Storytime with Charlie

Charlie Mar 31, 2007

  1. Charlie

    Charlie TrainBoard Member

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    My Dad said, "come with me, I want to show you something". I was maybe 5 or 6 and it was early on a midsummer's evening. He took my hand as we left the house and we walked over to Kedzie Avenue, about 100 ft east of our house. We crossed Kedzie to the east side of the street and walked the short distance north to 61st Street. There was a northbound streetcar stopped at the corner, if my memory serves me right it was a type known as either "turtleback" or "flexible flyer". Both those types were characterized by rounded rather clutter free roofs, without the clerestory window deck that was prominent on the Pullman and Brill types. Anyway,
    the trolley was stopped there and the motorman and conductor were outside looking at the lead truck on this car. The motorman went back to his controls, the conductor signaled him, and the motorman notched out the controller but all that happened was that the powered wheel on the truck just spun merrily around without making contact with the rail! I thought this looked pretty amazing. I don't know what caused this phenomenon nor did it appear the streetcar crew knew. I do know that during WW2 with all the shortages, the Chicago Surface Lines. in an economy move, removed motors on many streetcars. A 4 motor car was reduced to two motors. Smaller two motor cars were reduced to one motor. This greatly reduced speeds and sometimes overheating on the overtaxed motors. I can't say for sure the disabled trolley my dad and I were watching was one of those, but I do know that the other truck remained motionless while the crew was trying to get this crippled car moving. At any rate, the conductor was able to contact their supervisor(emergency phones were located all along the lines)and the result was that a southbound car stopped further north where a crossover was located(crossovers were strategically located as well). The southbound car backed thru the crossing(trailing point switches)and then ran south on the northbound main to the disabled car. A drawbar was produced and the two cars linked. The northbound passengers transferred to the operating car and off went these two venerable vehicles.I shoul add that most of the streetcars of the CSL were double ended cars,making this a rather easy procedure. I am guessing that the broken car was left at the Van Buren St carhouse, which was conveniently located on Kedzie Ave. at Van Buren. So ended my little lesson on how a big city trolley line handled their problems.

    Charlie
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 19, 2015
  2. Hytec

    Hytec TrainBoard Member

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    What I find curious with your story is that neither car had a rerailer, This would have allowed the rescue car to couple onto and pull the derailed car back onto the rail. As I remember locomotives of that time, rerailers were hung on both sides of their tenders for just such a purpose. Maybe all CSL rerailers had been previously donated to a war effort scrap drive. All the same, this sounds like a fun experience for a 5/6 year old.
     
  3. BoxcabE50

    BoxcabE50 HOn30 & N Scales Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    An occasion such as this would have stayed in my memory.
     
  4. Charlie

    Charlie TrainBoard Member

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    The car was on the rails but for some reason the wheel of the motor axle was not in contact with the rail. My only guess is that something with the suspension of the motor/axle assembly had gone very bad. This would be understandable considering the heavy usage the streetcar system went through during the war. This also was right around the time the system was to be taken over by the city so the CSL was not putting a lot of money into maintenance and the new municipal ownership management was anti-trolley and a wholesale slaughter of trolley lines took place being replaced by busses that could be purchased "off the shelf" and cheaply. Many of them were rolling junk by the end of their first year and were rolling death traps. Scores of modern PCC trolleys were pulled with less than ten years of service and either junked or sent to St.Louis Car Co to become part of the "modern" PCC technology "L" cars which they were building for CTA. Think of that.... brand new rapid transit cars built with second hand parts! Would you buy a new automobile with that sort of construction?

    Charlie
     
  5. Charlie

    Charlie TrainBoard Member

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    If anyone has questions about railroad operations,signalling,rules,special instructions,train handling etc etc., Please let me know and I'll see what sort of tutorial I can post .

    Charlie
     
  6. Keith

    Keith TrainBoard Supporter

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    Charlie,
    Don't know if you've covered horn usage or signal indications/type or not.
    Have a couple of questions regarding both.

