1. Inkaneer

    Inkaneer TrainBoard Member

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    What you say is true but at some point the model rr company has to make a decision on whether they are going to be continually played by these subcontractors or are they going to cut ties and go elsewhere. Cutting ties does not have to be sudden but it has been done suddenly before in this industry. We still have products that were made in Italy, Yugoslavia, Japan, etc. Maybe going to the Philippines or India or even back to the good ole USA might shakeup the subcontractors. If not, at least we will have moved production out of China with all the extra baggage that brings.
     
  2. NorsemanJack

    NorsemanJack TrainBoard Member

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    I just checked my inventory spreadsheet. Since November 2004, I have bought 148 line items (cars, locos, passenger sets), and 100% have been Kato or Micro-trains. My track is all now UniTrack. My track power is Kato (packs and soundboxes). I no longer do anything with DCC. I believe this has isolated me from much of what some of you are struggling with. Kato prices have stayed flat while quality/accuracy has improved. Micro-trains keep costing more, but the secondary market is loaded and there are many values to be found.

    Not sure I have any key point here, just sayin..... :)
     
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  3. traingeekboy

    traingeekboy TrainBoard Member

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    Exactly what caboose were you looking for?
     
  4. Trains

    Trains TrainBoard Member

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    Bluford Shop Missouri Pacific transfer caboose.
    I worked for Mopac till UP took over.
    Worked on a lot of those cabooses.
    Don
     
  5. traingeekboy

    traingeekboy TrainBoard Member

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    Well that makes sense. Bluford is a smaller company and they do models of things that are less common both in reality and on layouts. Even on that auction site they do not come down in value.

    But, if you really want one, there's one real cheap on that auction site, but you will have to repaint and decal it for your road. Still at 10 bucks it's a way to get around the high price tag. :)

    I feel your pain when it comes to wanting something unique. Mods, this is not an ad, rather it is an anti ad because I would not advise anyone to go this broke:

    http://www.eurotrainhobby.com/acme-7-unit-electric-railcar-etr-301-se/p12444c416

    I rode that as a kid in the 70's. Right in the front window too. Can I have one for my layout, nope. :D
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2018
  6. Trains

    Trains TrainBoard Member

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    Thanks! but I'm not into paint and decals.
    Don
     
  7. Metro Red Line

    Metro Red Line TrainBoard Member

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    The thing is, model manufacturing methods are a little more advanced than they were in the '60s and '70s. It's not just plastic tooling and die machinery, but computers as well. So, many places that used to manufacture trains don't have access to that modern manufacturing infrastructure (and it would require a large capital expense to implement/update it), but many factories in China already do, and that's why you see a lot of models made there.
     
  8. mtntrainman

    mtntrainman TrainBoard Supporter

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    I buy what I can...used from guys I know. I wont buy a 'pig-in-a-poke' off any auction site. Have found a few good deals on clearance stuf from various etailers. Not a lot left I need. I WON'T pereorder anything...ever. I wont pay 'highway robbery' prices for anything ! I feel for the guys just starting out in the 'hobby'. JMO :-(
     
  9. Inkaneer

    Inkaneer TrainBoard Member

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    But plastic injection manufacturing is everywhere today not just centered in China. Google 'plastic injection' and look at companies looking for business. Some even offer lifetime mold guarantees.
     
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  10. Point353

    Point353 TrainBoard Member

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    After the Sanda-Kan shake-up, Märklin moved their manufacturing work that had been done in China to Hungary.
     
  11. wombat457

    wombat457 TrainBoard Member

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    And Atlas dumped their Chinese manufacturer because they wanted a dollar or so more and went to South Africa where it didn't cost them as much BUT they (Atlas) still put THEIR prices up.
     
