My amateur improvements on a Bachmann 0-4-0 dockside

critinchiken Mar 12, 2017

  1. bremner

    bremner Staff Member

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    This is an impressive build!
     
  2. critinchiken

    critinchiken TrainBoard Member

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    Awesome reply! This will help anyone else looking to do the same thing, and I'm happy someone with more experience can come here to confirm that the noise is in fact from the gearhead... Thanks friend!
     
  3. critinchiken

    critinchiken TrainBoard Member

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    Hi there! Thanks for taking notice to my build. After reconsideration I will be skipping the lighting part of this project for now. For one, with all the new brass details added to the shell, the boiler weight is now VERY tight due to fractions of a fraction of tiny brass sticking every so slightly inside the shell. In order for me to fit a light in the front, I'd have to shave away even more of the weight. Something this little steamer lacks in the first place, and for now I'd like to have all the pulling power I can.

    As to your questions, the bell and whistle came from Bachmann's parts store. I'm not even sure which locomotives they were for, but it shouldn't be too hard to find. The worm had to be pulled from the other motor. I bought a tool from NWSL to pull the worm, and I used a lighter to heat the worm making it easier to pull off.

    As tracktoo pointed out, the gears are mod .3, so I would think that as long as you know the O.D. of the gear, it's length, and it's bore (1.5mm for me), then finding a good new gear in NWSL is possible. Best of luck, and report back!

    EDIT: Just checked my order history and the bell and whistle came from Bachmann's n-scale 2-8-0. and here is where I got the puller so I could re-use the worm from the original motor;

    https://nebula.wsimg.com/8b3d4d5a1a...EE66B97B387F20C0D&disposition=0&alloworigin=1

    Also looking at the puller's pin, it seems I had to file the diameter a bit so it would slip inside the worm's bore and not bind.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2017
  4. critinchiken

    critinchiken TrainBoard Member

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    Thanks friend! The blizzard that wasn't (at least not in Baltimore) didn't give me the free time I thought I'd have, but I still have a ways to go. More to come!!
     
  5. Detroit

    Detroit New Member

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    Hello,

    Thanks for the quick and detailed reply.
    I remembered after posting that yes, there was a bit of filing (and maybe a little hacksaw-ing) to make some room for the headlight cables and to free up some extra space for the decoder. I'm only intending it to shunt small numbers at this point in time so I was willing to sacrifice a little weight for the added detail.
    I only have half the build photos as I got excited and put it together before remembering to take the last of them. Next time it comes apart I will try to remember to take and post photos somewhere.

    Thanks,
    Detroit.
     
  6. critinchiken

    critinchiken TrainBoard Member

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    A small update and sitting on a decision. So I got the old reefer doors cut and trimmed out, and the new doors in place, but I have to be honest with myself, I'm not sure I like it. I'm going to go through with paint and see how I like it, but I may end up scrapping it and going in a different direction. It just doesn't feel right to me yet.

    Just incase, I ordered a Kato caboose that may make a nice stand-in for an I-10 that was acquired from the Buffalo, Rochester & Pittsburgh in 1932 (I think). This was a suggestion from randgust over on nscale.net, it has the advantage of all-wheel pick up built in for lighting. Then again, I have a ton of B&O box cars that I could just modify for all-wheel pick up and use it for the increase electrical footprint. What would you guys do? Tell me what you think and perhaps the plan will change. At any rate, here's some pictures of the progress.

    Here I started cutting out the old reefer doors

    Here are the doors cut out, the cuts filed down and the excess molded details shaved off with the new door in the ready position

    New doors glued in place

    Back to Little Joe, I couldn't take the molded B&O herald on the firebox door any longer so I shaved it off and glued on a brass herald. The old one stuck out so far that it could have been a second light housing, and the brass herald has a nice low profile. It's amazing to me that they were ably to cut brass so fine. Here are the shots.

    That's what I have so far, still to come I have to get a new catwalk on the hack and add a micro trains coupler box where the old tender-steamer connection was. That should be fun to drill and tap, the tender base is metal. I'll lay down a primer coat on the hack shell as well as Little Joe's shell and then paint. The B&O were pretty good about keeping their equipment clean so I'll only do some light weathering on the 0-4-0, but the hack will be filthy and somewhat rotted to represent something the crew appropriated for sheer convenience!