    1. The meaning of the various horn/whistle signals used and what they mean.
    A new friend, met during train show back in December, was asking about it.
    She was wanting to know why engineer stayed on the horn so long when at
    a street crossing? I thought they were required to hold horn as locomotive crossed the street, something like a 15 second minimum??

    2. Been trying to find out, what the "P sign Mom found years ago, on Mullen Pass, in Montana means. Have another source state that it belongs to a Permissive Block signal.
    Maybe something explaining signal aspects and what they mean?
    And maybe a very brief explanation of certain signals,such as the Permissive, Lunar etc..??
    And whether dispatch contact is required before proceeding??
     
  7. Mr. Train

    Mr. Train TrainBoard Member

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    This is going to be a good class. Carry on teacher.
     
  8. Charlie

    Charlie TrainBoard Member

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    According to the General Code of Operating Rules(G.C.O.R) Seventh Edition, the following whistle signal rules apply. The dash indicates a long blast of the whistle, the "o" symbol is for a short blast of the whistle.

    Sound Indication
    (1) Succession
    of short
    sounds
    Use when persons or livestock are on the track at other than road crossings
    at grade. In addition, use to warn railroad employees when an emergency
    exists, such as a derailment. When crews on other trains hear this signal,
    they must stop until it is safe to proceed.
    (2) — When stopped: air brakes are applied, pressure equalized.
    (3) — — Release brakes. Proceed.
    (4) o o Acknowledgment of any signal not otherwise provided for.
    (5) o o o When stopped: back up. Acknowledgment of hand signal to back up.
    (6) o o o o Request for signal to be given or repeated if not understood.
    (7) — — o — When approaching public crossings at grade with the engine in front, sound
    signal as follows:
    A. At speeds in excess of 45 MPH, start signal at or about the crossing sign
    but not more than 1/4 mile before the crossing.
    B. At speeds of 45 MPH or less, start signal at least 15 seconds, but not
    more than 20 seconds, before entering the crossing.
    C. If no crossing sign start signal at least 15 seconds, but not more than 20
    seconds before entering crossing but not more than 1/4 mile before the
    crossing.
    D. If movement starts less than 1/4 mile from a crossing, signal may be
    sounded less than 15 seconds before the crossing when it is clearly
    seen traffic is not approaching the crossing, traffic is not stopped at the
    crossing or when crossing gates are fully lowered.
    Prolong or repeat signal until the engine completely occupies the crossing(s).
    (8) — o Approaching men or equipment on or near the track, regardless of any
    whistle prohibitions.
    After this initial warning, sound whistle signal (4) intermittently until the head
    end of train has passed the men or equipment.

    At one time there were a few more whistle signals but since the "abandonment" of waycar useage, the signals for setting out and recalling flagmen became superfluous.

    When one is a passenger trainman, when you hear whistle signal 1. you start to brace yourself because most likely the next sound you hear will be the airbrakes going into emergency. It is a whistle signal you don't want to hear or have to use.

    numbers 3, 4 and 7 were the ones I mostly dealt with. If you are into ham radio you will note that the whistle signal #7 is the same pattern as International Morse Code for the letter "Q".

    On the BNSF we also used number 7 when passing through work zones when workers are present rather than signal # 8. You also want to be observant that the track workers acknowledge the arrival of your train in their zone. You want to make sure they are all in the clear and that they acknowledge you with a wave or a highball signal. So when you see track laborers waving at the crew of a passing train, they are not necessarily wishing the crew a nice day, they are also indicating that they are safely out of the way and that they know the train is present.

    A lot of engineers will use signal #4 when hand signals are being used in order to acknowledge understanding of the signal that was just given.

    Regardless of any whistle prohibitions, you are empowered to take the safe course and blow the whistle if safety or life is threatened.

