What's BarstowRick Up To?

BarstowRick Apr 29, 2023

  1. BarstowRick

    BarstowRick TrainBoard Supporter

    9,511
    5,673
    147
    You are so right. The small picture I posted here of a RPO is marked as Great Northern.

    I will have to check the source of the photo with the Pennsylvania passenger cars in the background. I believe you are right. Edited add on: You are correct the picture was taken at the Chicago Coach Yard.

    I did find a CB&Q Great Northern Sleeper in the Green and Orange livery. Possibly a repaint for museum purposes.

    Santa Fe did host foreign passenger cars as did others.

    There isn't a lot of Great Northern resources on line so tracking what they did is difficult. The guys and gals that filmed the Great Northern are limited and the film is poor. At least those films I've seen. Unless you know something I don't.

    More later.
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2023
    badlandnp, BNSF FAN and DeaconKC like this.
  2. NorsemanJack

    NorsemanJack TrainBoard Member

    2,264
    946
    51
    CB&Q owned some of the cars that made up the consists of the NCL, EB and CZ. They were painted in the trains' paint scheme with smaller ownership lettering indicating ownership (which was largely irrelevant). I believe in the case of NCL and EB, CB&Q owned one complete train set of the five or six sets used for daily runs in each direction. For the CZ, I believe it was three CB&Q, two DRGW and one WP. The ratios were based on the portions of the route miles supported by each road. Actually, I think there were six complete CZ sets, but I'm not sure about the overall ownership.

    I have a number of books for all of the Hill lines. The Strauss GN books are the most thorough, although they can be a bit of a dry read for the casual fan. That is where I learned about Great Domes and Great Dome Lounges. I believe that Strauss was a long time GN employee, so really knew the history.
     
  3. BarstowRick

    BarstowRick TrainBoard Supporter

    9,511
    5,673
    147
    Jack, I appreciate all the shared information.

    I'll turn to you for more GN history and information.

    Now I'm off to see if I can find some green paint for my Rivarossi GN Passenger cars. Time to eliminate the shine of those orange ends.

    Later!
     
    badlandnp, NorsemanJack and BNSF FAN like this.
  4. NorsemanJack

    NorsemanJack TrainBoard Member

    2,264
    946
    51
    Glad to share Rick. A lot of the info I post is stuff I probably read ten or fifteen years ago, so no guarantees of accuracy. I am a big passenger fan and also a fan of the Hill lines (CB&Q, GN, NP and SP&S). I have a LOT of books covering those, but while I eat the photos up like candy, I can't guarantee that I've read all of the text. I like the Morning Sun books for the extensive color photos. FourWaysWest also has a lot of great color pictorials, but also extend into more extensive texts providing more in depth history. I also have a large collection of Green Frog videos, mostly outstanding Emery Gulash works. I know that a lot of folks here own train videos, but am often surprised by how little praise is voiced for Emery's work. That man was extremely talented, and spent heavily on 16mm film when most were cheaping out with 8mm (IIRC). If anybody wants any recommendations, please tell me your roads of interest and I might be able to point you in the right direction. I know we have some DRGW fans here. If you gentlemen don't already own the video in the link below, then you are dead to me (jk). Green Frog/Emery also did a lot of fantastic ATSF stuff. I even have all of his NYC, PRR and Penn Central releases, even though they aren't among my primary roads of interest. Who could avert their eyes from double headed GG1's? Hey, don't knock it until you try it!

    DVD Rio Grande Odyssey-Remastered - Welcome to Green Frog Productions
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2023
  5. BarstowRick

    BarstowRick TrainBoard Supporter

    9,511
    5,673
    147
    Jack, Don't say DEAD to a mortician. It does things in his head you don't want to know about. I had my car loaded with a guerney, rubber gloves, a pen and paper in hand, all set to make a removal. Aiiyiiyii !! I didn't just share that did I?

    I have several Green Frog Productions on V.C.R. tape. Emery Gualsh, is one of my favorites. The D&RGW tapes with shots of the early Pioneer, a Salt Lake to Denver passenger train. Then there's the Flyer (I'm forgetting something here) that went from Denver, Salt Lake to Oakland, Ca. In D&RGW livery. The Forerunner of the California Zephyr.

