2017-2018 10th Annual International Winter Layout Party

ppuinn Dec 17, 2017

  1. ppuinn

    ppuinn Staff Member

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    Jim Wiggin:
    Thanks for the detailed description of your module legs. You've given me some ideas for some new NMRA division HO modules we're building this spring.

    Would a wing nut glued to the top of the leveling carriage bolt that is threaded through the T-nut make it more convenient (easier to see, easier to reach) to level the module with your fingers than reaching between the underside of the leg block and the floor with your 3/4 to 1 inch thick fingers to turn the 1/4 inch thick head of the carriage bolt?

    The leveling bolts on the modules for our current NMRA division HO modules are pressure fit into the bottoms of our 2x2 inch module legs and require us to get on hands and knees with a wrench to turn them...and every time we set up, we grumble about how uncomfortable and inconvenient this is. For the new modules we are building, we're considering putting a 6 inch long 1x2 with a 4 inch long slot along the floor end of the 2x2 and securing it with a bolt through the 2x2 and the slot. A wing nut at the end of the bolt would let us raise or lower the 1x2 as needed for leveling. (Yes, we'll probably put a permanent screw in the slot near the bolt, too, so the 1x2 can't rotate out of alignment around a loose wingnut.)

    The legs of our current modules slide into pockets in the module corners, and are removed completely each time the modules are transported. Putting folding legs on our new modules like you have on yours will certainly be more convenient.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2018
  2. ppuinn

    ppuinn Staff Member

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  3. nscalestation

    nscalestation TrainBoard Supporter

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    This week I got the gravel areas done around where the diesel distributor will be. I first painted the area with aged concrete color and then put down the gravel over that. For gravel I like to use Arizona Rock & Mineral N scale products while for track ballast I use HO scale. I feel this difference in texture looks better. The structures can be continued on the work bench at this point and placed on the layout later.

    2018TBLP20.jpg



    The 4th industry on the Battle Mountain section going to be a barite crushing and railcar loading facility Barite is a mineral mined in this area and used quite a lot in the oil well drilling process. There is a similar facility in Battle Mountain and another one nearby. While at my LHS to pick up the gravel for the diesel distributor area I checked to see if they had a Walthers Glacier Gravel kit. They did and at a price equal or less than I had seen on line when checking earlier.

    2018TBLP15.jpg


    So I have now started to layout the last of the four industries and to assemble the kit with a bit of modification to fit the area I have for it. Once the layout and basic assembly is done then this area can also get the landscape finished while the structures are finished on the work bench. The way this is moving along I believe that I may be able to actually install the Battle Mountain section in the layout by the end of this years layout party.

    2018TBLP21.jpg
     
  4. Jim Wiggin

    Jim Wiggin Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    That is an excellent idea Dave and one I may just investigate further. Thank you!
     
  5. sp4009

    sp4009 TrainBoard Member

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    A lot was accomplished this week, the trestle got finished, along with the last of my track work and wiring. The only thing left that I set out upon in my first post is completion of the back drop on the left hand side of the first photo I posted. More photos will follow, but I have to go to work now..

    The Toledo Hauler delivers the first cars of woodchips to the dump site.

    [​IMG]
     
  6. nscalestation

    nscalestation TrainBoard Supporter

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    Continuing to work on the barite crushing facility. As it often does, my mind wandered and I got to thinking about how the barite plant will move the string of covered hoppers down the track to position them under the loader one by one. Decided they needed a car pulling winch and this is what I came up with. Scratch built from my styrene scrap box, here it is before painting.

    2018TBLP22.jpg


    Here it is with some paint and in the spot it will occupy at the end of the siding. Still a bit of touch up to do and some weathering.

    2018TBLP24.jpg


    Also extended the siding so it can now hold as many as six 2-bay covered hoppers with room for 5 car lengths on each side of the loader.

    2018TBLP23.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2018
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  7. ppuinn

    ppuinn Staff Member

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    Great detail to model. I’ve got two places that could use a winch like that. ...but I’m struggling to remember details from a rail car winch I saw on a summer job in 1968.
    It looks like there is a winch track along the near end of the ties. Is that track, indeed, a part of the winch? If it is, then why would the cable for the winch line up directly behind the coupler. If my memory is accurate, the winch we used on a summer job I had 50 years ago, was positioned between the track and the building and sometimes we’d hook the cable to the frame at the corner of the car. When I dropped in two summers later, they had replaced the winch (which only pulled one car at a time in one direction across the back of the warehouse)with a wheeled tractor that could push or pull several cars at a time, and could move rail cars on other spurs within the plant.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  8. nscalestation

    nscalestation TrainBoard Supporter

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    I think what you are seeing in my photos are pencil lines that were drawn when I laid the track, not all scenery is done yet.

