So setting up in the workshop/office/train room this evening playing with layout designs in a 10 by 10 foot space. Not anywhere near happy with some of my new designs and trying to simplify things as much as possible. No duck unders, no crawling over or under anything. I want the ability for continuous running and gave up on staging because of space that it takes. I still want to generate trains on what would be a branch line with a connection to a short line serving the logging and mining interests. The short line would be point to point while the branch would allow for the continuous running. The idea of staging for the branch line trains reared it's head again to supply the consists for interchange with the short line. And now the idea of incorporating a helix just to serve staging along with still having the ability to have continuous running. Has it been done? Any ideas?
Would it be possible to upload a sketch of the room outline? Knowing where the door, etc, are found will be very useful information. I recall you have done so in the past, but I am certain it would be helpful here.
Basically it is just a 2nd or 3rd bedroom in a house I intend to be in sometime in the future. Using standard dimensions which could be a foot more or less on one side. Door most likely would be either the lower right or left corner like most designs and be a 3.0 door. Layout is most likely going to be a capitol letter G that is tipped over to the right with the door where the opening in the letter G is and the layout is around the walls. I have two trains of thought. One is the place the staging above the layout along one leg and have the ramp to the helix come down into a Mesa to the layout. The other is to simply stick it in under the layout, raise the layout overall some and again access the layout with a helix at one end climbing up. In trying to get continuous running I would bring the track around the outside of the Mesa. Helix could be accessed by a curved turnout and a short tunnel. I will be staying with 4 axle power so 9.75 radius is doable. Will try and scan something later that I can post of at least the initial shape of the layout. A post thought. I originally set my layout level low because of some health issues that I knew would worsen over time. Basically I could set in a chair and operate my layout comfortably. Thinking with the under table staging I would raise the layout overall and have the staging chair level for easier reaching in with less strain.
What about pull out? Basically think modules mounted on supports with casters. That way, if you need to access somewhere which isn't easy to reach, you detach that part of the layout and turn it so that you can reach it. If I'm not mistaken, you can buy casters that have foot activated brakes to stop them from moving. Also, to make it easier to access the underside for things like wiring, you may want to see if it's practical to hinge one side of each section so that you can lift them up, or even flip them open onto sawhorses, for access. Obviously the issue with that is making it lightweight enough to easily lift open while being durable enough to survive the times, and to make it less painful if part of you is under it at the time, when you lose your grip when opening/closing them.
John.... Taking a cue from Mike Fifers http://www.las-cruces-model-railroad-clubs.com/html/n_scale.html (bottom of the page). Maybe it would be easier to put staging behind a scenic divider on the main level and along the long wall instead of a helix and hidden staging. Being disabled I find my layout at 36 inches and using a mechanics rolling stool to zip along the layout sure makes things easier to see and operate. Hidden staging at our ages or disabilties just isnt feasible in my mind...JMO. BTW...I 'borrowed' his staging area plan for Lucky Penny Yard on my layout ;-)
Although my scanner does not handle the size paper I am working with it is close enough to get most of it and show the tipped over letter G concept. The mainline is black while the shortline is green. Scenery is built up rather than another shelf level and the shortline is on top of that scenery. The main is at water level and the shortline crosses the main at various points by trestles or where the main runs through some short tunnels. The main has approx. 30 foot of run. Four axle power on the main so I can play with 9.75R. The shortline has some 8 and 9 inch radius. Although cut off in the copy the harbor area at the door has the USCG station, cannery, NUMA and seaplane hangar in addition to a small two stall engine house, Atlas turntable, and fuel and water. The possible helix to staging would have to be at either end where the mainline turns back. Thought is also I could do away with the helix and have a long ramp that runs under one leg to staging under the other, gaining my elevation in the length of the ramp. I do like the concept of staging hidden by a scenic divider and since I am doing nothing right now but some designs I may try a plan that fits that concept. The 10X10 is just a standard based on room normal room sizes. If I end up with a 9X11 then I would have to tweak the final plan. Most rooms have the door on one side and I have seen very few that had the door in the middle of a wall.
Well have been playing around with the designs in between therapy appts and other things. Really don't like the helix idea a lot, takes up real estate, Thought about a ramp down to under the layout staging. Hmm stooping and bending for an old geezer. Then a dim light bulb lit in the old brain. Narrowed the benchwork to 18 inches except for the center island basically keeping 30 inch aisles At the top right I stopped the mainline run and returned it about two feet short of the right wall. On the right wall I mount a shelf of 12 inches for the staging tracks that feeds the top of the return loop. Continuous running and a feed from staging of at least 6 tracks. Do a 2nd shelf above the first for another 6 tracks and run the ramp behind the mesa hiding some of the return loop and then blending and hiding it behind scenery to ultimately join the main further down to reduce grade. No crawl unders, all staging within 12 inches of reach and only the upper staging would have any grade and that would be up into staging. With a 12 inch separation between the shelves and depending on where I blend the line into the main about a 1.6% grade. And my Alco FA fleet would hardly break a sweat on that.