    Sadly, passenger equipment you can't find readily available. I found some custom N Scale Heavy Weights but wowwa the price. Rivarossi's Heavy Weights, with custom D&RGW lettering. The seller deserved every penny of it but not out of my pocket.

    Never know who you are going to run into here on TrainBoard.

    Don't stop chiming in here.

    Catch you later!
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2023
  6. BarstowRick

    BarstowRick TrainBoard Supporter

    9,511
    5,673
    147
    I did find some Acrylic Great Northern Green paint. I also found some Floquil GN Green paint. I prefer the Floquil Paint Line over most other competitors. A bit expensive so we shall see how this works out after I get to Pay Day on the 3rd of the month.:sneaky::);)

    I will be mounting Micro-trains Streamliner passenger trucks on the Rivarossi cars. This will make for better operations. Did I ever say I'm not one of those who weeps and cries over MTL. Throws a fit or tantrum on the floor!! No, I didn't say or do that. I've always been Micro-Trains Lines hard core cheerleader. Salute MTL.(y)(y)(y)

    MTL I like the Slack feature. About as real as it can get. Toy train operators need not pay attention to this. Go play with your trains. :confused::D:rolleyes:o_O:cool:

    It's time to get out the work trains, bunk cars, shower car, portable out-houses, an official observation car, Foremans crummy/office, test train and start work on the layout.:sick:

    Later all !!
     
    badlandnp, BNSF FAN and DeaconKC like this.
  7. Doug Gosha

    Doug Gosha TrainBoard Member

    3,595
    7,664
    80
    Weren't the Great Northern cars pretty stiff?

    Doug
     
    BNSF FAN and BarstowRick like this.
  8. BarstowRick

    BarstowRick TrainBoard Supporter

    9,511
    5,673
    147
    Aww ugh, Seriously? There's another word you don't use around a Mortician, "Stiff". Conjurer's up all kinds of memories and visions you can't discuss in public. :sick::censored:;)

    As to the Rivarossi Streamline passenger cars. I've been very pleased with them. They have interiors, you can add lights, and it's an easy fix to switch out the trucks. If you want figures haunting the inside, it's easy to get to the interior. The one constant irritant was the Rapido Couplers. Sitting in a coach yard waiting to be serviced or switched by a train crew making up a passenger train. The Rapido couplers just didn't cut it. MTL to the rescue.(y)

    Most of our early passenger train cars, served us (my dad and I) very well. By the way he too was a Mortician. I know like dad like son. Which was most likely a mistake on my part. It is what it is. I did what I did.:confused:

    From the side door Pullman. The layout was once a fixture in my Dad's home. He enjoyed it up until the family and he decided it was time to move closer to my sister. He never saw it up and operating after that. He and the layout ended up at my home in Big Bear Lake. In about the same shape. He passed about two weeks before I had it put back together.

    Interesting story. You can say what you want about it. You can know my Dad, had left me behind at the time of this story. I ran a test train from the bottom to the top. It was point to point as the mainline hadn't been completed. I left the test train facing end of track, shut the place down, offed the power and locked the door. The next morning I found the same train turned around and sitting at the bottom of the coal district. The engine and caboose had been switched out. Yep, I was scratching my head. Hanging in the air a lingering scent, which reminded me of my dad.

    I'll leave you to your own conclusion.

    Never ever saw anything that spooky while working in any mortuary. :oops::cool:

    Never good-bye, but always Later!
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2023
  9. BarstowRick

    BarstowRick TrainBoard Supporter

    9,511
    5,673
    147
    Another set of early passenger cars is the contributions ConCor made. They were slick and filled the gap when others did not. Thanks to ConCor, Rivarossi and did I mention Arnold.

    I recently picked up some Arnold, Southern Pacific Heavy Weights.

    So a shout from the past for some fine Streamliners and Heavy Weights.

    Today, oh my goodness, MicroTrains and the Heavy Weights they've put out. Make my day. Please!!

