Is That Old Auction Site Dying?

Pete Steinmetz Jun 8, 2008

  1. Pete Steinmetz

    Pete Steinmetz TrainBoard Member

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    I haven't listed anything since the new feedback policy went into effect. I went on the N Scale part tonight and it didn't seem like there were as many auctions. I haven't kept track of total number in N Scale (7654 tonight) but in looking at SP and UP, it seemed like there wasn't as much as their used to be. The quality didn't seem to be their either.
    Anybody else see the same thing?
    I sure wish there was an alternative site that had a good following. Hopefully with all the angry sellers, someone with deep pockets will start an alternative site. I bet the exodus would be like rats off a sinking ship.
     
  2. Brian K

    Brian K TrainBoard Member

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    I've noticed it as well, but it could just be the start of the normal summer slow down. Every summer around this time the number of auctions usually drops. I guess this fall will be a better test to see if the number of auctions stays the same or increases again.

    Brian
     
  3. Tudor

    Tudor TrainBoard Member

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    Brian is on the nail I think. I havent posted stuff on ebay for some time either. Bought a liitle bit, but I am not as active on it as I used to be. But, it is more personal than an Ebay thing. I burn out every so often, and lay low, then pipe up again later ussally. But as Brian said, the summer months are typically slow on ebay in model rail roading, due to it being largly a seasonal hobby. Summer people tend to be outside doing other things. Only us hard core modelers do it year round, lol..
     
  4. Flash Blackman

    Flash Blackman TrainBoard Member

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    I haven't posted on ebay for a long time. I used to be on ebay a lot, but that was about 5-6 years ago. But I did track the number of N scale auctions each week and as I remember, summer was about 1800 auctions on average. This was down from 2500 on average during Sep, Oct, Nov, etc. I would estimate a forty percent drop during the summer. It was a long time ago (internet time) and it is anecdotal, but some more current sellers can confirm or deny these figures.
     
  5. brokemoto

    brokemoto TrainBoard Member

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    The GF used to list frequently on TASTWANSTMOTAF. She sells mostly jewellery and clothing. She has drifted away to others. Other sellers of her acquaintance have done likewise. I have spoken to a few vendors at the G-berg in Somerset, New Jersey, this weekend. More than a few stated that they had stopped listing altogether, the rest, that they had severely curtailed their activity there.

    It is, in fact, the feedback policy that has driven the sellers from said auction site. No longer can you warn sellers away from a bad buyer. Several sellers have told her that they have been burned by someone that they later found out was a bad buyer. They learned that the buyer was bad only after complaining to other sellers about someone in particular. Another seller would chime in and state that he had experienced problems with that same buyer.

    I have listed only occasionally on TASTWANSTMOTAF. Twice, negative feedback has saved me from a bad buyer. In both cases, an 'ask seller a question' e-Mail raised my neck hairs. In both cases, the 'question' had a hostile tone complaining about shipping, 'as is' policy or other terms of sale. Immediately I suspected that these questioners might win the item, then refuse to pay unless I altered terms and costs to their liking. In both cases, I pulled the questioners' feedback, and both had numerous negatives which stated that they had done what I had suspected of them more than once. Of course, I blocked them immediately.

    Now, there is no way for a seller to know if a buyer is troublesome.

    To rub this bad policy in the face of the sellers, when a buyer goes to leave feedback, a message flashes on the screen that informs the buyer that he can be 'honest' about his feedback, as the seller can not leave negative for him. More than one seller has told me that he has received negative or neutral feedback for a transaction that went smoothly. One seller mentioned that he did manage to retaliate by buying an inexpensive item from the buyer that gave him the negative, then left horribly negative feedback for the person that blasted this person both as a buyer and seller.

    This policy came in after a shuffle in senior management, there. That same senior management should reconsider it. The purpose of the feedback is to make buyers and sellers alike aware of the people with whom they deal.
     
  6. Flash Blackman

    Flash Blackman TrainBoard Member

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    So where do they go? Do they just sell locally like on Craig's List? Are there specialty auction sites just for jewelry (or trains)? I haven't found anything like that for trains.

    Maybe this is the time to get on the TrainStore on TrainBoard, but we don't have auctions there, AFAIK. I've never seen the auction system functioning on TB. There are a lot of items for sale there, but no active auctions right now.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 8, 2008
  7. Grey One

    Grey One TrainBoard Supporter

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    When it is time to thin my collection I'll be using trainboard.
    I never use auction sights.
     