    For your consideration, here's a shot of the restored BR&P 283 I-10

    B&O C2647 I-10 acquired from the BR&P

    And a Kato caboose

    Homemade hack, box car, or caboose... post your thoughts! Here's one last shot for consideration
    Thanks guys!
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2017
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  7. brokemoto

    brokemoto TrainBoard Member

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    You could pass off the Kato as a steel version of the BR&P wood caboose. I suspect that more than a few B&O modellers used the so-called "Northeast" steel caboose as a steel version of the B&O four window wood caboose.

    When I bought an Old and Weary FT set and 4-8-2, I put the herald and a number on a Kato caboose. At some point, I will have to bash some MDC/Athearn wood cars into a coach and baggage. The MT HW RPO likely could pass for the ex-NYCS steel RPOs that the Old and Weary had.

    You might want to add some windows the the brakemen's crummy and be sure to put back the roofwalk. Other than that, it looks pretty good. Nice work on the added piping and herald to the locomotive.

    I wonder if that motor would fit into the Rivarossi 0-4-0 and tender that Atlas sold. You would be aware, of course, that said 0-4-0 and tender is based on the result of two conversions of the 0-4-0T to "conventional" configuration and coal (#96 and #99--the railroad left #97 and #98 as oil burners and tank locomotives). I would be necessary either to make that tender all wheels live or substitute a B-mann SPECTRUM slopeback, which may be too large. I have not compared the two. I suppose that it could be cut down. Another possibility might be to see if B-mann has available separately the tender from the ALCo mogul and put the Atlas slopeback shell on it, if the two are that much smaller. The B-mann resembles a Pennsylvania slopeback. I do not know where B&O got the tenders for the two conversions. I would guess from scrapped switchers. As B&O did these conversions in the 1920s, they could have come from switchers in service during the period that the Pennsylvania controlled the B&O (very late nineteenth to very early twentieth centuries).

    Another possibility for increasing the electrical footprint might be an extra water tank. I do not know if the B&O used water bottles on this particular locomotive. I would guess that if it ran out of water, they could hook up a hose to a fire plug on Pratt St. or the docks.
     
  8. critinchiken

    critinchiken TrainBoard Member

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    Just a short update while the primer is drying on the hack and Little Joe's shell. I'm here to confirm this post by tracktoo... you are The Man!!
    Here is where to get replacement gears for Bachmann's N-scale item no. 51-526-12 Docksider 0-4-0 switcher (quote from box):
    http://estore.bachmanntrains.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=66_70_110&products_id=9813

    The gears came in today thanks to fast shipping from Bachmann, so I got to work on them as soon as I could. This is what they look like shipped.

    An old gear (white) vs a new gear (black)

    And here they are installed on a spare frame

    I also checked them with a micrometer here is what I found;
    bore: both are 1.59mm
    gear shaft OD: new 2.92mm old 2.99mm
    gear width: new 4.83mm old 4.93mm
    Gear OD new 6.46mm old 6.63mm
    Both are 15t .3mod

    I tore apart my work once again to replace the new gears, do a quick lube, quarter once more, and perform a test run. Everything working well with the exception of a little bit of hunting while going forward. Strangely enough perfectly smooth in reverse, but as fast as I reassembled it, I'm sure it's nothing more than being slightly out of quarter or out of gauge.

    All credit to tracktoo for the heads up on new gears. Thanks man!!
     
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  9. brokemoto

    brokemoto TrainBoard Member

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    I compared the stock Rivarossi tender on the Atlas 0-4-0 to the B-mann SPECTRUM. They are pretty close, so the swap could be made without damaging the appearance.

    Most of the pickup on that locomotive is from the tender, even though it is only half wheels live. The locomotive does have wipers on the drivers, but as one pair has traction tyres, that leaves only one pair with consistent contact (or at least as "consistent" as you can get from 1960s/1970s construction methods.
     
  10. tracktoo

    tracktoo TrainBoard Supporter

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    As a tank engine should that even have a tender attached?

    EDIT: I think I see that the tender was not planned for this unit but for the non-tank version released by several manufacturers through the years, Bachmann being the latest, I think. I do believe they are basically the same core design in gear layout, motor positioning, wheels and valve gear, and the metal sideplates for the wheel mounts. In resurrecting the older Bachmann units I have I was considering a pretty extensive redo of the gear train, a brass center chassis, and floating front axle (compensation) for axle pickup. And the more I looked at it the more I realized it would be basically a new engine except for the wheels and body. That led me to think I should consider a complete new design, ground up and that's why it's on the back burner. The chassis stuff I've already been developing has my time pretty well consumed for now. Neat stuff there, though.:cool:
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2017
  11. bremner

    bremner Staff Member

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    I have seen it done, but typically no
     
  12. brokemoto

    brokemoto TrainBoard Member

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    Unless the B&O used an extra water tank with it, probably not. B&O bought four of these things just before the outbreak of the First World War to work Pratt St. and the docks of Baltimore's Inner Harbour. That was close enough to Camden Yards for them to find water, I would suspect. They were oil burners. Baltimore had some pretty strict smoke abatement laws. Back then, you could get the smoke abatement boys off your case by running oil burners (hence Western Maryland's three or four oil-burning Pacifics).

