Urban Industry Switching Layout... ?

I have a vision. I have limited experience and am just plain not good at track design. My current vision is a layout in the city. The following link is a great image of how I imagine the main part of the layout. Different style to the city, but otherwise what I am contemplating.

http://mrsvc.blogspot.com/2008/10/dentons-kingsbury-branch-inspirational.html

There is one in Armstrongs book 18 Tailor Made, page 37 The Pensylvania Railroad (Richmond Virgininia). Its not exactly what I have in mind, but close.

I guess, since space is limited and we are always trying to squeeze in more, I got to wondering why stetch it out so much. Why not have a layout based on a busy urban area. mainline running through an industrial area.

I do desire to make it a looped for running trains.
20x13 is the space (L-shaped) which if I did a 3 to4' width I could have a narrow isle on the back side. So the back would be hidden and a return loop.

So, any other inspirational layouts that are similar? Any critics of the concept?

 

The Kingsbury Branch is a very groovy design & concept, and worth to emulate.
Besides looking through the Model Railroader track plan database (if you're a subscriber), the Free Heaven Harbor Terminal has some great ideas, and Wolfgang Dudler's Westport Terminal is very inspirational as well (he also documents a lot of his design and building process).

And, there's the Urban Modeler's SIG with a wealth of info.

I'd also highly recommend John Pryke's Building City Scenery for Your Model Railroad (Kalmbach, 2000).

The Kingsbury Branch is in N scale, but you don't mention which scale you prefer.
I'm also a little confused by your space (which I'm assuming is 20 feet by 13 feet): can you draw it out and include any obstructions (doors, windows, pipes) as well as any "off-limits" space?
Having a long stretch of layout as hidden with a narrow aisle is probably not the most optimal use of space for a switching layout, but if you share a diagram of the space, I'm sure we can help get you started.

Hope this helps.

 

I will doodle in xtrack the current space for the plan.

I have looked at Free Haven Harbor and its similar in concept to where I am trying to go. I will have to look into that book and the other links.

I am favoring HO at this time. I had that in there, must have gotten the snip when I tried to make the post a reasonable length. But I am still not 100%, If I can get a layout I am happy with in HO, then I think that will make for a full conversion.

I have been doodling on paper some ideas, but I have no scanner.

 

That is the space I am working with. No real limitations. The layout needs to be away from the fireplace by about 1' min even though I do not use it. I show it away from the wall but it doesn't have to be. I am still open on the bench work and space use. In fact everything in the room could be moved. This is just the best arrangement I have found so far. Its not ideal having the entertainment center in the same room, but alas its the case at the moment.

 

Thanks for that Link to Westport Terminal.That is very much like what I am thinking about.

 

With HO you're going to need about 3 1/2' for the return loop curves, and that's using 18" radius curves, which are on the tight side but fine for an urban switching layout.
Here's an idea to get you started (pardon the messy Paint):



Since you need to stay away from the fireplace, why not make that the staging space?
The Blue lines are scenic dividers that both disguise the return loops and allow for separate scenes (staging by fireplace and city approach or whatnot as you walk in the door from the house).
The main section of the layout would have trains coming from staging into the city through a hole in the scenic divider in the back left. This could be an interchage or just the mainline coming in (if the second, the the inside loop going down left and connecting to staging would become part of the industrial branch, with that side of staging representing a storage yard or an interchange).
You could have several industrial districts to service: inside lower left, left between red mains, center back, center front, right between loop tracks, inner lower right and outer right.
Do-able in HO, sure. Small 4-axle switchers, 40' cars, probably 4-6 car trains.
N would allow more urban structures & "atmosphere", longer trains pulling in & leaving, longer yards, smaller benchwork footprint (only need 2 1/2' - 3' lobes at the ends), etc.
So it really comes down to personal preference.

Either way, building it at 55" (HO) - 60" (N) would allow ample room under the layout for other things as well as just look darn-tootin' good, especially as you want to get that closed-in urban canyon feel.

Anyway, food for thought.
Hope this helps get the ideas going.

 

hi,
i like the way Fujiwara used your space. Not sure however if you like his loop to loop design, which is great if you would like to see your trains running for some quite some time as well.
If you prefer the Kingsbury Branch by Bill Denton or Paul Dolko's Baltimore Harbor District the emphasis would be more on switching. Add classification to the game and Russell Schoof's Free Haven Terminal comes into my mind.
BTW besides Russel's FHT, you can find it in 48 Top Notch Track Plans. there is an other much larger one by a french group. You can find both on Byron Henderson's weblog under "inspirational layouts".
Any way a lot is possible, the plan you like by John Armstrong is not in my library. It might be an idea to describe it.
Smile
Paul

 

I want something like that kingsbury branch line that has a a running main through it.
Really the Westport Terminal is probably the best example, though a larger layout. Generally my main focus has been to gather some ideas and various layouts by others so I can plagiarize what I like and run from what I don't.

 

hi Meledward,

it is time you start being more specific. As Fujiwara made clear you have ample space. It is not quite possible to want something like the Kingsbury branch and calling the Westport the best example. Let me explain.
Kingsbury is a street in the Chicago area, a brick canyon, no mainline in sight. Just switching cars, serving industries and warehouses in a maze of streets; every few yards an other roadcrossing. Part of the plan, as shown in 102 More Track Plans, could be done on the long side of your space. According to Fujiwara's drawing you have the needed 15 feet. Running mainline trains through this web of streets does not seem to be practical, in reality there would be to many safety hazzards and obstructions, liked parked vehicles on the main. The last issue was a daily burden.