  8. NikkiB

    NikkiB TrainBoard Member

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  9. bryan9

    bryan9 TrainBoard Member

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    Econ 101, or why the N scale market on eBay will tank

    Whether there's a decline in the number and quality of N scale listings is debatable, but economics theory says that a decline is pretty much inevitable. I'm not an economist, I hasten to add, but that's my reading of my son's micro textbook. If there are any real economists aboard, please comment!

    Here's why. In a monopoly market, a rationally managed firm will overcharge and underproduce. The resulting loss in social utility is called the deadweight effect.

    eBay certainly acted like the monopoly it is last January, when it hiked final value fees from 5.75% to 8.75% -- more than 40% -- for items that sell for $25 or less. (Fees for items over $25 are only 3.5%.) I surmise that eBay is struggling with high transaction costs, particularly for low-priced items. Their calculations must have shown that the new fee structure would drive away many low-price sellers, but they'd make more money in the end.

    The trouble is, for N scale sellers, almost all of our transactions are $25 or under. So we were disproportionately affected by the fee hike.

    Faced with a steep fee hike, sellers will rationally do all they can to evade it. Options:

    1. Try to make money from high shipping/handling fees. This has produced absurd distortions in many eBay selling categories. eBay will have to act to contain this practice.

    2. Explore all other selling avenues and, if successful, stop listing on eBay.

    3. List fewer items that will sell for less than $25. Exception: junk that you just want to get rid of and get at least something back

    4. List more items that will sell for more than $25, since the amounts over $25 are charged only 3.5%.

    Theory would suggest, then, that you'll see fewer listings overall, fewer quality items with under-$25 starting bids, more cheap junk, and proportionately more high-priced items.

    And that's exactly how you ruin an auction site.

    If many of us seem to sense that the 'golden age' of N scale buying and selling on eBay is over, well, that's what they mean by loss of social utility.

    There is, nevertheless, a ray of hope amidst the gloom. Monopolies have NO incentive to innovate -- which means that they're dangerously vulnerable to competition from radical new technologies.

    Trust me, there are dozens -- if not hundreds -- of incredibly bright people at Google who are trying to figure out how to eat eBay's lunch!

    --Bryan
     
  10. EMD trainman

    EMD trainman TrainBoard Member

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    I also think it may be a economy thing, I use e-bay to look for discontinued G scale trains and only 99 USA trains were listed. LGB G scale is the only trains that are being sold like crazy since LGB America in is terrible turmoil and all production has been stopped. I hear alot of people praise craigs list, I would love to see train store take off and have more listings, there should be a G scale section as well as a alternative scale section. There are still a couple of discontinued pieces of G scale I'm seeking, is there any want ads in train store? Itry to go to the East Coast large scale train show every year, I find only 1 or 2 discontinued items I seek every year I go.
     
  11. Flash Blackman

    Flash Blackman TrainBoard Member

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    I pretty much agree with Bryan9.

    Somewhat off subject is the idea that ebay used to be a fair idea of the market price of model trains, at least for some period of time. Based on the Business Week article listed above, ebay's business model is evolving away from bidding, so that will no longer be true. You no longer will have a chance to get a bargain; you have to take the price offered.

    As long as it makes more money for ebay, it is the proper thing for them to do it. But, as posited above by deljohnb, is ebay correct in what they are doing? It's all evolving.
     
  12. AB&CRRone

    AB&CRRone TrainBoard Supporter

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    I don't know the answer but train store does have a "search" feature. Wouldn't hurt to try it.


    Ben
     
  13. BoxcabE50

    BoxcabE50 HOn30 & N Scales Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    An interesting article. I am continually noticing many mentions of people moving away, (as I did), and setting up their own web sites. For example, I have seen this many times in the "Costco Connection" monthly magazine. Why not? If the trend is to fixed price sales, do we really need that e- intermediary any more? No. Web sites are cheap, and not really difficult to set up.

    Meanwhile, any N scale surplused from my accumulation, has been offered here via TrainStore. Where there is no interference. And no cost involved!

    Boxcab E50
     
  14. brakie

    brakie TrainBoard Member

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    When I first started E-baying in 2003 there was plenty of good deals to be had and as the good deals begin to fade because of more bidding-including shell bidding no doubt-I begin to find better prices from on line shops..I closed my account in 2005.Early 2008 I begin to think about opening new account and I watched e-bay for several weeks and notice there wasn't that many "good deals" to be had and once again the better deals was found on line including some forum's buy/sell/trade areas..So..no e-Bay for me.
     