    Some time in the 1920s, B&O converted two of these things to coal, took off the tanks and added a tender. The Rivarossi 0-4-0 that Atlas sold in the late 1960s and into the 1970s is based on this "proto-bash". My questions about the motor and tender were more about this model than the model that the Original Poster is upgrading. I was wondering aloud if the motor that Original Poster was using would fit into the Rivarossi/Atlas model. I was thinking aloud further that if you upgrade the motor, you would want to upgrade the tender. I was curious to see if it would be possible to substitute the B-mann SPECTRUM for the RR. A size comparison demonstrated that they were not that far off each other.

    Some tank engines did use water bottles, but it was more those intended for road use (such as on commuter trains-Boston and Albany, Reading Company, SP) than switchers.
     
  13. critinchiken

    critinchiken TrainBoard Member

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    Good point about the Kato being steel and not wood, and that's a bust in my book. With the poor molded detail on the shell and my very limited skill in detailing, this model won't be as nice as today's Spectrum models. Still I'd like to do the best I can, and I don't think I manage turning a steel model into a wood model. Having said that, I still continue to work on the hack (waiting on some windows to ship) and as a second choice should I decide that I don't like the hack, I'll modify a box car for all wheel pickup which shouldn't be to hard at all.

    I don't have a Rivarossi/Atlas 0-4-0, but due to size I doubt it's much different in design compared to the Bachmann in that the boiler is the weight, meaning no shell around it. My hesitation to say it could work is due to the fact that I had to mill away some of the weight so it would fit over the motor/gearhead.
     
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  14. critinchiken

    critinchiken TrainBoard Member

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    Time for another update! I did some light sanding and filled in some holes that were bothering me with superglue and headed to the paint booth.

    As you can see by the 'arrow' that particular hole wasn't corrected, but that's why we do primer. Primer will highlight your mistakes, a useful tool to correct things before good paint. I filled the hole, sanded a few minor items, and hit it one more time with a second light coat of primer. Still not perfect, but better, and with some weathering, some of the flaws will look intentional.

    With the primer drying, I turned my attention to the missing coupler on the tender base. By now I've done a few of these, and while a bit tedious, it isn't hard with the right tools. Using my micrometer I found the center of the hole, and lightly scratched it on the base. Next I followed the instructions supplied with Micro Trains drill and tap kit using a pin vice to drill the new hole with a dab of oil on the bit. I then followed that up with the supplied tap and another dab of oil, after which I made sure the tiny screw went in with ease.

    I noticed once I tore apart and reassembled the tender to make use of the base, that the truck that carried the tender connection was sloppy and made that side of the base sit closer to the rails. This issue is easily fixed by cutting the old connection into a 'washer' (see the red arrows) to shim the trucks back where they were out of the box.

    After that it was just a matter of putting the trucks back on to make sure they spin freely and clear the new MT coupler box.

    Hopefully tomorrow I'll have time to get a coat of Engine Black on the shell and perhaps a little hand painting. Along with the windows for the hack, I also ordered a decal set for B&O steam engines. I'm I bit disappointed that I can't find any decals in white lettering but unless one of you fine gentlemen can point me to the right website, gold lettering will have to do. There is NO WAY my jittery hands could do that kind of fine lettering!

    More to come, thanks again!
     
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  15. critinchiken

    critinchiken TrainBoard Member

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    The boss was sleeping in this morning due to a 80's tribute band girl's night out. I shudder to think what goes on during these events and never ask... I don't wanna know! Anyhow, running the compressor for my airbrush was out of the question. I'm too cheap to but a real airbrush compressor, opting instead for an inexpensive Home Depot sale-item compressor that'll fill my tires if need be. It might have been $30-40 I think, wasn't much. Sure it's noisy and I can't tell you how many times I've jumped out of my skin being deep into a paint job when the compressor kicked in, but with a moisture separator and a regulator, it gets the job done. Moving on...

    Digging through my spare parts bottle, I found something interesting. A set of steps from who knows what, that looks much more prototypical. I lined it up with the front 'bumper' over the coupler box and sure enough a nice fit. I drilled some holes to mount the new steps.