    Okay, wiring will commence on Monday. Oh what fun this isn't going to be.

    Later all.
     
    BNSF FAN, badlandnp and DeaconKC like this.
  10. NorsemanJack

    NorsemanJack TrainBoard Member

    2,264
    946
    51
    This may not be a popular opinion, but I think ConCor made a bigger contribution to N scale passenger cars than Micro-trains has. Those goofy trucks and mile wide car spacing simply can't be overlooked by this modeler. I bought some, tried to make them better with Z scale couplers, but ultimately gave up. Also, those Atlas/Rivarossi cars from the 60's were also great.
     
    BNSF FAN, BarstowRick and badlandnp like this.
  11. BarstowRick

    BarstowRick TrainBoard Supporter

    9,511
    5,673
    147
    The best thing you can do with passenger cars is body mount the couplers. Downside is if you insist on running with tight radius curves...well...that won't work. You'll need a minimum of 15" radius curves to make it work.

    Another thing you can do is use the dummy Unimate knuckle couplers. Downside to this is you aren't going to be able to switch the cars out. There goes the fun.

    Again, my two cents and I take change.

    Later
     
    badlandnp and BNSF FAN like this.
  12. BigJake

    BigJake TrainBoard Member

    3,259
    6,173
    70
    JMHO, but passenger trains are not really about operations. Sure there's some dis/assembly at major stations, but they're more like through freights, with no switching in between. And most through freights are longer than will comfortably run on small layouts (without chasing their tails.)

    Passenger trains can be the ultimate "high priority through freight" that orbits on the mainline while everyone else dodges them between servicing local industries, kinda like bait fish scrambling for cover when the big fish come around.

    But on a HCD layout, for example, about the best you can do with a minimum radius of 15" is an oval.

    So we compromise. What else is new?
     
    BoxcabE50, badlandnp and BNSF FAN like this.
  13. BarstowRick

    BarstowRick TrainBoard Supporter

    9,511
    5,673
    147
    Andy, although I like your comparison to "priority through freight". Your concept of passenger trains is interesting or provocative. You sound like you are younger then me. So allow me to share something here.

    My working knowledge of passenger trains would never be compared to a through freight. That would be an insult.

    Switching out passenger trains happened on most mainline or class 1 railroads. Sleepers would be dropped off at locations or stations to be picked up by yet another passenger train. For example Kansas City was known for switching out through cars headed for specific locations. Switching from perhaps a Santa Fe Passenger Train to a Rock Island train headed for Albuquerque or Phoenix.

    Mail storage cars got switched by assigned switch crews. Being pulled out of one train and added to another. It was quite the sight at Los Angeles Union Passenger Station to see the switching that went on. Passenger trains once emptied would be hauled over to the Coach yard to be cleaned up and readied for the next trip across this country. Awesome action.

    Check out the videos that are available and you'll see passenger trains being switched in Chicago, Los Angeles and even in Denver. Just to name a few.

    Andy, you missed an awesome time in railroading. History now. Almost forgotten.

    As to a 15" radius oval. If I can find a way to build a layout with a minimum of 15" radius curves and a maximum of 24" radius curves all built in a 10X10' shed. So can you.

    Don't knock it until you try it.

    The thing I need and didn't get was a passenger coach yard where my passenger trains, mail trains and those high priority Fruit Express trains can be made up. Yes they had priority over the freight trains. The only time a crack passenger train took the siding was to wait in the hole for another passenger train passing in the opposite direction.

    Oh it was fun to watch and to listen to the crews operating the freight trains grumble and complain about those arrogant passenger trains.

    You missed out on a great time.

    Later!
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2023
    badlandnp and BNSF FAN like this.
  14. BarstowRick

    BarstowRick TrainBoard Supporter

    9,511
    5,673
    147
    Passenger trains being switched. My eye's on memories took place in Barstow, Ca.

