Anybody do customs of Atlas/Roco Locomotives back in the day?

bumthum Jul 13, 2014

  1. bumthum

    bumthum TrainBoard Member

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    Just curious. I know they were okay runners for their time (albeit noisy per Spookshow's site), but did anyone get up the gumption to do custom paint or detailing on them? I'm specifically interested in the GP-9 (which is interesting in that it is a late phase which resembles a GP18) and the E7A, but I think discussion of any customs of the Atlas/Roco line would be helpful. On a side note, is anyone still running these locomotives as part of their active rosters?
     
  2. YoHo

    YoHo TrainBoard Supporter

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    I have a GP9. I picked it up at a "local" trainshow for a song. It runs pretty well given its vintage and that it's used. I plan to clean it up and repaint it and if I can find better quality pan top 48" fans, replace the fans.
     
  3. rrjim1

    rrjim1 TrainBoard Member

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    I have several Atlas/Roco locos and also used the chassis for other shells, I replaced the old motor with the better E7 one. All are retired except two E7s with can motors and E8 shells painted for the EL. They run very quiet with the can motors and every bit as good as a Kato. When someone finally comes out with factory painted E8s for the EL these will be retired.
     
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  4. nickelplate759

    nickelplate759 TrainBoard Member

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    You bet! I removed the dynamic brake and decorated one GP9 for NKP. I eventually put the body on a Life-Like GP-18 chassis - still have it. I also have 3 GPs decorated for B&M. For these I replaced the Roco motor with a Kato. They still didn't pull much, but they ran better. I used one E7 chassis to repower a Rivarossi E8 (not as good as a ConCor/Kato E8, but way better than the original.

    George
     
  5. bumthum

    bumthum TrainBoard Member

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    Interesting, do you have any photos of the B&M GP's? They were Atlas / Roco units?
     
  6. LOU D

    LOU D TrainBoard Member

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    I have quit a few of them.I have three Geeps,a black N&W GP9,a blue N&W GP9,and a blue high nose N&W GP30..All run very well.I have a few oddballs with a Roco chassis,I have an equally oddball Reading GP35 on one,the only one Reading painted green.Atlas GP35 shells drop right on the GP9 chassis.At the moment,I have an ABA set of Con Cor/Roco F3's,I completely rebuilt them,all new axles,wiring,and Life Like wheels.I'm painting them up tangerine/blue CNJ's.I'm probably not keeping them,though,I figure I could sell them for enough to buy an ABA Kato F3 set to do CNJ..I have a few of the Roco E's painted in PRR and PC..
    I also have these Fa's,the PRR's and the EL's are custom painted,the LV's are stock..Funny that Atlas got these LV's so wrong.For some stupid reason,they picked 546,the only FA they had with a yellow stripe,and old passenger car style lettering.The actual lettering,number,etc,is correct,but it was actually Tuscan,not red.The red they used would have been correct for any of the red/black LV FA's,but not 546,and 546 only lasted in that paint a few months before it was sold....Here's my Roco Fa's and 546 on a Life Like FA1..




    oldie trains 006.jpg new download 1874.jpg
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 13, 2014
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  7. randgust

    randgust TrainBoard Member

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    This is a real 'woodsman's axe' story (you know, have changed the head three times and the handle four and its still the same axe you've had for 40 years!)

    Way back when - probably about 1983 - I made my first ATSF CF-7 from a Roco GP9 using the mechanism and the long hood, and scratchbuilding the rest. The first one was a round-roof and the second was an angular roof, and made specifically for JnJ to do a resin shell from it. Long story short, it just about ended up with a lawsuit, but I got my original shell back. The angular-cab one got published in the April 1990 RMC, just to establish it was MINE if it ended up getting used as 'the master'.

    I filed off the dynamic brakes. The motor was replaced with five-pole Con-Cor PA1 motors. Soldered wire handrails. Still looks pretty good. The one thing that always bugged me was the steps as I had no good way to fix those and the CF7 steps are very distinctive.

    When Atlas came out with the GP7 classics, I replaced both mechanisms with those. So now only the long hoods remain from the original build.

    The concept led to my own CF7 kits and my own resin and brass parts, which I still make today. But these two units are the 'grandparents' of the entire exercise.... and probably the first time I ever tried to make any money making anything, and it did not go particularly well. Lessons well learned.

    [​IMG]

    I also made a pair of GP9's for a friends layout - painted dark-blue B&O and using the same Kato motor trick. Original body shells and mechanisms. Somebody out there has the shells as they sold at Bedford last year. But I still kept the Kato 5-pole mechanisms! They got well-used, the plating is completely worn off the wheels. If there's anybody out there at actually insists on trying this stunt at home I'll photo the mechs but for now I've consigned that to the 'Ace Buggy Whip' production records. Those motors are no longer available, and they are the spares for my similarly-repowered RSD15's.
     
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  8. nickelplate759

    nickelplate759 TrainBoard Member

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    The Atlas/Roco B&M GP9 were custom decorated, not factory. Northeast Decals, I think.

    George

    Per request - here they are (cell-phone photo):

    20140713_095902_Android.jpg

    They still run, albeit poorly and sounding like coffee grinders.
    Note that 1700 had its fans changed for the correct (for B&M) 36" fans, the other shells are mostly stock. I didn't paint them, but I did rework the drives with Kato motors.
     
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  9. bumthum

    bumthum TrainBoard Member

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    I figured that, I've done extensive research into early B&M stuff in N scale and haven't found anything, locomotive wise, which predate the Bev-Bel items of the early 1980's. I was more interested in them for their custom decoration. I have one of the GP9's and was considering redecorating it into B&M, I just thought yours might provide some inspiration.
     
