AT&SF 1950s Layout with El Capitan

speedbird May 4, 2017

  1. speedbird

    speedbird TrainBoard Member

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    I've gotten back into model railroading as of late. New place, so I finally have space to build a layout. Recently I'd finished a Z scale N&W layout and decided it was high time to get back out west.

    I chose to model the AT&SF line west of Albuquerque in the 1950s. Steam is all but gone on the Santa Fe in the late 50s but that does give me the chance to run all the great transcontinental passenger trains. My favorite has always been the El Capitan hi-level on the 39 and 3/4hr service from Chicago to LA. Best looking passenger train of all time if you ask me.

    There is a lot more work to be done but the scenery is coming along. There is no bridge like that on the Gallup Sub but I love the drama of the ME viaduct. I'm sure I'll be forgiven a little artistic license here. The road is the old pre 1937 alignment of Rte 66 which by the late 50s was looking pretty bad.

    Anyway, hope you all enjoy! More to come later.


    >>Video of my El Capitan<<





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    badlandnp, MikaelB, WFOJeff and 4 others like this.
  2. Ghengis Kong

    Ghengis Kong TrainBoard Member

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    Wow! Looking very good on the scenery!
     
  3. Yannis

    Yannis TrainBoard Member

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    Great work there!!! I really liked your trestle and the scenery. Thanks for posting.
     
  4. acptulsa

    acptulsa TrainBoard Member

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    That landscape is extraordinary. Very well done!

    That El Capitan is also dying for a second booster engine. The Hi-Level version of the train never ran with less than 6000 horsepower that I know of, and desperately needed at least two huge steam generators (no ATSF F-3A or F-7A ever had a boiler) to keep cool in the desert.

    There was a two year margin when the Hi-Level El Cap was assisted by 4-8-4 and 2-10-4 helper engines on certain New Mexico grades. In scenery which looked very much like that.
     
  5. brokemoto

    brokemoto TrainBoard Member

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    That scenery is top drawer, very nice work. I am not the biggest fan of All Tramps Sent Free, but that looks really good. Funny, but I was thinking the same thing about another B-unit when I saw the quoted post. Somebody beat me to it. I did not know about the six-thousand horses, but I did have to wonder if one B unit would generate enough steam to power the air condition on a train like that. I do not know, of course, what kind of steam generators ATSF used in its EMD Bs. Who knows? Perhaps the train is running in the Spring or Fall and does not need the air condition.
     
    QMike likes this.
  6. speedbird

    speedbird TrainBoard Member

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    The B unit is in the box. Just didn't put it on for the run. Usually in this area it was ABABBA
     
  7. acptulsa

    acptulsa TrainBoard Member

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    Since I own a copy of Iron Horses of the Santa Fe Trail, I do. They used Vapor Clarkson steam generators. The F unit boosters came with two varieties--most came with huge boilers that produced 3000 pounds of steam per hour, and the last few built in '53-'54 had gargantuan monstrosities that produced 4000 pounds per hour. The E units used boilers making 2250 lb/hr in both cabs and boosters.

    It varied. In the sixties, and particularly after the Super Chief began running combined with it, the train usually ran five units and 7500 horses (or four Alcos). In the early sixties the cab units were fitted with m.u. connections on their noses, and might run in the middle of the lashup. Boosters generally outnumbered cabs, though if one or two of the newest boosters with the big boilers were used, it might run three cabs and two boosters (EMD).

    But in the forties, fifties and the '60-'62 period, the train ran ABBA (ABA with Alcos). Very, very rarely it might run an ABBBA lashup, if it were running particularly heavy. When you see old pics of an ABABBA lashup, what you're seeing is an AB helper lashup double-heading with the normal, coast-to-coast ABBA assignment. Prior to the early sixties, the helper pair would have one train crew, and the four units would have another. Just a couple of years earlier, the same districts would have a Texas or Northern double-heading the ABBA lashup. In some helper districts during some years, a pair of Geeps or six axle Alco roadswitchers would be coupled to the nose of the four unit set.

    I never heard of the Santa Fe assigning six units of any type to any passenger train, except in helper districts.
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2017
  8. speedbird

    speedbird TrainBoard Member

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    Yes, AB helper. That's what I meant.

    ANYWAY, I was just trying to show the training running through the scenery. It's not a finished layout, so I didn't pull all of the F units out of their boxes.
     
  9. acptulsa

    acptulsa TrainBoard Member

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    Well, so far, the scenery is spectacular. Very nice! You should give us tips on how you accomplished it.

    And if you decide to declare it to be 1956 and use a 5011-Class Texas as the helper, you certainly have my vote! I don't model a helper district, but I've always been tempted. It would be neat to have trains running with helpers one way, and the downhill trains running without. And, of course, helpers backing down the hill, individually or coupled together as a train of helpers.
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2017
  10. brokemoto

    brokemoto TrainBoard Member

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    I long suspected that ATSF used higher capacity steam generators in its F-units due to the lack of them in the As. The B units had more room for a steam generator than did the As, thus, they would have room for one of higher capacity. My understanding is that this practice came from the FTs, where there was room only in the B for a steam generator. If you look at the things, it makes sense, as the A unit on the FT is shorter. Funny, though, the batteries for both A and B were in the A units. There were one or two roads that had either a single FT-A or an A-A pair, but I forget which ones, now.

