The Siskiyou line

Ironhorseman Dec 17, 2008

  1. Ironhorseman

    Ironhorseman April, 2018 Staff Member In Memoriam

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    I watched channel 12, (KDRV Medford, OR) last night and was surprised to see an article about the Siskiyou Line: The small California City of Montague is teaming up with the City of Weed and Siskiyou County to explore the possibility of operating the line. No name was given as to who would operate it, but I would not be surprised if the Yreka Western would be in line for the job.

    The City of Montague has received a $70,000 grant to research the proposal, and is currently in contact with the owner of the line, Union Pacific. No further information about that at this time.

    It is strange, because I was under the impression RailMark was working to take over the Siskiyou line. But then again, there are unsubtantiated rumors RailMark has bought out the YW, or at least purchased notes delaying foreclosure on the YW and engine #19. Either way, it would be a great benefit for the Siskiyou line to be reopened.
     
  2. BoxcabE50

    BoxcabE50 HOn30 & N Scales Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    What has been ongoing these past couple of years, would make a unique soap opera.

    Boxcab E50
     
  3. Siskiyou

    Siskiyou In Memoriam

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    I caught this, too, Bill - interesting. Lots of players, so that it can get a little confusing.

    Scott
     
  4. SP Cabforward

    SP Cabforward TrainBoard Member

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    Hmm, interesting. I'd like to see how this plays out. Hopefully trains get rolling again soon.
     
  5. YoHo

    YoHo TrainBoard Supporter

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    So, when you say the siskyou line do you just mean the hill?

    I know I've asked this before, but if Coos bay owns that branch and someone else operates the hill (to what point?) what's left of CORP?

    And where is the interchange point?
     
  6. SP Cabforward

    SP Cabforward TrainBoard Member

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    Eugene to Medford is my understanding of it. I also heard of the the Siskiyou line being taking over all the way to Dillard. I think what would also be taken over would be from Montague south to Weed and Black Butte Jct. I've heard different things, but I think the Medford to Eugene would be all that will be left of CORP.
     
  7. YoHo

    YoHo TrainBoard Supporter

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    Pardon the ignorance, but is are their customers between Black Butte Jct. and Medford? Or would it just be a bridge line?
     
  8. SP Cabforward

    SP Cabforward TrainBoard Member

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    There is the Yreka Western at Montague and then there is Roseburg Forest Products in Weed. I think there might be a couple of other mills in Weed, but I'm not sure.
     
  9. Pfeifer

    Pfeifer TrainBoard Member

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    YREKA WESTERN RR will always come through!!! Pfeifer
     
  10. CAPFlyer

    CAPFlyer TrainBoard Member

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    Unless CORP has changed its mind and is willing to give up a portion of that line that actually has customers on it now, I'm not sure what they're looking to do. The part of the line that is currently closed has no active customers. The tracks up to the YW interchange and from Weed north to the start of the pass is still open. CORP even has a couple of engines at Weed to service customers as needed.

    Funny thing is that the report lied about one thing. While UP owns the line, CORP leases it. For anyone else to get into the line first the CORP has to abandon the lease on it or the UP has to take it. Unless they just want to run trains over the hill or they're willing to pay CORP a large sum of money, that $70K is wasted money. The only track CORP has closed is from Ashland to Hornbrook. The rest is open, it's just that Roseburg and its "gang" has decided that they shouldn't have to pay their fair share like everyone else on the lines did.

    Oh well, that's typical government for you - Waste taxpayer money on "feel good" projects instead of first finding out what the issue really is.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 18, 2008
  11. traindude109

    traindude109 TrainBoard Member

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    Well regardless, I am hoping for the best. We need freight rolling back over the Siskiyou Line again.
     
  12. CAPFlyer

    CAPFlyer TrainBoard Member

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    Sorry, but I doubt you'll ever see another car over the hill. It's just not a practical line segment to operate. From Weed north to Hornbrook you'll see cars if the customers decide to get off their high horses instead of trying to convince everyone that they're going to go out of business if the railroad doesn't give them their old rates again all the while they're shipping by truck and doing just fine with the demand that they have and no major increase in cost...

    Ain't playing politics fun? :mmad:
     
  13. Ironhorseman

    Ironhorseman April, 2018 Staff Member In Memoriam

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    With all due respect ... I would hardly call a $3,000 per car "sur charge" a "fair share".
    In my opinion, Rail America / CORP are holding the Siskiyou line hostage in an effort to force the shippers, (or the "gang" as you describe them) to pay that unreasonable rate, just as it appears they did on the Coos Bay line.

    If Rail America feels they can't operate the line at a profit, they should abandon their lease and allow someone else to pick it up. It would appear to be a win-win position because RA would not have the maintenance or operation expenses and CORP would still receive the freight that comes from Black Butte and Medford.
     
  14. traindude109

    traindude109 TrainBoard Member

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    I totally agree with you Bill. I don't see how a ridiculous rate increase like that could lead CORP/Rail America to call this situation a rate dispute and nothing more. What a bunch of crap.

    And if they don't want to operate the line so bad, I don't understand why they keep hanging onto it. Let someone else resume operations if they are willing to. What else do you expect from these types of companies......
     