I'm trying to work out a plan where I have staging at both ends with no helix. The layout will be mostly one grade the whole way with cut off somewhere for continued running. MY friend in HO did the same (minus continual running) for his layout. You start at the summit and head down, or start at the bottom, and head up. Staging is off the sceniced layout. Unfortunately, he's taken down his website....
I had a staging at either end in a design done much earlier with a balloon track run around that the tracks from staging fed to. When I reduced the size those had to go because of the space ate up. I think the single end feed from the two shelves will work out better for the small space.
This is a very exciting phase of the hobby. How about going with a modular layout design? It'll fit through the door. An NTrak module can be connected to any other Ntrak module to make a very large layout. Layouts are not complete without a station.
I spoke earlier about an idea for some narrow (12") shelf staging and I managed to draft up a rough idea. The layout is still the tipped over letter G. A lot of room doors do not set right in the corner but usually have about four to six inches behind them so I am using that space if there also. Essentially my early train of thought was to have the bottom shelf level with the layout. But in thinking about it some I can adjust the two shelf heights up and down to have the bottom run up to layout level and the top run down. I split the grade so to speak reducing it and probably can keep the upper grade well below 1.5% on the climb back up to staging. The lower shelf should be able to be kept below .8% or less, depending on how much separation I place between the shelves. I will have storage and staging for 182 to 207 cars plus power on the front. Almost all power would be 4 axle FAs and RS units. If I retain any steam it will be Kato 2-8-2s and some 4-6-2s as my biggest steam with the occasional 4-8-4 or 4-8-2 running a passenger of maybe 6 to 8 cars. When I run the Challenger or the 2-8-8-2 I would have to use two staging tracks to hold the consist. I also included some short tracks for my gas electric fleet. I will look at turnout availability and may use some three way turnouts to clean up the throat of the staging rather than the Rube Goldberg hodge podge I put on paper.
I think you'll need to cook up a nolix-type design unless you are willing to make the big compromise and go to steeper grades. Recall that with a helix, you need clearance when track overlaps, and that clearance includes the base, track and roadbed aside from the max height of your RR equipment, plus some clearance for reaching in to retrieve crashed cars. In a rough calc for a single 1% grade circular loop with a 2" rise/separation, I get a near 3' radius. You and Deekus are outside the room. That's why those MR plans always suggested you hijack the closet for a helix. Even if you create long ovals, that bottom staging level could either be cramped or you'll get bored waiting for your train to leave or enter staging without resorting to steeper grades. And even with perfect trackwork and construction, stuff still happens and you'll need good access. So you might check out what the Brits and others with limited room do with cassettes and sector plates for staging. There are all kinds of articles online.
A little different turnout arrangement on the low level gains more transition space and it either is an inch or so below the layout or even with it. The upper level would pass over and clear the return loop then the ramp down would be a scenic ridge that hides the track until it exits a valley and connects to the back main. The main factor that will determine grade for the upper staging is how far I need to separate the shelves from each other to have adequate hand space to reach in. Thought is to pre-assemble trains out on the layout and back them into staging for the next operating session and not assemble them on the staging shelves. This is thinking outside the box but I see no reason it cannot be done. And I have the motive power to shove a 20 car cut up the upper grade. The layout for all intents and purposes ends at the return loop that is partially in a mesa. the rest from there to the right is all shallow depth staging.
There is a point at which you have to stop designing and start building. Otherwise you end up with something like this.
Looking at your plans briefly you could turn the areas numbered 15 down to 6 in a "nolix." I'll give you a picture of mine. I too don't have a large room but I wanted an HO empire, I wanted switching but I'm also a railfan. So I created an area that is a modified helix but you'll see it doesn't look like your traditional train slinky to gain elevation. I have two decks, toyed with a third one underneath for staging but gave it up. In the nolix is 75 feet of track, and roughly a 2.2% grade. If you look you will notice the fourth level is behind the ribs I will be using for mountain support. The first level will be hidden, leaving the second and third level only visible from the front. You will notice I double tracked the second level, I could have double tracked the nolix for staging but I changed my mind. There will be a valley with a river at the bottom between the second and third level.
One problem is that that whole area is the harbor area which is a must have. Life would be better if I end up with about three more feet of room. But all is just a proposed plan right now that is one of five I have done. I like the shelf idea as it stops the crawling under the layout for staging issues. I've yet to mess with the staging behind a scenic divider and that is next.