    In addition, when the FA-1 appeared, ALCo offered a steam generator in the B, only. I do not recall than any road bought any like that. When the
    FA-2s appeared, they were available with steam generators in the A or B. Some US roads did buy As with the steam generator, but, the only US road of which I am aware that bought Bs with a steam generator was the B&O. The stacks go on the end opposite the huge fan, unlike the PAs and A units, where they go behind the huge fan. In most cases, the B&O later removed them, as there were plenty of E units and the passenger F-3s to protect the schedules as more trains were discontinued. The B&O did make extensive use of the FPA/B-2s on accommodation trains.
     
  11. speedbird

    speedbird TrainBoard Member

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    We're ALCOs used often on ElCap? I've only seen a few photos. Sadly I'm avoiding 6 axels as my curve radius is too tight, well it's too tight for 86' passenger cars too... my freight trains look a lot better, that's for sure.

    One of these days I'm gonna pick up a set of ABBA FVM GP60s for my modern intermodal trains but they might make an appearance pulling a fantasy ElCap.

    Anyway, spent the morning adding some more greenery. I'm gonna add a small trading post on the other side of the highway, some fence, and telephone poles. All done, just need to find some time.

    The balast needs a wash too, that'll be coming eventually.

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    uploading images
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2017
  12. acptulsa

    acptulsa TrainBoard Member

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    They could actually fit a steam generator in an F7-a. The problem was they couldn't find room for a large water tank. That's what went in the end where the cab would have been.

    For the first more or less ten years after the Alcos started appearing right after the war, three unit Alco sets and four unit EMD sets were used interchangeably. By the time the El Cap went Hi Level, though, the Santa Fe had decided the F-7s were better, and used them on their hottest trains (El Cap, Chief and Super) more exclusively. The Alcos stayed in transcontinental service almost to the end, among other assignments, but mostly on trains like the Grand Canyon and mail trains. Later, when they got in the habit of running the F units in five unit lashups, the Alcos were more often seen in four unit lashups on main trains. The spare PA-1 cab units mostly migrated to Texas, where they were often used as reserve locomotives. They could and did haul freight now and then.

    The area you're modeling had tighter curves than any other part of the Santa Fe main line. That looks so good I can almost smell the sagebrush...
     
  13. Burlington Northern Fan

    Burlington Northern Fan TrainBoard Supporter

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  14. scottmitchell74

    scottmitchell74 TrainBoard Member

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    Excellent modeling! WOW!
     
  15. Jerry M. LaBoda

    Jerry M. LaBoda TrainBoard Supporter

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    Beautiful modeling!!! Thanks for sharing your work!!!
     
  16. speedbird

    speedbird TrainBoard Member

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    Thanks everyone.
     
  17. brokemoto

    brokemoto TrainBoard Member

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    Oh, yes. One of the Grange Roads, either the Louie or the Crabgrass Great Weedy had regular F-7s with steam generators (not the FP-7 that was some four feet longer). I have seen some service photographs of the things, I just forget which road it was.

    B&O ran passenger F-3s. There were some A-B pairs that the railroad ordered for passenger work. In addition, there was a B&O order of freight
    geared F-3s that were A-A pairs, originally. One A had the steam generator, the other had an extra water tank. They were supposed to work freight trains or #29, #30 and #33, which were the major mail and express trains. In addition, they worked accommodation trains in Maryland/West Virginia/Pennsylvania as well as in New York State, Ohio and Indiana. The railroad scattered them across its tracks so that they could do quick substitutions if the E-units broke down or were just unavailable. As the passenger trains came off the track, B&O removed the steam generators and ran them strictly as freight power until it traded them in, but I forget for what they traded them.

    B&O never bought FP-7s, new, but it did get some of C&O's after 1962. B&O's F-7s were strictly freight power. This is why I thought B-mann's choice of the F-7 for a new design in the PLUS line to go with their re-issued passenger cars was curious. The dimensions of the B-mann F-7 are those of a freight unit. B-mann issued these in GN, Penn, B&O, NYCS, Erie Lackamoney, All Tramps Sent Free and SP Daylight. SP and Penn had FP-7s as well as
    freight F-7s. B&O and NYCS F-7s were strictly freight power. We are discussing the ATSF F-7s I do not know about the GN, Erie or Delay, Linger and Wait.

    Oh, and Original Poster, I had assumed that what you showed us was a work in progress. I had assumed that you would dirtify the ballast at some point. It is still nice work. I do enjoy seeing it.
     
  18. Hytec

    Hytec TrainBoard Member

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    I think your trestle is Beautiful...WOW :cool:
     
  19. speedbird

    speedbird TrainBoard Member

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    Thanks! Like I said, it's fantasy west of ABQ but having spent many a year in the ABQ area, it needed a little spicing up!

    My only regret is that I won't have the kind of switching I'd like to have. But with the whole layout being 6' x 3' there would be compromises.
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2017
  20. speedbird

    speedbird TrainBoard Member

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    Couple new pics in this batch, added some details here and there, more trees

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