    What bothers me the most is watching my foamer videos of tourist or steam locomotive excursion trains and listening to the engineer(s) blow the whistle incessantly. Not only that but they don't even use the proper whistle signal or give all sorts of little toots and honks in addition to the necessary signal.If I ever sounded the locomotive horn in the fashion some of these "restoration" train crews do, I guarantee you I would have my Road Foreman asking me if I had a really valid reason for blowing the whistle so much. I greatly admire restoration groups and the work they do so that the rest of us can enjoy the museum pieces but other than Doyle McCormack and couple of others whose names escape me, and the Union Pacific guys,most of them have no real concept of "real" railroading. the 24/7/365 never know when you will work or be home again type of railroading. Those beautiful steam locomotives that they restore and operate are actual working machines built to perform hard work.Sadly some of their new owners treat them like personal toys. Enough of my rant, we'll deal with the other lessons later


    Charlie
     
  9. r_i_straw

    r_i_straw Mostly N Scale Staff Member

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    At the railroad museum in Rosenberg, if you wave, they many times will give a few real short beeps. Especially if there are a bunch of kids waving.
    [​IMG]
     
  10. Hytec

    Hytec TrainBoard Member

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    Good lesson, Charlie, thanks.

    The whistle sequence I miss the most is one I heard on the Roanoke, VA station platform in 1957. An eastbound N&W coal drag was just entering the station area at about 10 mph, led by two Y-6's (maybe A's, I don't remember), and a third pushing the caboose. As the lead locomotive approached me, its engineer blew two shorts (IIRC), followed almost immediately by two shorts from #2, then followed by two very faint shorts 5-6 seconds later. Remembering that sound travels at about 1,100 feet per second, I figured the pusher was over a mile away. What blew my mind was that the pusher appeared to be going 20-25 mph when it went by...fantastic acceleration power from those beasts. I'd never seen anything that BIG before!!!!!
     
  11. Keith

    Keith TrainBoard Supporter

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    Never occurred to me, to check my copy of the GCOR!!
    Friend gave me a copy a few years ago. Works for the UP in Denver.
    But, by asking, I think it helps those that don't have a copy of the
    Operating Rules.
    And there's probably nothing better, than hearing firsthand, from one that has to use and listen to these signals on a daily basis, on the job!

    Thanks Charlie, for the many stories!! Gives me an idea of how easy, and how difficult, the job can be!! Always wanted to work for the Railroad. These days though, I'd never make it, with my health situation!!
    Thanks again.
     
  12. Charlie

    Charlie TrainBoard Member

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    OK here we go.

    http://utu199.progressthroughunity.org/documents/Signals

    This one you'll have to display yourselves.

    I can't tell you what the "P" sign indicated. The only letters I knew were the "D" for Distant Signal and "G" for Grade. I never had to deal with that one since I never worked a mountain division. As for Distant Signals, during my time there were only two indications possible, " Distant Signal Approach and Distant Signal Clear.

    The only "permissive stop" that is used is found only on those with a number board. The Lunar aspect is a restricting signal indicating that a train may proceed at restricted speed until a more favorable aspect is received. Flashing red is also a Restricting signal with the same indication as I mentioned above. often times a restricting signal will be at the entrance to a siding or yard it is also used by the "weed weasels" when they are banner testing the crews. It is not necessary to contact a control operator or dispatcher to proceed past a "stop and proceed" signal, it is necessary that you operate your train at restricted speed. If you are at a "Stop" signal and you are not sure why you received that indication, then you will call the dispatcher for permission past that signal. If you cannot contact the dispatcher, then be prepared to watch the weeds grow up through the cab before you ever make a move. When you do receive permission past a "Stop" signal, proceed at restricted speed and be exceptionally cautious because just out of sight at that reverse curve up ahead there will be a safety orange banner standing in the gauge. You will need to stop your train before you touch that banner. If there is no banner, there is sure to be the rear end of a stopped train. You do not want to touch that train either!

    La Crosse WI is the only place I've ever encountered the "Approach Restricting" signal it was right at the entrance to the yard. There was a hand throw switch there that lined you either to the WB man or the yard lead. About half the time it was lined against you. It would be lined for you only if the yardmaster liked your crew or someone on your crew. Then he would tell a switchman or whoever to line the switch for your train.

    I did see an "Approach Limited"signal a couple of times(red over flashing green). It is at Lisle IL. The company install a pair of high speed crossovers there mostly due to the heavy commuter train useage. It helped to keep the dinkies moving freely and smoothly. Those X-overs were nice too!

