Kato unijoiners are the most reliable electrical contacts in the MRR business besides soldering. I have three electrical transmission points on over 35 feet of track and I use Kato's power supply tracks no soldering. They connect to a three to one Kato connector which hooks in a lone connection to the power pack. I can run a lashup of 6 locos before I have any barely noticed power drop. I do not run DCC but have several locos that have dual capability of DC or DCC operation. I have had several of those boards fail and have hard wired the locos and bettered the performance of each. In my book DCC is the problem just go back and see all the woes and complaints about it on this board.
Wiring each section is way overkill. I currently have a double track loop of Unitrack that's about 32" x 21'. I'm running it with six sets of feeders total, three per loop, and it runs fine. I probably wouldn't rely on this permanently, but this "temporary" setup has been operational for several years now. Actually, the way DCC combines power and signal is one of it's strengths. Some of the previous attempts at command control used a weak signal superimposed on the power. Since the DCC signal is full power it is much more robust. Also, since there is always full power on the rails DCC is actually less sensitive to voltage drop than DC is. Maybe whoever answered did not understand the question. A momentary SPDT toggle is electrically no different than two separate momentary pushbuttons (except with the toggle you can not close both circuits at the same time). If the DS74 supports momentary pushbuttons, it will also work with a SPDT momentary toggle.
I'm using ME flex and consider the cost of a feeder to each section probably the cheapest part of this whole experience. Granted if you have to add more using Unitrack the cost is going to be a little more but wire is darn cheap compared to about any other aspect of the hobby. I'm not reading about others with Unitrack going that far. I'd say wiring DCC vs. DC is less expensive. I'm wiring my test track layout for both and have 5 sidings that I might want to park a loco on while running another on the test loop. Since I want to also have DC I have to have individual wires and switches to each siding so that I can cut the power to them if a DC loco is on them. If I was only running DCC I wouldn't need any of those switches and the wires would be shorter going only to the nearby buss. If you are going to want to run multiple DC loco's at the same time you are going to need a lot of wiring and switches to control all the blocks those locos are running in. The wiring on a larger layout to accomplish that could turn into a nightmare in my opinion. If you want to run multiple loco's with DC you are going to need multiple throttles and a way to switch any track in use between them. With say DCC++EX for under $75 you can have a DCC Command Station that can run multiple trains with wireless phone throttles all at the same time. The only real added expense would maybe be a couple $30 track boosters. Is DCC less cost than DC? Definitely not as you need decoders and if you want all kinds of other DCC controlled options (not available with DC) it could get a lot more expensive than controlling one or two DC loco's on a layout. Still if you don't want all of the add-ons that you can have with DCC probably not much more if you take the time to learn how to do a few things (and lots of internet help doing that). I buy mostly older DC locos and convert them to DCC for about $15-$25 more (no sound for that amount). If you want a loco to have DCC and sound already installed you are going to be looking at a lot more per loco but do you really need everyone to have sound? I'm converting a few but not a lot to sound. In the end it comes down to more what you want than what it is going to cost in my opinion. Want a lot and it is going to cost a lot. Myself I'm happy to walk around and throw turnouts manually or with cheap servo control and I like adding decoders to DC locos and have found that most of the used ones I've bought look like they were never run so I'm basically getting new locos. Which ever way you end up going hopefully the roadblocks will be diminishing for you , Sumner
During the consideration of going to dcc, remember browsing the Atlas site looking at Locos and it occurred to me that over 50% of current N scale offerings are still DC, the same for Kato. If research done is correct, the first decoders appeared in 89-90, over 30 years ago. Thought it was a bit unusual that DCC with its 30 year history, less than half of the locos produced today by the two top loco manufacture are DCC equipped. Just found it surprising last year.. After the last 7 months, not at all. Additionally, if the majority of newbies experience similar situations, another nail in coffin. Sometime ago watched a youtube video on which is less expensive, DC or DCC. The presenter claimed DCC. Forgetting the added intangible utility derived with sound, control and other digital operations, and just considering wiring, have a hard time balancing cost of block wiring compared to the significant increase in power feeds. Maybe not true for club layouts, but think home layouts. To me DCC is definitely is more expensive but think worth it. At this point though, would never go back to dc unless doing a Christmas Tree circle. Of course, if loco issues persist, may not go back to this at all. Think DCC is a great bridge technology that in ways enables those with old equipment and new to better coexist. To me, just like DCC put control in the hands per loco, the next great step, self powered locos under wired-wireless control will provide an even greater step up. Only use rails to guide the loco... To bad its decades away (at least for n scale)and beyond my lifetime.