    Barstow Passenger Yard 2.jpg
    Above, the passenger yard is all but full of Santa Fe Passenger trains. Although not visible in this picture are switch crews handling the locomotives, REA cars, Mail Cars and sometimes the RPO cars. Occasionally a sleeper or observation car would be parked under the trees you can see in the background. Honey pots? There's something for you to ponder.

    Barstow Passenger Yard  HW's & Highlevels. 4.jpg
    Above, you can see the switch crew is waiting further orders. If you think the Heavy Weights didn't run at the same time the Hi-level Streamline cars. I'll let the picture speak for itself.

    Visible are the yard offices. You can have all kinds of fun recreating these on your layout.

    One more to see. Feel free to click on it.

    The pictures are courtesy of the W.A.R.M. in Barstow, Ca. Yep, it gets warm in Barstow. Downright HOT at times.

    Does that help?
     

    Attached Files:

  15. BigJake

    BigJake TrainBoard Member

    3,259
    6,173
    70
    Thanks Rick. I was born in '62. I have extended family elders that experienced passenger train travel in Texas in the 40s and 50s. The only passenger trains I have been on are the Rocky Mountaineer (and THAT was fantastic!) and the Trinity Railway Express from Ft Worth to Dallas.

    What I meant, but poorly wrote, is that by comparison, passenger trains have far less switching operations than freight trains, excepting maybe express through freights. Most (not all!) passenger cars continued with the same train they started on for the duration of the entire trip (sometimes a dining or sleeper car gets exchanged at a major passenger station). And while passenger trains stopped at smaller stations for picking up and dropping off passengers (and yes, mail), they did not drop or pick up any cars at the vast majority of stops. Freight trains don's stop (except for waiting in the hole) unless they are picking up or dropping off entire railcars (i.e. a switching move) or crew & fuel/water.

    By comparison to local freight trains, passenger trains exchange cars relatively infrequently.

    If one has a layout with a major passenger station, located at an interchange with another railroad, then all the "operations" occur there, not at every stop the train makes.

    Since most of us don't actually model passengers dis/embarking, there is little to do but pause a passenger train for the majority of its stops.

    But I think I'd like a passenger train as a distraction and obstacle for freight operations.

    That's just my take on it.

    A hollow core door is all the space I have for a model railroad!
     
    DeaconKC, BNSF FAN, BoxcabE50 and 3 others like this.
  16. BarstowRick

    BarstowRick TrainBoard Supporter

    9,511
    5,673
    147
    Looks like we are good.

    A hollow core door is a good solution for building a train layout. Do what you can when you can. Thinking of using one for my Union Passenger Station and Coach Yard.

    I figured that what you clarified here is what you meant. "In Comparison" you pointed out. You're absolutely correct. Freight trains experience more switch moves then the passenger trains. No question there.

    Looking back at what Barstow, Ca., used to be. Oh what fun it was to watch the switch crews pull passenger cars off the passenger trains. Engines dropped and replaced, mail cars, REA as well as sleepers. Noted on several occasions those REA cars added to the front end, along with a storage mail car or two. Often times at the direction of those who traveled in the chartered sleepers.

    Then there happened to be passenger trains that would be split in two. The main part would continue on the home rails, while the other extension continued on down a branch line allowing passengers to access and afluent city. For example. Santa Fe's Oklahoman. Not sure what the original train designation was. Possibly the Grand Canyon or Antelope. I'll have to look that one up. It would terminate in Oklahoma City and return the next day to rejoin with it's counter part.

    Football teams would charter whole passenger trains or a set consist. Any equipment needed to get them from point A to point B. The Masonic Lodge and other types of service clubs would charter whole trains.

    Williams Arizona, saw sleeper cars and others dropped off. In hopes of making it to the south rim of the Grand Canyon. You could find foreign passenger train equipment visiting the Grand Canyon train station.

    Now how do I model the Grand Canyon? Diorama and background only, perhaps. Humm?

    On another note and getting us back to my layout. Looks like the Great Northern Green paint finally showed up. Time to get the brush or air brush out and paint those orange ended cars. Maybe then my Great Northern passenger train won't look so odd.

    Fun times! You know I'd like to recreate some of that.

