After conducting research on several kitbashing projects this weekend, I was wondering, what happened to the brass in n scale. Halmark is gone, Key is no longer doing anything in N scale, yet I can blow 3-6 thousand on an O scale loco from them, there are several companies doing things in HO scale, but nothing in N scale for the last 4-5 years. As a steam guy, the offerings in plastic meet some needs, but not all and I usually result in kitbashing. Thankfully I've been able to get my hands on some of Key's past endeavors to fill my roster. Is brass dead in our scale? Do I have to wait another 10 years to get an MT-4 in plastic, or possibly an AC-4 or AC-5? How about a 20th Century Limited? If it is the running characteristics, all of my brass locos far outshine my plastic locos for noise and quality.
It seems that sales in N scale never took off for brass locomotives and rolling stock as they have in other scales. The small number of folks who bought really appreciated the specific prototypes modeled but they never made up a large enough number so that it was not profitable for the importers to keep bringing in N scale products.
I would have to agree with Russell, on that fact. Even the used pieces that are out there to be found are of mega bucks due to the lack of supply. The economy sure didn't help in N and HO scales either. Good luck in finding what you want; it's out there but numbers are sure thin Glen
Brass in N scale has a useful niche, but I see two basic issues: availability of similar plastic models and quality/usefulness of the brass models. Once a well done plastic model is made (FT's anyone? ATSF Superchief??) the expensive brass models have little value. I know, at one point I owned 18 brass FT's by Hallmark (figured NOBODY would EVER make them in plastic, right? Hello MT and I/M...? This makes brass a more useful solution for more unique prototypes, perhaps steam or more unusual diesels, ones not likely to be manufactured by the mass production sources. The second (and bigger) part of the problem is getting N scale brass to work well. I do own and operate a number of brass steam locos, but it is definitely a work of love....often it takes remotoring, tinkering, and with the onslaught of DCC, a dedication beyond the willingness of most people to make them work and look right. So we have lovely looking shells on mediocre mechanisms that require a lot of work and investment to be made adequate. IMHO, there still is a market, but the expectations are that the stuff should look great and run run out of the box. Who wants to spend the kind of money brass commands if it won't run as well as plastic or lend itself to a simple DCC conversion? Particularly with steam, I wish we could get brass (or other small production-appropriate) superstructures over commercial, mass-produced chassis...we do have a number of well performing mechanisms in a wide range of wheel arrangements, many reasonably priced. I can see several 4-8-2's on the B-man heavy mechanism; several 2-8-2's on the Kato, other pacifics on the MP chasis, consolidations, mallets, etc... Well, I should keep on dreamin' Regards, Otto
The brass guys never made what we wanted. Double track bridges in plenty, single track scarce. SP plow appears once in a decade on EBay, lots of CSX (?). May they rot!
I'm kinda (well, sorta) surprised that there hasn't been any kind of hybrid N scale limited steam, like what the HOn3 guys are getting from Blackstone and MMI. The quality of brass with the great running that is out of this world to see.. I recommend none of you see a Blackstone K-27 run.. It will hurt. Alot. :tb-biggrin:
Agreed that the economy makes a big difference. Some of the brass runs are now reported to be as little as 20 or less. The prices certainly seem to reflect that. I also agree with Tony Burzio. Nobody ever seemed to figure out what the N guys wanted. Then again, I recall some "sure things" being cancelled. In all scales, remember having to have the reservation in by a certain date, and waiting and waiting and waiting. And maybe the engine/car would be released. And maybe not. Art in CA I've seen those things run. But it might hurt me more to buy 3-4 of those Mudhens.
Even if the economy were better, I think N scale brass would still be in the same state as it's currently in. I believe the main factor is technology...First off, manufacturing technology has sort of rendered the detail expected in brass to be obsolete. The entire loco doesn't have to be made of brass, only the detailed parts that matter. The other aspect of technology is DCC. People would pay $$$ for brass and people would pay $$$ for DCC (sound included), but not necessarily for both. It seems in this day and age, people would rather pay the big bucks for a plastic DCC/sound loco than a brass loco without it.