  10. u18b

    u18b TrainBoard Supporter

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    Atlas/Roco FA-1 shell, kitbashed FB-1 shell, modded and placed on a new chassis with superdetailing.

    [​IMG]
     
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  11. bumthum

    bumthum TrainBoard Member

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    Those look great, when were they decorated 70's-80's or more recently?

    Given their age it appears that a lot of Roco stuff is still in revenue service. For those who bought these back in the day, did these Roco locomotives redeem Atlas in your mind given the Mehano and Rivarossi locomotives they replaced?
     
  12. randgust

    randgust TrainBoard Member

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    You have to remember the competition. The only thing 'like that' out there on the GP7/9 and GP30 scene was the Rapido unit. While you could get it to run reliably and it had great slow speed after break-in, there was little comparison on appearance. And modifying much was really hard, as it wouldn't run with the shell and fuel tank off - it was an integral part of the truck alignment system.

    I'm not sure I'd say redeemed, more like 'improved' and if you spent work on them to try to improve them (replace pickup wires, lower the tension of the wheel pickups, clean flash out of universals, maybe change motors) you at least got a payback. And they were easy to work on. There was pretty much no fixing a one-truck drive Atlas GP40. These were at least 8x8.

    They were also widely available. Nearly every hobby shop had a slew of them. I did repairs on them in the shop and my kitbash career started as ones came in with flamed-out motors. The combination of a soft motor brush and a tiny motor - they ran hot, carboned up the commutator slots and often got fire rings.
     
  13. nickelplate759

    nickelplate759 TrainBoard Member

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    They were decorated in the mid-1980s. I bought them used around that time, so I don't know who did the decorating.

    Here's my model of NKP 511, on a 1st-generation LifeLike GP18 chassis. This was decorated by me, with Northeast Decals and a Details Associates Pyle light.

    NKP 511a.jpg NKP 511b.jpg
    George
     
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  14. bumthum

    bumthum TrainBoard Member

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    That looks pretty sharp. I am now, and always have been, impressed with the plastic Life Like chassis'. I have a Blue Bird GP9 I made using an Atlas shell on a plastic GP18 chassis and it pulls like a mule.
    1742-web.jpg


    So were the Roco's the first locomotives most people kitbashed in your experience? I realize we are still talking only a short time into the era where N scale really became a viable scale using factory locomotives, seems like options were limited. I am actually pretty impressed with the Roco GP9 I received, at least in terms of appearance for the time, I still haven't had a chance to get it running as I'm between houses right now. Of the older (vintage) N scale locomotives it seems like Roco GP's are few and far between. The Roco cab-units are a little more available, except the E7 which is also a premium-priced vintage loco. I am guessing that these things have some staying power on people's rosters and that is the reason they aren't common on the auction sites.
     
  15. Jerry M. LaBoda

    Jerry M. LaBoda TrainBoard Supporter

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    Actually the only fans you are likely to find are those made by Miniatures by Eric...

    http://www.miniaturesbyeric.com/itm00293.htm
     
  16. bumthum

    bumthum TrainBoard Member

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    That photo is terrible, are those the correct fans?
     
  17. Kenneth L. Anthony

    Kenneth L. Anthony TrainBoard Member

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    I have THREE Atlas GP-9s which I have not gotten around to putting into service YET, because I would want to paint them in zebra stripes before using them.

    I have a custom zebra striped Arnold Rapido GP-7 which I ran TODAY... before reading this post. Sounds a bit coffee-grindery but runs okay.
    [​IMG]
     
  18. LOU D

    LOU D TrainBoard Member

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    The one nice thing about the Roco Geeps,F7's,and F3's is the gearing.All the other locomotives that are similar,Mehano,MRC,ETC,have different pitch worms and double gears in the towers.The Roco's are much finer,geared lower.If you put Roco gears in an RSD15,the slow speed is amazing..I have a set of RSD15 high nose MRC's with Life Like wheels and Roco gears that will pull a house down..
     
  19. bumthum

    bumthum TrainBoard Member

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    You have three Atlas/Roco GP9's waiting for zebra stripes? I'm not too familiar with ATSF GP9's, did they use the Phase III?
     
  20. randgust

    randgust TrainBoard Member

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    The other thing of that era worth mentioning is that Atlas had a WONDERFUL parts system; you could get the parts diagrams and order anything off of them you wanted, it was inexpensive, and they had them. Nobody else could do that. I've even got a couple old parts letters in my files signed from Thad Stepek.

    When I found out I could get Roco 0-6-0 switcher wheels and siderods as separate parts, well, I was never quite the same again. This was started in 1976. It started life as a Roco GP30. About three feet of frame between the motor and gear tower was cut out to shorten it and epoxied back together, the motor shaft directly feeds the rear gear tower. So total length is about right, its only the truck wheelbase that gives it the nickname 'Bigfoot'. Rest was scratchbuilt and hacked from other models - the stack is turned wood. Still running today, which is why I have a stockpile of old Roco GP trucks and gears. It's on its third motor.

    [​IMG]

    So for me at least, yeah, that was the start of serious all-out kitbashing.

    Getting this thing to creep taught me everything I know about tuning those %$$#! Roco trucks. If you could get the pickups adjusted right so they didn't put too much friction on the gears, you had a winner, change the pickup wires so it wouldn't bind, make sure the plastic axles weren't bent....
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 14, 2014
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