    Did a bit of research and looked at a lot of photos on line. Seems there are many ways industries move rail cars. I guess it depends on how often they need to do it and just exactly what type of movements they need to make. In this case the spur track is straight and as a car is finished loading the winch will pull the string of cars toward it until the next empty car is under the loader. I would think that they would somehow pressurize the brake lines and loosen the hand breaks while move the string. I saw one OSHA report of an case where this was not done and the winch was pulling against locked wheels, eventually snapping the cable and killing the operator. On my model when the locomotive arrives to service the siding, they will pull the entire string of cars out and after leaving the loads on a siding they would add any empties to be delivered to the trailing end of the string and then push the string back into the spur so that the leading car is under the loader. Yes, I tend to overthink things.

    Seems like this would be a good Shapeways project for someone. I looked but did not find anything so came up with this.
     
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  9. ppuinn

    ppuinn Staff Member

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    Pencil lines! Yep, time to upgrade my reading glasses, again.
     
  10. ppuinn

    ppuinn Staff Member

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    While testing one of my recent rewrites of a job description for this upcoming weekend's operating session, we encountered 2 turnouts ruined by warping and kinking caused by recent changes in humidity and cold in the 4'4" x 35 foot under-porch area (former fruit cellar). I had planned to reconfigure that area next week, after the operating session, but the 2 unrepairable turnouts prompted me to make the changes early. The 2 bad turnouts were at the south end of a pair of 3-track yards; the yards curved parallel to each other from the heated main train room through a doorway to the unheated under-porch area.
    Before pics:
    This is a view of the south end of the yards in the under-porch area. The bad turnouts are next to the helix near the top of the pic. The 1st track on the right splits into 2 tracks at the top of the picture and they both go around the outside of the helix and stay on the upper deck. As this single track comes down toward the doorway, it is hidden by trees in this view. The next 3 tracks at the top of the pic come out of the helix from the lower deck, and separate into the ICG track to IC Jct out of the pic to the left, the ATSF Yard on the left and the P&E Yard on the right.
    The next before pic shows the middle of the yards in the doorway. The hidden track (which is 3 blocks away from the 2 yards in the prototype, is inside the buildings which are alongside the yards on this 9.5 inch wide shelf in a 36 inch doorway. This second view of the middle of the yards shows the buildings removed to reveal where the two hidden tracks combine to a single track to leave enough room for the yard tracks to be visible in the doorway.
    This is a view of the north end of the yards. ATSF Yard on right, P&E tracks in middle, 3rd Street track (street running, just like the prototype) is visible above the white building, gray roofs of storefronts on left hide the PPU's Ice House Track (which, in the prototype, ran under the Route 9 road bridge in the distance). Another view of the north end of the yards taken a decade ago. The yards are on the left, 3rd street in the middle disappears behind buildings and the red storefronts and cardboard mock-up of the Pekin Mission Building and the picture and the trees hide the Ice House Track. The under-porch area is visible through the doorway in the upper left corner of this pic.
    [​IMG]

    After pics:
    The south end view shows how the hidden single track was separated into 2 tracks...still hidden by trees at this part of the yard. The PPU Ice House track on the right passes around the helix and goes to the Pekin Farm Yard. The second hidden track separates to IC Jct on the upper deck and to the helix to go to the lower deck. The P&E Yard only has a Main and a Passing track now; and the ATSF Yard tracks are long enough to hold 18 cars instead of just 12; and the ICG track from Helix to IC Jct (which used to circle around the helix to 3rd Street), now immediately enters 3rd Street from the helix, so time out of sight in the helix and circling the helix was reduced from 5 min 21 sec to 3 min 45 seconds for 4 of the 14 trains that use the Pekin Helix. This reconfiguration also resulted in a significant reduction in the complexity of the switching routes I had been using to get through Pekin and up/down the helix. After pic of the Middle view of the 2 yards showing the 5 yard tracks instead of 6. The building mock-ups will have to be widened (deepened) to cover 2 tracks instead of just one, but that probably won't happen until toward the end of the Layout Party. After pic of the 2 Pekin Yards: Note the additional space between the tracks and the buildings...much more like the prototype than the previous arrangement.
    I'm going to be testing a few more job descriptions on Thursday, and for the rest of this week will complete last minute cleaning and trackwork, but have resigned myself to doing a limited op session instead of a full one (fewer operators, fewer trains being run) for this first session using the new job descriptions (Track warrants).
     