    Looking at pictures of the prototype I noticed the front bumper is rounded on the end with 'dimples', so after cutting off the old steps (saving them for possible later use) I took a file to the ends to round them out some. I used an 1/8" drill bit to create the dimples by first heating the drill bit with a lighter and then pressing in into the corner and giving it a quick twist, sanding it down to clean it up.

    Rinse and repeat with the other side. Noticed I didn't get them quite even, but I'll live with it for now.

    Here are the new steps glues in place.

    And one last bit of detail as the glues dries. If the excess glue doesn't dry up flat and I can't get it sanded down enough, I'll weather it for the appearance of grime.

    That'll do it for today, I'm headed out for a crab feast. If I get home tomorrow at a decent time, I'll lay down a coat of engine black on the shell, but I have to get my taxes done tomorrow night. Either way I'll check back in at some point. More to come!
     
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  16. Hoghead2

    Hoghead2 TrainBoard Member

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    I'm loving this thread.
     
  17. critinchiken

    critinchiken TrainBoard Member

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    Many Thanks friend!!

    Got home a bit early today, hit the shower, then hit the paint booth. Windows for the hack showed up in the mail along with new decals for Little Joe, so once I get back from getting my taxes done I'll be working on one or the other. In the mean time, here are some fresh shots from the paint booth!
     
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  18. critinchiken

    critinchiken TrainBoard Member

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    Lots of progress in the past 24 hours so lets get started.

    Windows for the hack showed up at the door the other day, and I got those done this afternoon. First I got out my micrometer and found/marked the center for all four windows, 2 on each side.

    I used an 1/8" drill bit to get the holes opened up, afterwards using a square jewelers file to get the openings to the right shape and size.

    Rinse and repeat on all four window openings, followed by using a mild sanding stick to clean off the paint. Not sure why I painted the hack before the windows were in, and I knew better, but whatever. I then glued the windows in place and set aside to dry.

    Looking at the hack, I started to imagine how hard it would be to get inside this thing with the doors being so high, and I started brain-storming on what to do about it. Then it hit me, use the spare ladders from the brass steam locomotive detail kit! I bent up the handrails to fit around the door, and drilled some holes for the ladders to mount.

    I want a nice beat-up look to the hack so I scuffed up all four sides as well as the roof by gently rubbing with a rough sanding stick. Not sure it can be seen unless you're right on top of it, but I also used the very edge of a hobby knife to make some very tiny gouges in the side of the wood as well. I finished up by adding some 'rot' to the bottom edges in random spots with an assortment of jewelers files.

    Now comes the scary part! (For me anyhow!) It's time to get some weathering done on Little Joe! Having never weathered a locomotive, let alone a steam locomotive, I spent hours researching how people do this without ruining a perfectly good toy. Some of this was common sense, and some things were learned from the research. The rest I had to put some thought into as no two jobs are the same. I started out by wrapping some painters tape around the worm gear. I would think that with good lube paint shouldn't stick, but I still didn't want to take any chances.

    Knowing I didn't want the chore of removing paint from the drivers for electrical contact, I found a product last week (it showed up with the windows) that would suit my needs. A 2mm wide liquid paint mask pen.

    It was easy to use, and dried fast, but not too fast. I also mounted a spare boiler weight so that I could grab with a clothes pin as a handle while painting, and doubling as a nice rest when I sit it down so that it won't roll over and ruin the new paint job. Here you can see the result of the masking pen, the painters tape around the worm gear, and my 'handle'.

    Once in the paint booth I hooked up power to the 30ga. leads and set the drivers turning for an even coat of paint. I used the same paint from the night before when I did the boiler shell. This will be the only airbrushing the drivers will see... I'm not gonna push my luck! I decided to kill two birds with one stone and give the tender base for the hack a quick spray with the same color as well. The trucks were removed, those will be painted by hand. No pictures of this work, kinda self explanatory. For those interested I mixed 1 part Polly Scale steam power black to 3 parts distilled water, with about 3 drops of acrylic thinner. Again, I used this paint for the boiler shell, the drivers, and the tender base for the hack. I also sealed everything with a lisht misting of Testors dull coat.

    With the paint dry (a thin coat from the airbrush dries almost as it hits the work) it was time to remove the mask from the drivers. I used a wooden tooth pick and it pealed away easily leaving perfectly clean drivers. I did use a superfine microbrush soaked in rubbing alcohol to rub down the drivers as an extra precaution.

