Layout Era Decisions and Policy for a Layout or Club

We have a club (H0 scale) layout and the era is from 1950 to 1960. The cars on the layout stay there all the time. About 400 are club cars and 200 are members' cars. Some of both types are not from the 1950-1960 era. Some members feel we should have a strict adherence to the era and others think it doesn't matter at all. Indeed we have cars from 1910 all the way to 2001.

The layout scenery, structures, etc. are strictly 1950-1960. In fact, there has been a lot of effort to ensure structures look as they did in 1950-1960 and not in some other time period. Stop signs, road markings, signal types, etc.

I would like to hear opinions about how to resolve this. It was suggested to operate a different era every six months. This will make the operators crazy from changing cars on the layout. But, labor is cheap in a club, you know? Utah Belt and V&O did modernize over the years but they kept everything within the same era.

As you can imagine, there are as many opinions as there are club members. I would like to get the TB member's input and experience from other clubs or layouts.

 

The club I belonged to in San Diego modeled the 1950's on the layout. However they didn't set a strict era. They didn't allow much mixing of era within one train but they did operate different eras at one time.

During actual operating sessions the equipment that was in the wrong era was taken off the layout or moved to storage staging on the layout (not live staging). They ran 3 era's for the op sessions, 1950's, 1970's/1980's (close enough), and Modern. Other than that it was up to the operator in charge.

Now that was the La Mesa Club, they had an extremely strict policy setup and were more mainline running orientated with yard switching.


Here at the Pikemasters we don't have a set era, everyone is free to pick as they choose. However, no matter what we do we won't be dead on era wise anywhey, as the presence of DRGW Narrow gauge means that our 70's and 80's equipment is incorrect. Its anyones game over on the East wall and thats fine, but on the west wall we do have something going.

Pretty much any rolling stock made after the 1960's (late 50's for that matter) won't be easily picked apart from anything made afterwards, Having a Rock Island covered hopper with a build date of the 60's and retirement of the 80's next to a BNSF high cube actually isn't that noticeable. Only the real rivet counters will notice. We have 5 people who operate on the West Wall regularly, 3 of them model the 70's/80's and 2 are modern modelers. We simply mix rolling stock freely. The only thing that changes too often is we will convert motive power between the modern/70's time at the engine facility. As of right now, one of the West wall engine facilitys is dominantly my Santa Fe stuff, however, come open house time, it will all be moved to my storage drawers and our Presidents BNSF stuff will move in. The rolling stock will stay the same and still look good behind the BNSF stuff.

We do occasionally have one guy who models the 1950's DRGW come over and operate on the west wall. He never leaves anything on the sidings but operating one train of older generation with the other stuff isn't bad at all.

There is no written policy of any of this at the club but it is a generally accepted idea. Mostly anything from 1960 onward will look well together, however putting a 1800's wooden boxcar in there is going to look extremely odd.......

 

I club I belong to allows anything that will run. I am not a fan of this concept because people bring in old equipment (such as older Life Like or TYCO) with the old NMRA style couplers or in poor condition and just have problem after problem and takes away time from other folks who want to run trains.

In a previous club I was involved with we had about 18 dedicated members. Among the 18, about 12-13 had layouts at home. We would meet every Wednesday night at somebody else's house (on a scheduled rotation, of course). If you couldn't host on a certain date, then it was your responsibility to work out a deal for a date swap or whatever. There were no club rules (only rules of the house), no dues, no officers, no rivet counting (unless asked) and a ton of work was accomplished on our home layouts. Different operating session every week! I found this format, in my opinion, to be far superior to any other formats I have been involved with.

As for myself, I would stick with the 1950's theme but allow that window to be stretched 20 years ahead. This should be something voted on at a meeting, obviously. This, I'm sure, would cause problems but that it is a part of club management.

 

Hello Flash,

I would try to turn the question around and ask the guys who think that mixing eras does not matter if they would mind if the post-1960 cars are being removed.

Maybe the answer is "of course not", problem resolved.
If they have good reason why they would like to see more modern stuff on the layout I would consider forming teams that are willing to "sponsor" a certain era: They would bring engines, cars, vehicles etc matching their time-period and set up the layout before an ops-session starts. This way everybody wins: They can operate their preferred era (at least once in a while), the burden to change is shared between the sponsor teams and people might even start to enjoy running trains from another timeframe than they are used to....

And if no group is willing to sponsor a certain era? No damage done, but no ops session for that time period will be held.

Just my two cents...
Cheers
Dirk

 

I have the same problem at home as I like too much different stuff-light steam and truss rodded cars, 1st generation diesels and 50's vehicles, etc. I elected to solve it by operating in a 100 year scrolling time span. There's no reason a club couldn't do the same, particularly if the Dirk's team idea is used. For my part I expect to get a lot of enjoyment out of experiencing the history of my railroad by changing equipment, details, and structures (interchangeable bases as needed) as often as I care to (tentatively about 10 years a month).