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  11. nscalestation

    nscalestation TrainBoard Supporter

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    Dave I am always amazed at the size of your layout, truly a basement empire ! Must represent many years of work.

    Arial views here, first of the Barite facility with placement of major components now finalized and application of gravel scenery complete. Made a storage tower for the receiving end from 3/4 inch PVC fittings, this is next to the white pickup. This will get painted a concrete color and I may added an etched metal ladder. Need to get back to the hobby shop for some structural shapes to make conveyor structures that move finished product from building to loader. Already put in footings for the supports (blue arrow). The winch from my last post can be seen at the end of the spur (red arrow).

    2018TBLP25.jpg


    Next is the diesel fuel distributor with the tanks now painted white and a etched metal ladder added to one of them.

    2018TBLP26.jpg


    Here is an overall view of where Battle Mountain is today. Just applied the last of the scenery at the far right end which is still not dry and shows as being darker right now. At each end of this section there is no scenery so that it can be blended after this is installed into the layout. That will be happening soon. Finishing of structures and scenes can be done after it is installed.

    2018TBLP27.jpg
     
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  12. ppuinn

    ppuinn Staff Member

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    Brad said, "... a basement empire! Must represent many years of work."

    We bought this home in June 2003, because it had exactly what we wanted for our retirement:
    1. a large sun-filled upstairs room with lots of closet and storage space for my wife's hobbies (weaving and leather purse-making),
    2. a 35x40 ft basement for my RR empire, and
    3. a master bedroom on the main floor for both of us.
    Six months later, I had the 4 helixes and most of the original double-deck benchwork done, and the original mainlines and yards were done by Spring 2004.
    The RI Kellar Branch to Peoria Heights and the Kellar Helix from RI Peoria Yard to Peo Hgts were trackless (bare) lower level shelves for a few years until, for my first major expansion, I laid track to Peo Hgts (the end of the original shelves), and then extended the shelf for another 24 feet of mainline to Pioneer Park (where the Kellar Branch actually ended in the 1970s, the era I'm modeling).
    A year or two later, another major lower level expansion under a peninsula and under the Keystone Steel and Wire Mill added over 40 feet of mainline and several towns and rail yards to the Southern Division Mainline.
    And just a few years ago, under Bartonville I added a 15 foot shelf to connect the end of the Northern Division Mainline with the end of the Southern Division mainline. This completed a lower level loop that allowed me to extend my Northern mainline 60 feet, add 2 new destination yards/cities to the Northern Division that were just passing sidings on the Southern mainline, and add a loads-in-empties-out hidden connection between a Northern division coal mine and a Southern division rail-barge facility.
    While I was working as a school psychologist, most of my model RRing occurred on the weekends or during my summers off. But since retiring in 2013, I now consider myself a fulltime modeler who happily puts in more than 40 hours/week building or running trains on my own and others' layouts.
     
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  13. nscalestation

    nscalestation TrainBoard Supporter

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    Well that sound's like a great retirement. I also retired in 2013 and that year I built my train room. The following year I started this layout. While I no longer work an actual job after taking care of all my other responsibilities I am maybe a 20 hour per week model railroader. Then this layout does not get my full time attention as I also have 2 Ntrak modules and some modules for an Asian prototype layout that I work on and display at shows.

    Over this past weekend I was able to install the Battle Mountain section into the layout. This almost doubles the length of the layout not counting staging and helix. The track here is about 52 inches high. I eventually want to clear the clutter under this area and have a 2nd work bench there that will just be for model building.

    2018TBLP28.jpg


    Besides the section being supported by several shelf brackets, the end is bolted onto the Golconda section with 5/16 bolts. I have now started to extend the wiring into the new section. DCC Main bus, DCC line for each track, and a 12 VDC bus so far. Will also need to extend DCC LocoNet bus and I am sure more things later. It's at times when I am under the layout doing this work that I am glad that most of the wiring was done before the section is installed and access is easy.

