I would have to go with Atlas on this one. I have found their detail and reliability along with a reasonable price tag make them the obvious choice. I run at least 50 different Atlas loco's. Broadway Limited makes a fine loco but a limited selection. I would like to see some late 60's-early 80's diesels offered. My E8 is one of my favorite by BL but spends most of it's time in my display case due to it's price. I have always liked Athearn freight cars and recently purchased an FP45. I was disappointed with the jerky operation and limited sounds. I'm glad I didn't pay full retail for it as it does not get used much. And my god is it heavy! Bachmann doesn't make a single engine that I like or "Ready To Run" model. Every Bachmann loco I own has had to have some sort of upgrade in order for it to perform to my standards. Prototypical details are never quite right within the Bachmann line. I am not familiar with the newer Kato line (since the split from Atlas). I see that they tend to run newer diesels which I am not a fan of. So what do you think? Any takes on this or any advice is appreciated. Note- I only run diesel power, sorry Steam fans.
I guess it really comes down to, who makes what you need? Although, if I was having to look at Bachmann to fill most of my needs I think I'd look for something else to model. Personally though, I have to say Kato. Because of economic and manufacturing reasons the Kato units don't come with all the handrails and step edges painted and whatever else. That's alright though, it gives me the modeler something to do.
Based on what I have seen, Kato is far superior to Atlas in terms of reliability, smoothness in operations and pulling strength. And they are a lot easier to convert to DCC. Two years ago, I posted QA statistics based on my collection of over 1200 locomotives on the Atlas forum. I posted it because I saw a trend of higher and higher failure rates of new locomotives. In comparing the failure rates, Atlas had the highest rate of problems. In just one year of buying locomotives for myself as well as for charitable causes, I have had cases where 30% of the locomotives from Atlas in a single purchase were defective. I bought in lots of 50 units or more. All in all, the aggregated failure rate for Atlas is at 22%. Using the same rules and calculation for Kato, thier rate was 2%. While I will admit that in many cases Atlas shell detailing is better, I am reminded of the old saying, beauty is only shell deep, but ugly goes clear to the mechanism. I do not own any Athearn locomotives, so I can not comment on them. I don't own any Bachmann either so I will not comment on them. Intermountain is slightly worse than Atlas, but that is no suprise since they are using the same poor design as Atlas on thier tunnel motors. But thier F-Units are much better in both design, pulling power and operation than the tunnel motors. I do have several of the Fox Valley GEVO's, but I had several DOA units there too. I realize that some of the comparisons may not be square, in that the actual models are not compared against each other, only the overall reliability and performance on the aggregate. But then again, Atlas and Kato do not make any locomotives that are the same models. What will be interesting is comparing the Kato GEVO's to the Fox Valley GEVO's head to head. But all things being equal, an Atlas shell on a Kato mechanism would be the best of both worlds, assuming the ditchlights from Kato would still work, it just isn't really ever going to happen again.
it's pretty much a toss up between Kato and Atlas for Diesels for me, I have AB and an ABA set of F3/F7 in Kato, both 1st, 2nd, and 3rd run, and I love them, the 1st run Kato is actually on it's 2nd motor now. but htey have been reliable, and solo or as a team have a very respectaple pulling capacity. I also have a SD45, Pretty awesome loco too, just out of my era. I keep it for sentimental reasons, it was the first loco I bought with my own hard owned allowanc. The Atlas' I have far outnumber the Katos. I have a GP7, GP9, first run RS1, B40-8, and a VO1000. all are smoother runners, all have respectaple power, all are very reliable. The GP9 gave me a headake when decodering it, for some reason it ran like crap after I took it apart and reassembled it. never could figure it out, although now it run great, dunno what I did to fix it, something in the multiple disassembly and reassembly. The VO1000 gave me headakes with the pick up whipers, although that was fixed too, kind of a meat grinder now for some reason. overall I like both companys for diesels, and usually buy both, depending on releases. As for steam, I have a basicly, Kato, Bachmanns, Model Power, Minitrix, and of course the required atlas shay. The Kato Mikado is still my best locomotive in the terms of reliability, and smoothness. I have recently decodered it, opted for the in boiler install. The traction tire upgrade is a must for this one. I have a bachman 2-8-0 and a one of the newer 2-6-6-2, and a 4-8-2 Lt. Mt. The 2-8-0 has been a great loco too, good pulling power, slow speed preformance, smooth, and reliable. I bought it used, and some one had decided to blind the 3rd driver, I have no idea why, but it is still a great loco. theonly thing I can complain about with this one has been the pickup has been iffy sometimes, not sure why, I will track it down one of these days. the 2-6-6-2 is a new aquisition, and I really have not had a chance to really evaluate it, so war I am pretty happy with the preformance, althought the pulling power leaves something to desire, I have been told that it is nothing that some bullfrog snot and some extra weight can't fix. I am a little worried about the motor in this one, everything seems a little "tight" and it really don't start moving untill about 50% throttle, but once moving I can back it off to about a third and it will crawl pretty damn good. The Lt. Mountian is too new, and not decodered, so it doesn't have much run time. althogh it is smooth. The Model powers have suprized me, I have the Pacific, and the 4-4-0. They are both the no traction tire versions. the 4-4-0 I picked up as a basket case, and had to totally rewire it, but it is a smooth runner, pretty close to prototype on pulling power, and just all around one of my favorites. it would benifit from better full tender pickups. The Pacific is a great and smooth runner. the Pulling power is lacking, I have plans for the traction tires if I can ever find one. Again, this is one that would benifit from full tender pickups too. The Minitrix I have is one of the old 0-6-0, B6b wannabe's. by far my oldest steamer, and still suprizes me, a pretty smooth runner, it can crawl pretty good for it's age, and it seems to have pretty good pulling power for it's age. I have added tender pickups using the Bachmann tender trucks from a 2-8-0 a world of diffrence, I have not found a turn out that it can't tackle yet. Not much to say about the atlas shay that hasn't been said. it is a bear to tune, and a bear to put a decoder in, but worth it in my book. I have an Intermoutain F7, but without a decoder, it hasn't got enough run time to form any kind of review on it. Overall, when it comes to Diesel, it is hard to beat Kato and Atlas, and I would own both. For steam, well you are going to have to tinker with almost anything, but again the Katos seem to be the front runners followed by the Bachmann spectrums.