 

It's fine for individuals or small groups, but I think any club that tries to hold a substantial membership to a single decade is going to have trouble. I'm guessing this 'rule' was decided by a smallish core group - maybe the club founders.

It boils down to what the membership want really. Whether the rule is enforced or not, then in either case you'll probably lose some members, so it may be a case of finding a compromise that keeps most happy. (No matter what scheme is adopted there will always be a minimum of 10% or so who aren't happy, so don't try to keep everyone sweet.)

By way of compromise perhaps alternating sessions that are strict 1950-60 with free-for-alls would work.

 

My old club was strictly run what you brung and it was (more or less) a modular setup, so there was no strict era at all.


My current club is sceniced for a variety of eras depending on the scene, and the limited club rollingstock is generally late30s-early60s. But for the most part the members run whatever. I leave a few of my "modern" cars at the club and I regularly come in and find them mixed in with club cars with roof walks et al.

During ops sessions we're biased to smaller cars so we can fit as many of them as possible in yards and sidings and that will default us to an earlier era. Plus, at least so far there's been no interest in unit trains or passenger trains, but I don't think there's any strict era for ops either.

I actually like that my cars get mixed in with others, gives me a chance to spend time switching in the yard.

 

I would do it this way:
1. Locomotives and Freight Cars appropriate for the 1950-1960 timeframe are allowed to run and remain on the layout.
2. Locomotives and Freight Cars outside of that era can operate on designated running sessions but must be removed immediately upon conclusion of these sessions, no exceptions. (I suppose with enough staging you could have provisions for parking trains "off layout" to manage this, as an option)
3. Club president will determine schedule for era-limited versus free-for-all sessions and publish this schedule in a timely manner. Additional sessions can be requested per club rules to allow sufficient time for all members to enjoy operating their equipment, subject to resource availability. (i.e. a club officer and helpers to open, pre-prep, post-clean, and close the club facilities)
4. For public events, a rotating show manager (selected from club officers and sustaining members) will be designated to make the decision with regards to era-specific versus free-for-all for public running.

I think the founders of the club decided an era and I believe it should be adhered to for the most part. If the newer members want to bad enough, they could propose an era-transformation for a set time with the stipulation that everything is returned to original condition and that damages to property as a result (i.e. damaged rolling stock and/or scenery, for example) would have to be addressed.

I think this is a great question and one that many clubs face. I will be interested in the responses. I no longer belong to a club but often wondered how it could be handled. We didn't have enough scenery done to make the layout "era specific" really but I think generally we were shooting for a similar timeframe. But most guys place and removed cars in a single session....few left their rolling stock and fewer left locos. Another benefit is that we could run trains at the club outside of meeting times any time we wanted to....day or night. So there was always opportunity to run what we wanted.

If it came down to it and I had a choice, I would choose to adhere to a strict era, even though it means most of my stuff wouldn't make the cut. I would be ok having a handful of "club-era" stock to run. I'm probably in the minority on that though, and part of the issue is not driving away members so...I can see it being a tough call.

 

I don’t have a solution for your answer, but something to think about.

I am not involved in any form of railroading clubs.

This question being asked is a good example of one reason why I would not look any further into joining one, that along with other issues that I have seen when looking into them in the past. Mainly people taking things far too seriously, as it seems your club is doing now.

isn’t the club there for people to join and enjoy running trains, building layouts and models, and to interact with other like minded individuals? Does limiting the club layout to any specific area foster or abandon any of those ideals? In my opinion it abandons them.

The biggest turn off I have found with any sort of club from automotive to Zscale modeling is that some of the members, usually the founders, have ego's the size of the Empire State Building and they need to make sure that whatever happens with the group pleases and strokes their ego.

What would the point be in limiting the era? To alienate little Johnny and his brand new SD90? Or would it be to gain more interest from all members?

As someone stated before. "You cannot please all the people all the time."

Its sounds like you all may be taking things too seriously and perhaps it needs to be determined during a group meeting, perhaps everyone can answer some questions in regards to why they joined, what they enjoy working on, how they see the layout in X years, etc. Get the people in the group to think about their goals, compare them to each others and chances are you all will be able to make a decision that works for the majority of the members.

 

Went through some of this on my own layout. The era I picked was 1957-1967. During this period there were still some wood-sheath cars, some with stem-winder brake wheels mixed with 89 ft. TOFC cars and box cars without running boards. MOW cars and a mix of light weight and standard passenger cars were also part of the rolling stock.

Then, there were the 120 or so Class 1 railroads whose cars could show up all over the country. Today there are what, basically 10-12 railroads and a bunch of X-line cars making up probably 90% of the cars in a typical freight? And the cars, then mostly 40 footers and a few 50 footers (save for the TOFC and auto-carriers). Today? Bunches of 60/70/80/90 foot cars. And unless your room is the size of a gymnasium, a lot of 40 footers is going to look a lot more like a long train than an equal length train of 89 ft. enclosed auto racks.