  15. BoxcabE50

    BoxcabE50 HOn30 & N Scales Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    We do have an "Other Scales" area at present. However, Charlie and staff are always interested in making the TrainBoard family even better. A "G" specific area is certainly something to consider for the future. You might drop an e-mail to support@trainboard.com And pass along your thoughts. Any change might not be immediate, but there's no harm in placing the idea.

    Boxcab E50
     
  16. redscamper

    redscamper TrainBoard Member

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    Several off the top of my head observations.

    I'm not sure exactly what is going on with eBay. It is not the website/auction it used to be and I'm not sure what eBay is trying to do or which direction it will end up going.

    As several people have posted already, summertime is a slow time for hobby/train sales on eBay. Will train auctions come back to pre-summer levels, who knows?

    The feedback/seller's fee mess needs to be re-looked at by eBay. This area is already starting to affect the website. eBay should pay more attention to the buyers and sellers. And even more attention to the sellers, after all this where the $ comes from.

    If there is/was another auction website that is worth a hoot, count me in! Google comes to mind for example. But then Yahoo fell on it's face in the auction department.

    If you attempt to sell anything on Craigslist be aware that you will receive ad answers from a lot of those Nigerian Bankers, Lottery Winners, and other assorted scam artists. If you list something for sale they will offer double your price, but will want to pay for the item with a bank check(which is always worthless!) or will want your bank's numbers to transfer the $ into the account(yeah right!). So be VERY aware of selling on CRAIGSLIST.

    Trainboard is looking better and better for selling train stuff because it is directed towards the group that I want to sell to. I've got enough to sell because the silent auction, that I had been counting on at the 2008 Derby City Express, is not going to happen. Insert your choice of *#@^+* words here!

    'NUFF SAID!
     
  17. riverotter1948

    riverotter1948 TrainBoard Member

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    The month I joined eBay - May 1999 - auction volume was 2.1 million.

    eBay auction volume peaked in Nov 2006 at ~19.7 million

    The last four years ('05 - YTD '08) average monthly volume has run 13 - 14 million auctions.

    It will be very interesting to watch what happens in the rest of '08 as these new policies are fully implemented.
     
  18. Tony Burzio

    Tony Burzio TrainBoard Supporter

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    I've bought extensively on that site since the policy has gone into effect, and will continue to do so. If you don't want to sell and get a good price, try a swap meet! I'll be happy to get your stuff for way too little...:tb-biggrin:
     
  19. ljudice

    ljudice TrainBoard Member

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    Just a couple of observations, as someone who has purchased and sold on Ebay - as a hobbyist, not any kind of dealer...

    The really serious anger at Ebay is with those who've build small to medium sized business around the site. For them, it's a disaster to deal with higher fees and restrictions which seem to be designed to drive away smaller sellers and reward massive ebay partners. For example, "Buy.com" has millions of listings on Ebay, they come up first in searches, and apparently they are getting some massive break on fees.

    Ebay management has repeatedly said they want to get out of being a "flea market" and become a "mall".

    Personally, I'm really angry with the feedback thing - I worked hard to keep 100% feedback over 4-5 years - and lost it now due to one "neutral" LAST AUGUST! Of concern is that when you enter your feedback now, there's a popup that says "by the way, in case you didn't know feel free to give negative or neutral feedback and don't worry about retaliation, because sellers can't give it anymore" (I am para-phrasing). If you drop below some (now very easy to hit) threshold, your paypal funds will be withheld for up to 21 days - which sounds like a free loan to Ebay, etc...

    For model railroading, I think the impact is less (and I agree the smaller listings are more summer and lousy economy than anything else). But over time I think we will be driven away, since we don't fit the business model anymore.

    Lou

    [check "Seller Central" discussion forum at ebay for more info if you want]
     
  20. NorsemanJack

    NorsemanJack TrainBoard Member

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    I haven't posted an ebay listing for years. It used to be a good approach, but it seemed like I was spending a lot of time listing, tracking, etc. I've found a much better approach to be just setting up my own "for sale" webpage with photos, etc. and passively making people aware of it through avenues such as "Nscaleyardsale" on Yahoo (highly recommended) and adding a link to my Trainboard footer (see below). Some of the railroad specific Yahoo groups (such as CBQ) allow for-sale postings of items related to that road. That's proven to be a good approach as well. I like dealing with participents of Trainboard and other on-line communities, since they're a great bunch to deal with and that just makes things easier. :thumbs_up:
     

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