    In answer to the "how long do you hold the last blast of the whistle for a grade crossing" question, you hold it until your lead loco has moved past that road. If a motorist cant figure out that a train is occupying the space ahead of him, that becomes his problem.

    It is imperative that signal indications be followed precisely. Failure to properly observe and obey signals can lead to injury and death. That has been illustrated quite well in recent history.
    Signals are your friend not your enemy. Just don't let them lull you into a false feeling of security. Just because you have been running on "approach medium" indications for the last half hour due to there being a train ahead of you doesn't mean that the next signal will be the same. That train may have gone into emergency and the next signal you see might be "stop". You'd best be prepared to stop before reaching that signal.It does happen!

    Charlie
     
  13. BoxcabE50

    BoxcabE50 HOn30 & N Scales Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    This might pre-date the GCOR. You may need to find a CCOR.
     
  14. hoyden

    hoyden TrainBoard Supporter

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    Charlie,

    Thank you for the signal chart. I have seen the "Approach Restricting" indication in Minneapolis at CP Stadium on the BNSF Wayzata line approaching Minneapolis Junction. Now I know what it means.

    You can read a chilling narrative of "bad things happen by not complying with restricted speed" where a Conrail train operating in dense fog collides with another train. When fog reduced visibility to less than 200' then then engineer had only a second or two to see a signal when traveling at 55 mph.

    The report provides a thorough description of the various signal indications and the required response.

    http://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/AccidentReports/Reports/RAR0101.pdf
     
  15. Charlie

    Charlie TrainBoard Member

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    @hoyden,

    We got a similar "horror film" in conductor school at N.A.R.S. It was a head-on somewhere out west(Montana? Wyoming? CRS which) both crews killed. one survivor, a hobo hitching a ride on one of the trains. In the film they were questioning him but he was quite incoherent. It was a graphic way to show the importance of copying,understanding and repeating track warrants especially in dark territory.

    Charlie
     
  16. BoxcabE50

    BoxcabE50 HOn30 & N Scales Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    There was an ugly head on out here, some years back, in which I believe there had been at least some fault of the dispatcher. Who was overseeing a section of railroad they'd never even seen in person.
     
  17. Charlie

    Charlie TrainBoard Member

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    I think that's the one Boxcab! I personally put the blame on both the crew and the DS. The radio conversation was recorded. The DS gave the proper limits of the track warrant. The crew repeated the INCORRECT limits of the warrant. The DS gave the final OK to the wrong limits and mayhem ensued. The reason I put culpability on the crew is that history shows that particular train was given track warrants for the same piece of track most of the time. The dispatcher issued limits different from what was the norm for that train. While it is against the rules to "pre-fill" the blanks on track warrants, It has been know that crews will do that. I believe that crew filled out the track warrant with their usual limits and repeated those limits.albeit the wrong limits, to the DS who then OK'd them. There is no way of knowing that since both crews were killed in the crash. We were told that the female DS spent some time in the "rubber room". due to that incident. Inattention,shoddy bookkeeping,stressed out DS, a recipe for a perfect storm.

    Charlie
     
  18. BoxcabE50

    BoxcabE50 HOn30 & N Scales Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    That must be the one, as it was a female dispatcher. (No. I am not speaking against female dispatching. Just noting this to help identify the specific incident.) I've known a few dispatchers- MILW, NP, GN, BN and others. I recall talking with several after this wreck. One thing every one of them told me was that in their times, ALL new dispatchers, or those changing territory, had to spend time on the road with trains crews they be working with, to familiarize. They told me in this instance, that had not happened. I don't recall how experienced she was for the job or territory, but I can only wonder if some time out there would have helped save lives.
     
  19. FranzF

    FranzF New Member

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    Thanks for the stories folks! Definitely worth the visit. Finally found a reason to look up RR jargon. Cheers!
     
  20. Charlie

    Charlie TrainBoard Member

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    You're quite welcome Franz!

    Charlie
     

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