Then there's what I call "texture." In the 50's & 60's tracks were just about everywhere. Service was still provided to small industries/businesses that had short sidings and maybe got 5 - 10 cars in a year. Branch lines provided service to grain silos or packing sheds located perhaps 5 or 6 miles away from the main line (if it was in fact). There were a multitude of sheds and shelters owned by the railroads, mostly wood (and deteriorating) painted the various roads' colors. But, every now and again here was a brand new concrete block, red brick, or even an early variant of the metal buildings now so common.

And, o.k. it was the era I grew up in and have so many fond memories of but it was also when railroads touched almost everyones' life in ways that the modern roads just don't. So keep the base era where it is. It was only after inflation took hold in the 1970's that changes of any degree became common, so really you could say that your era is 1950's/60's/early 70's.

 

I read all this. I'm not in a club so I've not axe to grind. I think Doug A. has hit upon the best answer. Jim:tb-biggrin:

 

Well, I think the "you can't please all the people all the time" is the reason you DO focus on an era. If you try to accomodate everyone in the club, it could be that the people that came to this club in the first place--as a result of the founders adherence to trying to develop a credible timeframe and resulting set of structures, signals, vehicles, locos, and rolling stock--become disenchanted with an incongruous theme.

It's one thing if you are trying to change things up midstream and tell people "my way or the highway". It's quite another if the "way" was established from the git-go and members are ignoring the rules and defying the sanctity of the club's goals.

I think "taking it too seriously" is not really a fair take...if I'm a paying member of a club and I've invested a lot of time and money into developing a quality model railroad then I do take pride in a job well done and pride that I have financially supported the club to acheive that end. In that respect, it IS serious, since MY enjoyment comes from creating a feasible miniature world and running trains that reinforce that level of realism. There is nothing wrong with "seriously" trying to reproduce a time and setting, if that was the goal set out by the founders and/or the current leadership and sustaining members. As I said, I would MUCH prefer that, even compared to my own personal whims. I think that if you join a club, it's a "when in Rome" kinda deal....do as the Romans do.

And to Jerry, I'm not at all suggesting that your ideas don't have merit...there are PLENTY of clubs out there that operate just as you would like....freely running whatever and building a full steam-era engine facility right next to a modern intermodal yard. If that's the goal...ROCK ON! The club I belonged to would happily run steam and modern side by side. It was fun, and I enjoyed it. There are plenty of ways to have fun in this great hobby. But if I started a club, it would have some level of focus...that's just what interests me. I might have 2 members in my club and it might fold up. But I would stick to my guns. I would probably choose something like late 80's plus or minus 10 years. That way we could run from Rock Island/Frisco/Mopac to post mega-mergers, and probably be able to pull off somewhat believable scenery/era as long as we stayed away from concrete ties and don't build any Starbucks. ;-)

 

I think it is the best so far. It is specific, too.

I appreciate all the input. I don't know what the club will do. I have been considering all aspects of this and here is some more information:

We have three ops sessions a month.

We have eight fun run sessions a month. (You bring your trains and run whatever you want.)

Eventually, all rolling stock on the layout is owned by the club and is there permanently. (At this time we have some permanent "loaners" and those are the ones out of era.)

Those facts tend to have me conclude that I would require era cars only on the layout as they are owned by the club. Non-era private cars should be removed when the owner is not there.

 

I like Doug's approach. That way when the public is viewing they see a unified club, working towards a common goal. But the guys who are modern modellers can bring their stuff on the "Run What You Brung" events and still photograph them on scenes they may have helped build.

 

It really gets down to the ethos of the club.

I would recommend that once you determine this that you insist it get written into the bylaws and that it's plainly stated in any membership brochures.

 

Seems that if people want to operate a layout according to a specific time period and line then it should all be in character for that.

But if there are off nights when people can play, and if I was a member of that club, I'd want to be able to bring my European stuff to run some laps on the mains. Sure it wouldn't be "correct" but it's fun to see what people have squirreled away in their houses.

There is a tendency to have people take over and want to dictate what the rules are.

Open houses:
Oh yeah, We think people will be impressed by how prototype our models are, but sneak a thomas tank in oo scale onto the layout and you'll find out quickly what works. Or else a cheap engine with a smoke generator never fails either. Non- model railroaders aren't interested, don't notice those prototype details, and model railroader visitors are more interested in the overall look.

Come to think of it your gotter run a Harry Potter train too. (spoken in Hagrid voice)

 

If you are regularly open to the public, I think Thomas is almost a requirement.

Heck, at my club, out of era stuff is nothing. We're now building the clearances on the mains to support running On30 equipment for the handful of people that have some to run.


On the other hand, Thomas would look dumb on say The La Mesa club layout. People walk in and expect it to be realistic, because it's a museum and they get likely orders of magnitude more visitors than your average club, so being specific about what you run can work.