Based on my limited collection of N-scale locos [35] my order of preference for birthday gifts from my children, grandchildren and great grandchildren would be: [1] Kato, [2] Fox Valley [unbelievable detail, quiet as an ant crawling across sandpaper, smooth running out of the box (and best of all for this 80 year old set of hands and fingers) "plug and play" DCC conversion] and [3] Life-Like Proto Heritage steam engines [awesome smooth runners with Lentz decoders]. I only purchase and utilize Atlas Shay locos for my logging component and one Atlas VO-1000 as a test engine for experimental purposes as I learn to run interlocking schedules with RR&Co. I do not want to risk a horrible accident with two of my Katos! I made only one HUGE mistake several years ago when first downsizing from HO to N in the purchase of engines. I paid big bucks for a brass Key 4-9-2 because it had awesome detail and was the only steam available at the time [prior to the release of the Kato Mike.] This Key never ran worth a hoot and sits under glass as a "paperweight" on the display shelf! I was intrigued by DCESharkman's reasoned statistical analysis of the reliability factor. Thank you for that sir.
For diesels, in terms of fine detail, good mechanism, reliability, pulling power and smoothness I will rate (1) Kato (2) Atlas (3) Athearn and InterMountain in this order. Bachmann make horrible diesels, I owned a few and they are junk but strangely many modelers praise their steamer engines. I have a pair of FVM Gevos and find the models superbly made, good details and good smooth running motors. I hope their future releases would be as good or if not better than Kato. Cheers,
IMO the new Atlas Locos with scale speed motors, are superior. Unbelievable slow speed, great scale top speed, quiet operation, great detail.
Perhaps I was a bit unfair in my evaluation of Atlas. I DO NOT have extensive experience with the newest motors.
Since the INDIANA RAILWAY doesn't own any of those new-fangled diesel engines, we can't say much about them. The Boss has ridden on a few and says that they will be taking over from our steam power in 20-30 years. If they can get all the bugs worked out of them. Until then we will stay with steam power. He did mention that the KATO Company makes some fine running engines and that the ATLAS Company is hanging right in there with KATO. Since we have a few steamers, we feel that we can afford to make a few judgment calls on the quality issue. For the BEST ALL AROUND steam engine: KATO 2-8-2 Mikado. Runs like a watch and will continue to do so. Bachmann is producing a 2-8-0 that has consistently run very well also. Bachmann has also been making some other steam power, but general running quality has been very hit or miss. Life-Like/Walthers makes some great looking steam power, but performance has not lived up to expectations. The 0-8-0 was a great disappointment. The engine looks good, but traction issues won't let it pull like it should. But it appears that LL/Walthers is working on improving their steam power line, so we shall see. Athearn makes two BIG steamers the 4-8-8-4 & the 4-6-6-4, both of which run fine and look fine. Make sure that you get the latest issues with the new decoders in them. The early issue MRC decoders are JUNK! NOTE: If you are going to run BIG steam, make sure you have the trackwork to handle the engines. Both the 4-8-8-4 & 4-6-6-4 look silly running on any curve smaller than 20" radius. CON-COR has several interesting steamers. The 4-6-4 Hudson(made by KATO) was/is still a fine running engine. The detail on the engine leaves a little to be desired, but then the engines are 30+ years old. The 4-8-4 S-2 (early units were made by KATO) are good also. One surprise lately was the 2-10-2's. The engines PULL and PULL and PULL, are designed for drop in decoder installation, and look good. To check out the different engine designs and performance ALWAYS go to:N Scale Locomotive Encyclopedia This guy has a VERY big database on all N-Scale power.