John the driving force that got me back into the hobby was visiting a club layout in Phoenix that runs DCC. A member hands me a wireless throttle and turns me loose running a train around the layout. I was hooked and even though at that time I was considering returning to the hobby I had never heard about DCC. I went right home and started reading about DCC and knew that is what I wanted. I looked at commercial DCC systems and soon realized I was going to probably have $400-$500 in a DCC system to get what I experienced in Phoenix. I didn't want to spend that much but would have. Then I ran across DCC++. I could get basically what I wanted for under $100 and have a dedicated layout computer that would also be running JMRI. I went that route and all was good except for some inconsistences in programming decoders. Then Fred and the crew got involved and basically rewrote DCC++ completely and the programming problems went away and they have evolved it into DCC++EX which seems to have more features than some of the commercially available DCC systems and they are still evolving it. Sure if you want to run DCC you are going to have to go back to school some. I like the learning process so view that as a positive and wow what you can do running DCC vs. DC is no comparison in my view so worth having to spend a little more effort in getting in to it. So on 'woes and complaints' on my part. Thanks to all that have made DCC possible, Sumner
I've visited a club layout where they were running a few HO trains so equipped so think N might not be that far away, maybe even in my lifetime and I'm 77. I don't see why it couldn't be done today in fact someone probably has done it. Sumner
I took this poor quality grab shot of my N Scale Atlas RS-3s (Atlas Item 4200, as manufactured by Kato for Atlas some 30+ years ago) this afternoon. Decals are by Northeast, a producer unfortunately long gone. I can't exactly recall what I did for paint, but I'll bet I used Floquil Pullman Green with a few drops of D&H blue added. I never knew there was a difference in CNJ greens (Deep Sea and Austerity) and would probably not recognize one from another. These are DC, but many generations of these have been made, some with DCC. At some point early on, Atlas severed ties with Kato and moved production to The People's Republic of China.
1 feeder per section ???? Not sure who 'feed' you that line on track 'Feeders' !! I laid my large Unitrack layout 9 years ago. I put 1 feeder every 3 sections...and that was overkill !! As far as soldering in the feeders..... I subscribe to the K.I.S.S. theory If you look under a stick of Unitrack you will see small holes onder the rails... https://i1.wp.com/nscalerailroadingmagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/A05-Joining-Track-1.jpg?resize=750,398&ssl=1 Using a pencil tip soldering iron it's simple enough to touch the soldering tip to the rails through those holes with solder on the tip. Yes...the soldering tip will melt a small amount of the plastic at that point....but none I have done are visible from the top of the track !! Attaching a pretinned wire to the solder joint is then a simple 2 second procedure. Clean your soldering tip frequently. I have had zero conductive issues with DCC on my layout. I can never understand why people want to make things more difficult then they need to be Not criticizing...just offering a K.I.S.S. solution...
They look great!! And I see what you are saying about the 2 greens. A while back considered buying unpainted and at hobby shop saw the tamiya Deep Sea and Austerity green. The BLI F3 (little olive grn?) is closer to Deep Sea like yours and on F3 in the youtube video Along the Jersey Central. Pullman green on the passengers.. Oh my, all the greens.
Don't know why all that drilling too.unless converting existing track..but I've seen it twice I used inches of track as the metric. No more than 18" of track between feeders. All feeders within a few inches of power dist block. Yes, watched pfieffers video on track shortening ahile ago since I need to shorten 1 or 2. and saw that metal strip. Definitely a great idea. Also, stumbled on fact, after opening 1st track package, that the small hollow posts underneath can be opened up with pin vise to enable nailing kato track down. The holes are pretty perfectly thru ties. For me, its not the soldering of the metal underneath? for lack of a better phrase. I took some time exploring the Kato site after stumbling on the nail hole option and could not find any reference to it. Another key to a good solder joint is a solid mechanical connection when available. Any movement in the workpiece during solidification can create issues, eg cold solder joints; and so I agree that pre-tinning is the only option since there is no way to first have a solid mech connection. Of course, I pretty much tin stranded for any app.. I've been using rosin core 63-37 for decades on small stuff particularly because it has the lowest melting temp at 357 degF. best chance for least amount of melted plastic as well as, on circuit boards, accidental removal of solder pads-etch due to excessive heat and pressure. Actually, the layout does not appear to have a track power issue. The F3 and loco that I borrowed proved that. Everything except terminal joiners, feeders to power blocks and wire connection to base station is soldered. It will be interesting to evaluate track conductivity over long term. In April, DC resistance per 5" track approx 6 Ohms. Thank you for your input..
look a little earlier.. I read the 1 track per segment in a prior post and was responding in a bit of joke, no offense intended, as never did one feeder per segment ever enter my mind but maybe they were using long flextrack??
