Infos on UP 12 wheels tender

minesweeper Sep 17, 2018

  1. minesweeper

    minesweeper TrainBoard Member

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    Guys,
    I got this tender to scratchbuild a MOV car supporting the department with water and fuel oil for different purposes.
    I ama however not familiar with the prototype and would need the following information for correct marking and use:
    The denomination of the tender
    Weight empty
    Water capacity
    Oil capacity
    Weight fully loaded

    I do not think there are speed limits concerns as the MOV will be running fairly slower and i expect the mother locomotive to run at least 60mph.

    Thanks very much[​IMG]

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  2. minesweeper

    minesweeper TrainBoard Member

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    Or where to look for this information

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  3. Hardcoaler

    Hardcoaler TrainBoard Member

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  4. Mr. Trainiac

    Mr. Trainiac TrainBoard Member

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    Do you know what model this tender came off of? Does it have a manufacturer logo on the bottom? That may help, since you would be able to work backward from the locomotive type.
     
  5. minesweeper

    minesweeper TrainBoard Member

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    Unfortunately not, i got that on ebay and the listing just said UP oil tender.
     
  6. minesweeper

    minesweeper TrainBoard Member

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    Looks like a C-12 12.000 gallon tender like the one in this picture (found on hardcoaler suggested website)
    However mine is flat on top, and I double checked the listin on ebay: no brand no model
     

    Attached Files:

  7. RailMix

    RailMix TrainBoard Member

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    I don't know much about the Western roads either, but manufacturers put all kinds of road names on stuff. I think it's what was known as a semi-Vanderbilt tender. It actually looks a lot like this old bowser die cast metal kit for a Southern Pacific tender.

    https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/ho-scale-bowser-sp-southern-pacific-1747637592

    Looks like it may have been the type used on SP P13 Pacifics. Perhaps someone more familiar with SP steam power can help.
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2018
  8. minesweeper

    minesweeper TrainBoard Member

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  9. Mr. Trainiac

    Mr. Trainiac TrainBoard Member

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    That's what I was worried about. Some companies used the wrong tenders or locomotive shells to save tooling money. This was more common on older models. Today's higher-end detail-oriented ones don't have this problem. Based on the fact that you have pulled up 2 SP tenders that look like this, I would guess this model has the wrong paint scheme and it is an SP and not a UP tender.
     
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  10. minesweeper

    minesweeper TrainBoard Member

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    Folks,
    I have to eventually replace rthe plastic wheels with metal ones.
    I measured the diameter that is a little over 10mm: how does it translate to wheel diameter in inches?

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  11. r_i_straw

    r_i_straw Mostly N Scale Staff Member

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    [​IMG] Looks like what Bachmann hung on the back of a lot of their locomotives. A Southern Pacific prototype.
     
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  12. Hytec

    Hytec TrainBoard Member

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    First, there 25.4 mm to the inch. Therefore 10 mm is 0.39 inches. Second, you multiply 0.39 by 87, assuming the tender is an HO model. Therefore the scale wheels would 33.9 inches.

    This an odd dimension. Did you measure the outside of the flange, or the outside of the tire? Wheels are usually measured as the outside of the tire. Though you did say "a little over". So it might be a 34" wheel, again assuming you measured the tire diameter.
     
  13. minesweeper

    minesweeper TrainBoard Member

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    I just measured a 9mm diameter on a 33" wheel (40' flatcar tichy kit), may these be a 36" since 3inches equal to about 75mm that is little less than 1mm in HO scale?
    I tried on the kadee website and could not find a 34" wheel, they have 33 and 36.
     
  14. RailMix

    RailMix TrainBoard Member

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    33" and 36" are pretty much standard. Maybe someone here knows which were used on tenders of this type. Actually, the difference between 33" and 34" in HO is .0115"(.292 MM) give or take, so 33" wheels would only make the tender sit .0058"(.146 MM) lower anyway
     
  15. Hytec

    Hytec TrainBoard Member

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    Best I can determine from limited research, the "Centipede" tenders of the New York Central, and others had 36" wheels. This may not be true across the board. Since you measured 10+ mm, I think you'll be safe with 36" wheels. Besides, I doubt you will let a Rivet Counter get close enough to your tender to measure its wheels with a digital micro-caliper.
     
  16. r_i_straw

    r_i_straw Mostly N Scale Staff Member

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    Unfortunately I am away from all my books for a week or so. I know which page on which book to get all of the information you need. I believe it was the largest "cylindrical" tender that the Southern Pacific used on any of their locomotives. About 16,000 gallons water.

    This is one of Bachmann's N scale versions of what they call their "oil tender" that I attached to a Pacific locomotive.
    [​IMG]

    Here is a photo of a prototype behind a 4-8-4. It has a dog house added to it by the T&NO to satisfy Texas laws.
    [​IMG]
     
  17. minesweeper

    minesweeper TrainBoard Member

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    While I wait for Russel’s data, I will be working on other projects.
    Anyway declared rivet counters are banned from my layout that follows the “good enough” philosophy, and here in Europe it should be difficult to find someone in the know.
    I am concerned in rolling performance, that is why I would rather get the correct wheels.
    I aslo noticed that the truck sides are runnning somewhat low, they hit objects even if these are very close to the railhead, like the white sleeper (in italy is used as a fouling point limit for switches). I think I will use the 36" wheels that are a trifle bigger than these ones, or go to the 38"?

    In any case, the decoration part is finished, the car got its incriptions and is now (almost) ready for MOW service.
    Mtz FRA 12K copia.jpeg
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2019
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  18. r_i_straw

    r_i_straw Mostly N Scale Staff Member

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    OK, I am home with my books now. These were Southern Pacific 160-C tenders with Commonwealth Steel Company's cast steel "water-bottom" frames with Commonwealth trucks sporting 36 inch wheels. The oil tanks held a nominal 4000 gallons but the marker bars gave a capacity of 3790 gallons. The water tanks held 16,152 gallons. With the flat top on the water tank they were sometimes called "semi-cylindrical" tenders.
    scanner751.jpg scanner752.jpg
     
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  19. r_i_straw

    r_i_straw Mostly N Scale Staff Member

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    Here is a photo of a Sunset Brass imported model with the weight data. I can't quite make out the empty weight (121,300?) but the loaded weight appears to be 295,000 lbs. That is consistent with subtracting the loco weight from the total weight for a GS-1 as delivered. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Pacific_class_GS-1
    Screen Shot 2019-02-18 at 5.22.18 PM.png
     
  20. minesweeper

    minesweeper TrainBoard Member

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    Thanks for the info, 36 inches will be for the wheels.
    For the weight, i thought the empty could be lower, but that is, i wont be able to fill both tanks without exceeding the 20 tons x axle limit.

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