    With a nice base of steam power black on the drivers, it was time for some rust and grime. I lightly dry-brushed on railroad tie brown, roof brown, and some rust. To soften the edges of the paint strokes I brushed on two different shades of brown weathering powder. The couplers were painted railroad tie brown,

    Now for my hack, and I'm pretty excited about this which has lead me to conclude that I'll be using the hack for the decoder housing! No air brush job for the hack, I didn't care about a few brush strokes, this thing needs to look abused. I first layed down a thin base of railroad tie brown, followed by dry-brushing roof brown on all sides. I then used the very same paint from airbrushing the boiler shell as a wash by first dipping a wide brush in paint and then in water. I went back and forth from roof brown to railroad tie brown and yet another wash until I found the right coverage. I added some tiny highlights of Polly Scale Dirt with the smallest brush I had, just to get a good mix of colors on the wood. I used 'full strength' (no added water) boiler shell paint for the windows, doors, edges, ladders, and bottom 'rot'. At this point I it finished the job with a light brown weathering powder to soften the paint strokes. Here are the results.

    That's it for today! Up next will be decals for Little Joe sealed with dull coat, then a light weathering the boiler shell, and routing the wires for final assembly. As a note, last time I posted about decals I complained that I couldn't find B&O decals in white. Well... I've been staring at this JnJ Trains Wagontop caboose kit I have for some time now, and decided it will be my next project. I got online to look up a decal kit and what do ya know... white B&O decals. So I placed an order and we shall see what we have to work with. I for one am hopeful! For you enjoyment, here are some shots of Little Joe's shell under some better lighting.

    Once again, thanks all. See ya soon!
     
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  19. tracktoo

    tracktoo TrainBoard Supporter

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    Coming together NICE! :cool:
     
  20. critinchiken

    critinchiken TrainBoard Member

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    Thanks man! I have to say that this project has been a little hard, but not nearly as hard as it was in my mind before I started.


    As you can see, I set up my work bench (AKA computer desk) for decals. I haven't work with these things for probably 30 years now so I made sure to read up on decal tips before I started. Looking back it's no wonder I had such a hard time with this as a kid, I was surely doing it all wrong. But then again we didn't have the internet to guide us either.

    Seems there are two ways of placing decals, one is by using Micro Set and the other being water. Micro Set yields better results but you only have about 20 seconds to get the decal in the right spot before it's too late. For obvious reasons (rookie) I went with water. I started out by cutting out the decals I intended to use, making sure to have enough of the decal backing paper to grab with reverse tweezers with out pinching the decal itself. With a shallow bowl of warm water on the side, I first wet the area the decal will be placed with paint brush and then soaked the decal, counting out 25 seconds. I then slid the decal off the backing paper and on to the model with a wet fine tip paint brush and carefully positioned. Positioning with the paint brush was difficult, it was all to easy to move the decal in the wrong spot with only the slightest touch, and all this while working under the magnifying glass and wearing glasses. Once I was satisfied with it's position, I used some toilet tissue to lightly dab around the decal with out touching the decal itself, soaking up the excess water and allow it to dry faster.

    With the '9' looking dry, I started on the '8' only to find that soon as water touched the '9' it loosened right up and moved with the slightest touch once again. No big deal as I was still able to place the '8' and position both with minimal extra effort. A blunted tooth pick made positioning easier this time around. Next time I will wait (just like the internet tips said) to place the '8' before the '9' is set and dry.

    Next up is the 'BALTIMORE & OHIO' decal. Although I was able to get white decals by using Micro Scale's caboose sheet, my options were once again limited. First off, with all the numbers on this sheet, nowhere was there a '98' I could cut out as one decal and make life easier... waddayagonnado! Then there's the choices of 'BALTIMORE & OHIO' and 'B&O' (see big 'B', little '&', big 'O') but no 'BALTIMORE AND OHIO' nor 'B&O' (all big). I went with this;

    Once the water (that I could see) had dried up, I lightly brushed on Micro Sol and set the shell off on the side to dry as I cleaned up. After seeing the '9' lift as I tried to set the '8' next to it, I won't even think of doing the other side until tomorrow. Sunday will be the next chance I have to seal in dull coat and get some weathering done. After that it's just a matter of routing the wires to the hack and getting the decoder done. Speaking of which, I've been putting in some thought on the DZ125, and now I'm starting to think bigger... TCS sound and keep alives??? Maybe! One thing I still need to consider is the added weight having a dramatic impact on pulling capacity.

    Until next time, see ya soon, and as always... Thanks!
     
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