Agree.... 1 stick of flex track is 30" 3 pieces of 9.75" Unitrack is 29.25" 1 feeder every 3 pieces of Unitrack would be close enough to that 1 stick of flex. So yea it does compute. Now...about this DCC hate thing.......................
Oh, on the contrary, I like DCC, especially the framework theory behind it. Stumbled on to Berman's videos and then DCC++EX last October. . which ignited the metamorphosis from a 24" round Bachmann track DC Christmas tree decorative setup into a full fledged layout under DCC control. A few years back was itching to do a Pi project and saw some people controlling trains. How cool! For better or worse would not have gone to a regular layout without DCC and DCC++EX. Now have a Pi, 2 Megas, 1 Uno, and 3 motor shields. 1 for Ops, 1 for programming and one to play with... I was merely pointing out that regardless of approach, it can never be as clean as an independently powered loco thereby eliminating, IMHO, the 2 weakest parts of the system, wiring-minimizing IIR loss and continuity interruption and, loco conduction(gauge and metal hitting metal-fretting). The latter has been the issue and to me, the hardest to correct without specific loco skills. Modifying trucks, milling frames is not my expertise so budgeted money to buy new locos assuming that it would result in the best chance and saved some $$ in DCC electronics, which is the primary reason got back into MRR and I love soldering and electronics hardware so it was an easy decision. Other areas of minor concern include eg.. decoder susceptibility to damage from transients and other sorts of power, long term track performance. Also, the latest continuation of Loco problems has just been adding to frustration so overall been a little negative....
Thank you Sumner. I agree 120% and been a DCC++EX evangelist since discovery. Without it, would have not moved from X-Mas tree layout and may have not even bought that. When reviewing commercial DCC systems, went to the Sprog site and while browsing got on to their consulting group pages and saw a PDF on how to mod Plymouth Switcher for DCC. Went ahead and bought one. Using the PIs GPIO and JMRI's ability to control would allow controlling lighting without NCE light decoder or putting lighting in the passenger cars are just samples. These are the types of challenges I was looking forward to spending time, money and learning and making mistakes.. Instead, over the last 5 months, have spent hours in emails, phone calls, shipping. I hate learning how hard it is to get something done right or re-inventing the wheel. While I can't reset the decoder in the new Bachmann GP7, generally it worked the best of the three out of the box. Unsure if you also referring to a comment I made regarding last week's 2 decoder lockups and the possibility it could be the DCC++EX. I should have added that its not the code that is of concern and issue, but the fact that, let's face it, non-arduino branded products like Deek Robots, DIY, made in China and QA is what I was thinking about and in the event decoder issues persist though it was the first time for the F3 and only had GP7 for a few hours. Just a possibility I was throwing out there for the 2 loco decoder issues. Tend to make troubleshooting decisions based on only what is 100% certain. Anyway, just wanted to clarify....
I was just havin' some pro-DC levity , but my new N Scale road will have a control panel friendly to a DCC input as well. I'm actually looking forward to using and learning about it. I have two DCC locomotives (a Kato NW-2 and Athearn 4-6-6-4 with sound) and MRC Prodigy Advance throttle, all given to me by a generous friend) and had great fun with them when I had a test oval set up. I even programmed the NW-2 and felt pretty smug.
Thank you.. I can always count on you to brighten my day. Forgot to mention one other good thing in the last month. Think you will agree... I got 1 of these new. Has minor defect but its a beautiful car as we discussed earlier. My favorite not just in my fleet but really think its the best looking out of most rolling stock. Hard to believe its Trainman level but it brings a smile to my face every time looking at it. So I will to succeed, just to run the car. LOL ;-)
Whoa, that's great Mark! Lovely indeed. I assume that it was a back-alley transaction in hushed voices asking no questions?