Westport however has a main line, staging, a classification yard and switching districts. More the whole package. In your space the long side could accomodate the classification yard, switching districts could be added.
Two nice examples of the same scheme are both called Fee Haven Terminal. One by Russel Schoof in an amazing small space, 11 x 11 if i remember well. The FHT by a french group is much larger. What amazed me at first is the huge space dedicated to the classification yard in both designs.

Only by trying it out on the drawing board you will be making step forwards. A drawing like the one Fujiwara made does make my motor run. Yours should be running. Looking forward to see some drafts by you, or at least some more specific lists about your druthers and givens. And of course a response to the idea's presented by e.g. Fujiwara.
Smile
paul

 

No, I am still content gathering more ideas. I have some recommended reading to still do.
Fuji, has great ideas and from following his posts for sometime I greatly respect his input.

I already have drawn out a layout incorporating kingsbury branch in Paint, but its not really the point. I am still trying to absorb more information before proceeding.

I have a lot of space down here, but I am trying to be careful how I use it. Currently I have a CHAIR in the middle of a 24x13 room, a desk in a corner and the TV system on the wall. I like that. I have to be very careful to not over do the train. I never really planned on throwing up anything showing the room as all I really wanted were some ideas on where to look. And boy did Fuji drop me some great links.

Since I really haven't seen many layouts that were mostly a city/industry setting I was interested in seeing more and seeing if there was a reason. We compress railroads so much, and try and squeeze in 50-200miles worth of main line between two points. I felt I would rather focus on a setting, and urban area that would require less squeezing. I have some ideas on what I want to incorporate and am building my design scrapbook so I can have a better focus. I have in my mind about three Scenes (all urban). Getting a clear idea of how to develop each one and integrate it will take sometime.

I am awful at design, so, when I get a very clear and concise catalog of likes, dislikes, and images, then I can get specific help without wasting anymore time.

Till then, I think I may work on a 3x6 layout to make my kids happy. They are about to lynch me for no running train at the moment. My boy last night looked at me and said, Daddy "Why aren't you working on the trains. You work on trains please."

 

With Ho scale urban railroading you can go really tight on curves because all the locos will be small wheel base units. 040 for steam or just small diesels. you could even go to an earlier time period and use 4-4-0 locos like bachmann's beautiful sound equipped loco.

Get some bachmann easy track and some cheap loco's for the kids to play with.

John grant in the Ho scale section of trainboard has beautiful urban layout, go look you'll be impressed.

 

Have a look at the "Beer Line" in Great Model Railroads 2012, that should give you some ideas, too.

 

I think that, given everything we know to date, he should pick up a couple of GE 44-tonners for starters. I do hope he decides what scale he wants. It does matter...


p.s. Let us know when you get serious about the layout. I'll toss a design or two into the hat.

 

Instead of looking at peoples layouts you should also condider going to bing. of google.com and searching for city railroad or street tracks etc. and then click images to see old photos. I do a lot of train viewing that way.

 

hi,
Use your time before starting to build the larger layout with some good thinking.
Strategic planning and exploring alternatives.
Since i think a switching pike should be build pretty high, at armpit level and on shallow shelves, the fireplace is probably no space eater at all. Just build above it. Even a long bookshelf above the entertainment centre seems possible.
I can have millions of thoughts, it is up to you to find your way. Without you really jumping in, this thread has not much value. Have fun with your 6x3. Your son will love it.
Paul

 

Well a few things. The layout will likely be built using ideas behind Modular / Ntrack. Not true to Ntrack as it will really be Modular for home use.

Secondly the fireplace, is a beast. floor to ceiling stacked stone, irregular depths but as a generaly rule 1' from the back wall, course the hearth is 2.5' out. Secondly during excesive rain cycles it develops a leak. Generally down the flue. Twice over distant memory it has leaked from the mortar stone face. Therefor giving it room to breath is reasonable imho. I dont want it dripping on the layout. Finally I may actually get to working on it one day. Havent traced out the problem. Had it inspected about 3 years ago. I am not going up on the roof, thats where I cut off my DIY projects. I don't do 25' in the air above asphalt/concrete (chimmeny is over driveway).

Otherwise I appreciate the thoughts.

 

Since you cited Byron Henderson's website in your first post, perhaps you might want to consider commissioning him to design your layout? Byron could design it in phases ("start here, and continue with the rest when that's done"). For a layout of the size you're considering, I think a professional layout designer might be a wise investment. (you'll probably save money on all the things you don't buy and re-do.).
I wouldn't suggest that approach to everybody. I'm the type who really enjoys the planning as much as (or maybe more than) the building and operating. Some people would rather just build it and get to the "fun part" (whichever part that is for you). You said in the beginning that planning isn't your strong interest, so that's why I suggest farming it out.

 

Just a thought....If you are going to have an urban switching layout, why not skip a design which has loops..Why not a build an industrial area of a city and, using switchers, spot cars at various industries and or make up trains that a road engine then couples on to and pulls cars out of scene into a staging area where you can manually turn things around ( if you must) and return cars to scene as if new empties or loads for these industry spurs...Just shunting cars can be alot of fun, realistic ,and gives a feeling of real work being performed....Mark

 

meledward23:

You have about the same space that I built my Industrial Switching Layout (ISL) in.
It is not in a mid city area but is supposed to be just out side of one.
I had thought about making it more of in a city area, but the cost of lots of buildings would have meant less engines and cars.

Trains come in and go out from two staging areas both of which are at one end for convenience.
Though next to each other they come into the area from different directions.

I have built in lots of operations with in the industries then to staging as well as thru and interchange traffic.
If I had HO instead of N then most likely it would not have had as much interchange and staging traffic.
This would be ok, but I'm glad that I have many options for operations to keep it always interesting.

Just my 2 cents worth.