    2018TBLP29.jpg


    Also starting to make the track connections between the sections. The front one fell right into place but the rear one need some work with the belt sander and some Spackle to smooth out the transition between the sections. After the track gets all squared away, scenery will be blended between the sections.

    2018TBLP30.jpg
     
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  14. ppuinn

    ppuinn Staff Member

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    Overall, I was more pleased than dissatisfied with the results of my op session with limited crew and limited trains on Saturday, but it was significantly different than what I had planned. 6 of the 10 core crew members invited were ill or had schedule conflicts: it isn't unusual to have 2 or 3 unavailable, but more than half was a surprise.
    I had initially planned to test 6 to 10 of my recently rewritten job descriptions for some complex switching runs, but ended up spending half of the session chasing down an electrical problem that has caused locos to buzz, hesitate, and sometimes stall when entering any of the 4 blocks (Blocks 13-16) powered by my 3rd booster. We've worked on this issue multiple times since it began after adding a 2nd booster several years ago, and continued after adding a 3rd and 4th booster a year or two ago. We successfully resolved the issue entering blocks 1-12, by running a common ground between the boosters and command station, ensuring that proper phase was maintained in all 16 blocks, and by tweaking the short circuit sensitivity and trip times.But it wasn't until we rerouted Loconet cables so that the 3rd booster was connected closer to the command station (rather than at the end of a long cable that linked all of the UP5 panels) that we got locos to enter and leave all blocks without hesitation, buzzing, or stalling. By changing a few cables, we may have also unknowingly replaced a cable that had an incorrectly crimped connector.
    The few job descriptions with lots of switching that we tested, took 4 to 5 times as long to run as I had guesstimated, but the consensus was that:
    1. reading the job description for the first time and trying to match place names with specifically labeled locations on the layout would go MUCH faster the 2nd time an operator ran the job, and would probably match the guesstimates by the 3rd or fourth time they ran the job;
    2. the version of worksheets for assigning cars to industries we used on Saturday was about the 3rd or 4th edition, so I had already simplified and clarified the steps where I could...but it was still difficult for the operators to make sense of the car assignment process from reading the steps rather than me explaining or showing them the steps (which would have circumvented/invalidated any assessment of how clearly the worksheets were written), and this resulted in lots of time lost in reading (and re-reading, and re-reading) the process before actually doing it.
    3. I noticed that, a few times, the operators lost their place on the job descriptions, and would inadvertently repeat or skip over steps. I think adding some blank lines between activities and/or grouping them by Blocks/Stations/Subdivisions may structure activities a little better. Adding check-off boxes might help operators keep better track of where they are, too.
    4. I need to add more hooks and/or shelves for holding clipboards while operators are switching; and someplace for storing uncoupling picks when they are not in use.
    5. And I need a coat rack by the front door, and a front porch light that comes on automatically at dusk, so folks aren't walking from their parked cars to the house in the dark...although city dwellers might enjoy the rural-lack-of-light-pollution's star-show.
    6. We found a loco with wheels that were too narrow or too wide, so the loco trucks were binding as they ran through turnout frogs.
    7. locos ran well and track was clean, so the only track issue we had was certain locos stumbling as they went through some of the yard turnouts.
    8. the jobs without switching that we ran, were completed with very few issues (just a low hanging trip pin and one loco coupler not catching as reliably as I'd like).
    9. I may go with advanced consisting...to eliminate the 1 to 2 second delay in the mu'ed units' starting or stopping when power is applied.
    10. I need to add 2 or 3 place names and 3 industry names to fascia labels...but operators found the ones already in place very helpful.

    This week I'll continue rewriting and testing some of my job descriptions, attempt to set up the car card system for the 48 cars on the HO switching layout, work on some trackwork and scenery for our NMRA division's modules, and (maybe, if I have time) improve the speed matching of some of my locos.
     
  15. ppuinn

    ppuinn Staff Member

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    Brad, your modules are looking great. If possible, would you please post some more pics of the switch linkages you are using (from fascia knob to frog electrical switch, to throw bar)? Are those R/C airplane control rods? (plastic tube outside, and plastic or brass tube or rod inside?) I tried R/C airplane control rods for some of my turnouts 3 decades ago, but was never able to get them to work reliably.
     