  15. Siskiyou

    Siskiyou In Memoriam

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    Smoke and mirrors


    I, too, completely agree with Bill. the goings-on with "the gang" and the rail players is complex. With his experience, I think Bill probably is in the best position to understand what's happening, as confusing as it may be.

    To answer a couple prior posters' questions, the term "Siskiyou Line" can be confusing. When SP opened the "Natron Cutoff," or "Cascade Line" in 1926, the old rail line from Springfield (Eugene) to Black Butte lost its mainline status and became the "Siskiyou Line." Wood product industries kept it active. When, a few years ago, "Big Yellow" gobbled up the SP, the Siskiyou Line fell to UP ownership, but UP leased it (as well as the line from Eugene to Coos Bay) to CORP. Currently, CORP operates between Medford and Springfield and - with irregular service that I can't keep track of - between Black Butte and Montague or Hornbrook. Occasionally, we see equipment pass through Ashland, but trains don't operate Medford-Ashland.

    For anyone who thinks that trucking is an acceptable alternative, come on up and drive I-5 along the Siskiyou Line. Bring an extra set of shocks.

    Scott
     
  16. YoHo

    YoHo TrainBoard Supporter

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    What has changed since the late 1990s when Railtex was making money on that line?
     
  17. CAPFlyer

    CAPFlyer TrainBoard Member

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    YoHo - The lumber companies stopped shipping as much lumber and the number of plants has steeply declined. Same as what happened on the Coos Bay line. If read the STB decision on Coos Bay, it's very telling what kind of stuff CORP has had to deal with as far as having customers leaving for reasons completely unrelated to the railroad.

    Bill - Sorry, but that's BS. The surcharge didn't get impressed until after the "Gang" formed and told the CORP where they could go with their rate change request. Not the other way around as you want to make it seem.

    BTW, I would seriously suggest you guys actually read the STB decisions (http://www.stb.dot.gov/decisions/re...5F5CFC724A5E5852574F3006A8B79/$file/39410.pdf & http://www.stb.dot.gov/decisions/re...D9DB05E5B8567852574F3006A3BF9/$file/39439.pdf) on the Coos Bay Line instead of just blindling reading the propaganda that has been put forth by the media. I emphasize the word because after I actually read the whole decision and the commentary by the Board on the issue, I realized that 90% of what had been written in various articles that were posted here on this forum was total lies. Much of the accusations made by the "Gang" and the Port had no support in fact and more importantly, the STB saw right through their lies and pretty much told them where they could take their problems and shove it. They basically told the customers and the Port that if they didn't like the situation they had two options - Trucks or buy the line. They had no sympathy for them and in fact, looking at the numbers and what the STB themselves supported - those customers who were affected were looking at no more than a 15% increase in costs to switch to trucking, and most times closer to 10% (the official word was "average of 11%") and there is a major transload facility that was (and is) more than willing to work with everyone affected to ensure that there was no change in the frequency of service for them.
     
  18. Ironhorseman

    Ironhorseman April, 2018 Staff Member In Memoriam

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    Sorry m'friend, but I won't buy that one either! I was employed as an engineer by the YW when CORP notified Timber Products, (and I assume the other shippers) of the $3,000 per car sur-charge. This, in addition to the CORP / RA decision to limit service to the Montague junction caused the mill to turn to trucking to move their products to avoid prolonged deliveries that would be experienced if freight was shipped north via Black Butte, Klamath Falls, Sprignfield; then back down to Roseberg, Medford and White City. I expect that you would understand the dire effect this had, and continues to have on the Yreka Western. The "Gang," or shipper's coalitions did not form until there was a complete failure of negotiations to restablish service at a reasonable freight rate.

    I can't see how you can compare what was, or is going on with the Coos Bay line with the problems and issues concerning the Siskiyou line. And I'm surprised that you think that the coalition of shippers are liars and propagandists. Are you telling us that RA and CORP are lilly white and totally blameless?

    I can imagine there's alot going on behind the scene on both sides that we ... and even you do not know about. Realistically, I would expect both sides to 'fudge' as much as possible to enhance their positions.

    RailTex had no problem making a decent profit while operating over the Siskiyou line. That's what attracted RA to buy the lease. Why else would they take it over? The loss of one mill, (High Ridge) over the past 20 years did have an effect on freight for a while. But Timber Products picked up the slack when they started shipping veneer and peeler-cores, in addition to wood chips. There was plans to bring in logs via rail as well. The number of cars moved to Montague had actually gained above what was being moved prior to High Ridge's closure.

    Regardless ... we need to get freight moving over the Siskiyous again ASAP.

    Merry Christmas :)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 22, 2008
  19. ddechamp71

    ddechamp71 TrainBoard Member

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    Does this mean that the Siskiyou Line is currently closed to operations?

    Dom
     
  20. Ironhorseman

    Ironhorseman April, 2018 Staff Member In Memoriam

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    Dom -

    There have been no regular, scheduled freight moved over the Siskiyou line for well over a year now.
    CORP moves some of their equipment north for inspection periodically, then returns. That's all.
     

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