In N scale I would have to agree that Kato is ahead of the rest; for reliability, and detail. Fox Valley is attempting to catch up and love there dcc adaptability simply the easiest on the market. Atlas has been around to long and just seems satisfied with how it's going with no desire to improve/change. Athearn seems to be more toward visual details than reliability. Broadway limited is quite limited in there selection in N scale; And Bachmann are for the most part are toys in comparison to the others mentioned.
OH NOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Not the "Who makes the best loco" question again. I'd have to go with this, if you like it, then it's good and that's pretty much that. It's all an opinion and every one has one of those just like they have an ........... ummmm well, I best leave that unsaid. Just enjoy the hobby and all else falls into place.
Then you have someone post something like this, "Atlas has been around to long and just seems satisfied with how it's going with no desire to improve/change." that is just plain ridicules!
Seems to be that most, myself included, find KATO on the top of the list, finely high tech. ATLAS is right on their heels, suprising detail and smooth running. Falling in 3rd is the new Walthers LIFE LIKE, surprisingly great running Diesels. Intermountain, Athearn after that. fatalxsunrider43
On a related topic, I've been surprised by the latest MSRP prices from Atlas. It looks like a lot of their catalog releases (by that I don't mean items in their catalog, but rather re-releases of items that were designed/tooled in the past and have had multiple releases) have gone up by 15% to 25%. GP30/GP35/GP7/GP9 all seem to be affected. This is creating a widening gap between Atlas and Kato's rereleases (typically F units). As others have mentioned, a key part of the value equation is "what do I need." In that area, despite rising prices Atlas continues to amaze with the variety of second tier road name offerings (as well as multiple schemes on popular roads). I can remember when as a Burlington fan you could buy any off the shelf unit you wanted in Burlington as long as it was either a (Atlas/Kato) GP35 or U25B in chinese red. Now Atlas has produced upgraded Chinese red GP40's, GP35's, GP30's, U25B's, SD24's and apparently has announced an SD7 as well. In addition, they've produced in Blackbird (the proper scheme) an SD7 and an upcoming GP7. So, hats off to Atlas, but Kato is still my producer of choice. :thumbs_up:
The new motors have nothing to do with improving an outdated design. The spring contacts for the electrical connection from the motor leads to the light board is one of the weaknesses od the Atlas locomotives. The spring factor can easily change with time and temperature. As an example, running a train in the cooler morning was more reliable than running the same train in the warm afternoon. The temperature change from the ambient and the heat from the motor distrorted the motor contacts enough to move off of one pad. You can also have an Atlas locomotive work one day, set it aside for a week and have issues with it running as well. I have never seen that with any Kato locomotive. The only way to have truely reliable operation with the Atlas design is to solder a jumper wire to the end of the motor lead and then solder the other end to the pad in the light board or decoder. In some cases the manufacturers of DCC replacement boards have placed slots in the decoder boards to allow soldering the contacts to the board as part of the installation process. In any event, the neccesity to have to fix the electrical problems on almost every locomotive Atlas makes is pretty sad when Kato and Fox Valley can have such simpler and more reliable electical connections. You should not have to do this for locomotives that cost at or near $100. But once the needed modification is done, Atlas locomotives will be much more reliable. And they do start to give Kato a run for the money. But out of the gate, Kato still wins.
Well, yeah... It's different opinion's that I am looking for. Thank you to all of you that posted. I will definitely be looking at some Kato power in the near future.
I feel that Kato has the best 'bang for the buck' models on the market. They are reliable models which are affordable in todays market. Kato makes the models in their own factory in Japan; while most other model railroading companies [Atlas, Athearn, Walthers/LifeLike & Intermountain Railway Co... Etc... are importers of models made in China by Kader (Bachmanns parent company). http://www.kader.com/ As a result, as far as I'm concerned, they are generally about equal to each other... with some differences in the price points. For instance... regular Bachmann versus Spectrum (Bachmann) are made with a different clientele in mind. Spectrum is hobby quality... while regular Bachmann is 'toy quality'. The other companies are virtually equal to each other in the clientele they are marketing to... BLI and perhaps Intermountain might be looking at a slightly higher market clientele. Aside from China and Japan... Korean concerns (Ajin Precision and Samhongsa) have played a small part in manufacturing some items in the past. Atlas and Model Power used Korea for a few of their models... but generally they were not very well received due to some performance and quality control issues. In response to Norseman Jacks comments about the prices of Atlas models... One of the biggest concerns I have is the lack of competition left in the MANUFACTURING of model railroad items. Once Sanda-Kan manufacturing was absorbed by Kader... that pretty much only left Kato and the Korean firms as viable MANUFACTURERS of the models outside of China. Without getting too 'political'... the Chinese concern (Kader] is getting an upper hand on the market and could drive the remaining manufacturers out of the market. It seems to me that without DIRECT competition in China... the monopolistic tendency to rachet-up prices is very likely the reason behind the surge in MSRP for Atlas and other model railroad hobby importers using [Kader'] Chinese factories.