  16. ppuinn

    ppuinn Staff Member

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    I'm particularly interested in how you linked the white tube/rod to the electrical switch mounted on the underside of the surface and (I'm assuming) to the actuator wire that goes up through the surface of the module to move the throwbar side to side. Also, on this module, your 4 throwbars are aligned perpendicular to the fascia...would your method also work if the throwbar was moving at up to a 45 degree angle to the fascia?
    I've got a dozen turnouts at the back of my large yard that are currently driven by a long reach to ground throws, and I'm hoping that installing reliable fascia-mounted push/pull knobs might be a less expensive option than tortoises.
     
  17. nscalestation

    nscalestation TrainBoard Supporter

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    Yes, using something like this would help with your harder to reach turnouts towards the back edges of the layout. Even though my bench work in not deep, I have caught things with a sleeve reaching in so like to keep that to a minimum. I made a post on my blog not long ago about how I had done these but looking at it I realize there was not much detail in how things connect up around the switch itself.

    https://palisadecanyonrr.blogspot.com/2017/11/hand-throws-for-turnouts.html

    So I took some better photos of that part which are presented here.

    First the switch assembly itself. I guess I had 10 of these on the old LA Terminal Junction layout because I have used 6 on this layout so far and found 4 more in storage and here is one of those.

    2018TBLP32.jpg


    Next looking at one of the ones installed under Battle Mountain the connections to the slide switch can be clearly seen. I use .030 or .040 steel wire that I get from my LHS. This comes in about a 3ft length. This is placed inside Evergreen 3/32 or 1/8 plastic tube. These are 14 inches long and here I was able to use just one tube as the bench work was only 16 inches wide. On the old layout I had a few were I spliced the tubes together with a larger tube on the outside to get a longer length.

    2018TBLP34.jpg


    You asked about bending these and yes you can make slight and sweeping bends OK. As my bench work on the front of the Battle Mountain section is lower than the rear and all of the turnouts were on the higher rear part I had to make the control wires bend up to reach them as shown in this photo. The key is having something supporting and aligning the wire so that it is straight when it gets to the switch. On the old layout I had some turnouts that were not parallel with the front edge and I had the control were curved in the horizontal plane.

    2018TBLP31.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2018
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  18. ppuinn

    ppuinn Staff Member

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    Nicely Done, Brad!!! Great pics, clear description, and lots of details. Thank you.
     
  19. nscalestation

    nscalestation TrainBoard Supporter

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    Over the last few days I reinstalled the turn around loop at the east end of the Battle Mountain section. Was able to use the same Kato to M/E transition track sections with minor changes made in the Kato track layout. I had not run the layout for a couple of weeks so first train to test things out was of course the track cleaning train consisting of two of my Aztec cars pulled by a pair of Kato C44-2W's shown here on the west bound track about to enter Battle Mountain.

    2018TBLP35.jpg


    At the other end of Battle Mountain the track connections between sections has been completed and I have started to build up the scenery in that area. A sheet of styrene is being used to protect the back drop while the scenery work is going on. The Digitrax LocoNet bus has been extended and a throttle panel has been installed on the Golconda section. This will all look much better when a finished fascia board is installed.

    2018TBLP36.jpg


    Here is the overall view from the end of the loop. I am already planning the next section of the layout.

    2018TBLP37.jpg
     
  20. nscalestation

    nscalestation TrainBoard Supporter

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    The recent extension of my layout has started another series of events. I had always planned to have my work bench under the layout and there is enough room for working but not for the the tool chest I had on the bench to open all the way. Another thing I had planned was to add a second work bench for model making in the hope that I would be able to keep things neater. I have now come to the conclusion that another work bench would most likely result in more mess and the problem is actually me. I have to have better discipline in keeping my work are neat. So instead of adding a second work bench I am using the $15 maple top that I had picked up at a garage sale to my existing bench. The space that would have been used for the second bench can be used for a base cabinet to hold projects that I am not working on right at that moment and for a computer station / DCC systems area. This was going to be some I needed anyway. I will also be adding a couple of drawers under the top of the work bench. Photo below is the work bench with new maple top sitting on top. I am now working on adding the LED lights to the bottom of the Battle Mountain section to light the work bench.

    2018TBLP40.jpg


    I have also been working on blending the land forms between the Golconda and Battle Mountain Sections.

    2018TBLP39.jpg


    Not liking the flat edge at the back of the layout between the two industries at the rear of the Battle Mountain section I am adding some hills.

    2018TBLP38.jpg


    I will be away from the layout for the next few days so no further updates for about a week or so.
     
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