    Later!
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2023
    Doug Gosha, BigJake, BNSF FAN and 2 others like this.
  17. BarstowRick

    BarstowRick TrainBoard Supporter

    9,511
    5,673
    147
    Just a reminder to myself of the way it was.



    Steam is back on the H&P Railroad.

    Hoping to add a 2-8-2 Great Northern stove to the roster. We shall see what happens next.

    The wireing project is slowly moving along. Time will get'r done.
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2023
    BoxcabE50, MK, BigJake and 7 others like this.
  18. badlandnp

    badlandnp TrainBoard Member

    4,587
    16,153
    90
    Was an awesome bit of trains! And, yes, we all look forward to seeing them engines roll along smartly again!
     
    DeaconKC, BNSF FAN, BigJake and 2 others like this.
  19. BarstowRick

    BarstowRick TrainBoard Supporter

    9,511
    5,673
    147
    Glad you liked my last slide show video. To give you some concept of the kind of operations I enjoy. Here is a video from a group of guys who understand the joys of railroading. Operations on the Oregon...they will explain it. Enjoy!!



    I can spend hours making those kinds of switch moves.
     
  20. BarstowRick

    BarstowRick TrainBoard Supporter

    9,511
    5,673
    147
    I've been in the process of building passenger trains. Wha do I mean by building? Collecting various Rivarossi, ConCor, Arnold and some off brand passenger cars to make up Heavyweight Trains, Streamline and Work Trains or M.O.W..

    I was talking on the phone with a fellow enthusiast and we both noted that you can't get exact replica's of the passengers cars that were built. For example Santa Fe. They had several companies make their passenger cars. Budd, Pullman, American Car Foundry and if you can remember the other two you are doing better then I.

    In N scale Atlas and ConCor came along with the first full length streamline passenger cars. I remember looking at them and no they weren't exactly what I was hoping to find but close enough.

    If I say "We" I mean my dad and I. May he rest in peace. He is missed. We had so much fun!

    We begin to collect what we could find. No computer resources at the time. It was MR's wig wags and Brick and Mortar hobby shops. Off to the shops. As the proprietors paid attention and learned what it is, we we are looking for, we started seeing Union Pacific, Southern Pacific, Santa Fe, Rio Grande passenger cars arriving daily. We had to be quick as we weren't the only ones out there desiring them. You see it, you want it, you better buy it. Down side most of the cars just didn't meet up with our expectations. Yes, there was some disappointment.

    Do I dare mention those darn Rapido Couplers. Why can't we have knuckle couplers like Lionel?

    Okay, I agree. We are nit picky and want exact replica's of the passenger trains we are building. Admittedly so. Yes, we cared.

    Kato came along and hurt our budget big time. Oh, don't get me wrong. They were priced right. Better then the prices you see on E-pay these days. Some where in this experience Dad retired and went on a set income. Never enough money to play with but he could get buy, er-uhh get by. Lucky for me I'm still employed.

    First on my list was a set of Kato set, The California Zephyr passenger cars. All but a complete train. You don't need to guess. Yes, I got it. Head end power that would have to wait. What? Dad pointed out the Coast Daylight. Never mind a GS4 to go with it. Discover card to the rescue. Okay, we are doing pretty good so far.

    At home was a Rio Grande passenger train. Made up of a mix of Heavyweight and Streamline three stripe and single stripe, ConCor and Rivarossi passenger cars. No F types or PA units to pull it. Life Like solved that problem with set of Single stripe ABA units. Now we are on to something. Then there was the custom painted F9's I found in a hobby shop, Riverside, Ca. Not making us happy. Noting the three stripe cars missed the mark. The first stripe should go across on the bottom of the windows. Instead it hung out just below the windows. Again we both did a Harrumph, harrumph but ran them any-old-way. Atlas put out some Rio Grande Geeps and we put them to work pulling the odd mix of Rio Grande passenger equipment.

    We had a set of shorty Santa Fe passenger cars and that, grumble grumble, just didn't suit us.

    I've got to quit for now but there's more to this story. Time for a Del Taco break.

    Later.
     

Share This Page