust into gears. As I dissassemble and grind to make this demo work, I'm taking photos and documenting everything. There's four ultra-tiny clips on the circuit board that nobody else does, or did. There are TRANSPARENT shims under the motor clip to the fuel tank for some reason. Both of those create parts incredibly easy to loose. And the only way to do this is to completely strip it down. I'll do this, it can be done, and I'll have instructions, but I'm understanding more by the minute why nobody has tried to do this on a production basis. Wow. 'just put it on a GP15 chassis?' Yeah, right!
Which is why I go back to . . . sell the kit for the GP-7 frame/mech, and make a website note on the other. Don't bother marketing it for both. And sell the etchings separately.
That's pretty much where I am at. I managed to grind off enough stuff off of the GP15 frame to make it fit. It will work for either. If you're hard-core and that wheelbase bothers you (and you don't mind grinding a frame) you can do it that way. If you don't want to have to mess with the frame issues just use the Atlas GP7 frame with no changes. Other than having to write separate instructions for it there's no difference. The only 'discovery' I made yesterday is that with the way I designed the side sills to fit you can REVERSE the GP15 frame front for rear and still leave 9' of the original metal tank on there and only grind off the part that needs to be replaced by the battery box casting. It could be worse. You definitely don't need to grind off the entire fuel tank and replace it with a Kato, that's just way too much work. But I can certainly see how there's no way you're ever going to take a stock Atlas GP15 frame and fit it to this locomotive, it's too long and the fuel tank is in the way as well as too long. Photos to follow. Etchings are now being reviewed for production. I do intend to sell them separately as that seems to be the big hassle with the RP concepts sure to come - built-on handrails are in the way, add-on handrails are darn fragile, and both options are still relatively thick. I probably wouldn't go through the resin effort if I didn't already have everything ready to go, and all the surfaces are nice and smooth as-is.