  12. Trains

    Trains TrainBoard Member

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    Just don't make since, raise your prices way up and have the stuff set on the shelf instead of selling it.
    But I'm not in the business so I don't know how they think! Maybe it's a big tax right off for them?
    Don
     
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  13. Joe Lovett

    Joe Lovett TrainBoard Member

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    During the 70's you could buy blue box railcars for $2.95 each and $20 to $30 for a locomotive. I received five dollars a week for allowance and purchased a bunch of railcars over a couple of years. Can't do that anymore. I'm surprised MicroTrains aren't more expensive than they are considering the amount of hand work they go through.

    Joe
     
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  14. wombat457

    wombat457 TrainBoard Member

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    The price of things now a days might explain why there are more people going to train shows as well - looking for better prices.

    I'm with Trains on his point too - some companies push their prices to the point where their stock sits on the shelf gathering dust in a warehouse or in a LHS. The LHS doesn't really care as they can send unsold goods back. The company though, thy're stuck with it until they decide to have a "sale" and then hope their older stock sells.

    My philosophy is pretty simple ... sell a product (any product) for a reasonable price, make a reasonable profit doing so, gain a stable customer base and have that product going out the door regularly.
     
  15. Joe D'Amato

    Joe D'Amato TrainBoard Member

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    As a manufacturer I can say I am not aware of anyone, except possibly China, intentionally driving up prices. We don't charge what the market will bear but charge based on the rising cost of materials, labor, processes and the degree of difficulty in executing and assembling the product. If we were going to charge what the market could bear we could have raised the retail price of our new Z scale Business car to match the prices being charged by our competitor and made a cool $20.00 extra on each sale above our margin. Honestly this is an ongoing debate like many in this country that can not be solved with a simple answer. I don't believe there is anything sinister in the retail cost to consumers. I think many of our retailers actually charge less than the MSRP which cuts into their margins. Manufacturers do the same...plenty of time we go less than our margin because we know the final price will be too much for the market. The cool thing about working here is having a working factory and allowing folks to tour the place. I've gotten folks walk through here who have been some of our biggest critics walk out the back door a new person. Once you see what it takes for any of us to make your cars and engines I think you get the expense of it all.
     
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  16. BoxcabE50

    BoxcabE50 HOn30 & N Scales Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    Joe-

    As a person with (small) business managerial and ownership background, (multiple of both titles), I understand what you are saying.

    The disconnect here is that people of fixed income lose ability to participate, as the costs increase for them. Many, many others have incomes which simply are not keeping pace- especially considering all real necessities expenses are also steadily rising. At every turn, some of these folks are knocked off the playing field. Either way, a loss to both you and the hobby itself. Even if they are replaced, (by someone of "better" financial means), minus one, plus one is still a zero sum gain. It means that you, the hobby and participants are getting nowhere.

    The ultimate target here needs to be steady increasing of sales and therefore also size/participation in the hobby. Driving growth of the hobby needs to be a goal. Not stagnation- which too many here are perceiving this situation to be true, if not shrinking. All due to their personal spending abilities not keeping up with the industry.
     
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  17. SP 9811

    SP 9811 TrainBoard Member

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  18. JMaurer1

    JMaurer1 TrainBoard Member

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    Bachmann is a bad example. I don't know where they get their prices, but they are CRAZY STUPID even if their cars were state of the art 100% scale and super detailed. How do they even stay in business?
     
  19. umtrr-author

    umtrr-author TrainBoard Member

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    Bachmann's MSRPs are in fantasy land. I've heard from a semi-reliable source that their distributor discounts can be as high as 80 percent. That allows for plenty of percent off from some retailers, mostly online.

    However... many retailers don't discount from the MSRP that Bachmann posts. I've certainly seen that enough as I walk right on by tables at train shows and shelves in stores.

    Meanwhile, as a more general comment, in addition to the inflation factor, there are a number of items in the "market basket" for which the costs have risen much faster than inflation. I won't start any trouble by naming any... :(
     
  20. Point353

    Point353 TrainBoard Member

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    Is your gripe with the prices set by the manufacturers or with some dealer who won't discount his merchandise to a level that suits you?
     

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