It's really simple. It doesn't cost that much more to build an O scale model than an N scale model yet, an O scale model is easier to build. A mechanism that runs good is easier to create, it doesn't require the tight tollerances of N scale and has enough heft that pickup is certainly not an issue. Add to that, O scalers are used to and willing to pay multiple thousands of dollars for a loco, heck some plastic loco's are over a grand. Would you as a manufaturer rather spend $500 to make a loco that sell's for $1000 or spend $7-800 on a loco that sells for $3000. The profit magins are much better in O scale and the complaints are fewer. Why bother with whiney N scalers when you can crank out O and make double the profit and garuntee to sell out the run.
For me, it is the price. Why should I pay a fortune for an Overland model of a New Haven engine that is not even equipped with DCC?? I can spend my Euro's only once.
This comes up every so often....... The reason is that N scalers, by and large, want the world for next to nothing, or as the one of the head guys at Overland told me, "they want the high end brass at Walmart prices. This is why Overland left N scale". I own several brass locomotives, mostly Hallmark ATSF 4-8-4's. And they run circles around the Kato GS-4. Key, several years ago, decided to make an new run of 4-8-4's and Texas types, took my deposit and diasappeared. Finally got my deposit back, 5 years later. They cited insufficient orders to proceed. The truth is quality is always going to cost more, that is a fundamental business rule. Why does a Kato diesel cost more than a LifeLike diesel? The same is true why brass would cost more than plastic. It is the quality factor. But in N scale, there are rampagers who rip Walthers apart because a sight glass is missing on a GP38-2 locomotive. Everything gets ripped apart for one reason or another. Sometimes it is valid, most the time is is not. There is a reason N scale is a second tier scale, and it has noting to do with size or complexities, it has everything to do with the attitude of most N scalers. The Walmart pricing does not work with the quality expectation. Look at any hopper today versus one form the early or mid 1990's, now with the metal etched walkways etc versus the molded on walkways etc. That is why they cost $25 instead of $12. You want cheap, just don't complain about the quality.
I only own 1 piece of brass. The reason I bought my OMI Little Joe was simply because it will more than likely be the only time that loco was produced in N scale. I bought it on the pre order price for $560 and have seem them go on ebay for up to $1,400. I have only ran it twice down the test track. Other than that it spends its time in my display case or in the engine facility on the United Northwest Model RR club.
I was one of these people, I will admit it. Yes the Life Like GP 38-2 would have worked better for a project I was doing as it had the anti climber pilots and the shorter fuel tank, which my protype had, but it was the lack of one KEY identifying feauture (the water sight glass on the engineers side) that made me purchase the Atlas version instead.
Sorry, but this is too easy. Overland produces expensive items and not everyone can afford those. I have to choose between one (DC) Overland model or 5 (DCC) Atlas engines. Since Atlas produces fine models for a good price, I choose for Atlas. I have bought the Bachmann 44tonner because it's also a nice engine for a nice price. Yes, Overland would produce a far more detailed engine, but I can't pay for it so I accept the less detailed model. I don't complain about the quality. I am happy with the quality in plastic models. And with their prices. Yes, the prices are going up, but so is quality. And for some people, those higher prices can become a problem. Maybe the N scale market is just too small for brass. In HO, you have more modellers, so the chance that there are enough HO modellers with a big wallet who want to pay high prices for their models, is bigger.
I would like to see more hybrids being done between brass and plastic. The brass detail is still very high quaility when compared to most plastic models. I've also seen where Samhongsa is no longer in business, there is a group of former employees that opened their own shop, but I think the only game in town now may be Boo-rim. I just wanted to get everyones 2 cents. Now will a plastic manufacturer out there build some SP steam locomotives, say a 2-10-2 F-5, an MT-4/5, or a 4-10-2.
Now that Fox Valley has announced their forthcoming Milwaukee Road ribbie bay window cabooses, I am thinking of parting with my ten OMI NIB Milw rib bay windows... Gotta have a bunch of those FVM, so gotta get some money! Boxcab E50
Speaking of FVM, their Hiawatha is something that N scalers could have only expected in brass a few years ago with better detailing and running qualities than that brass would have had at a fraction of the price, likewise I'm sure for their upcoming GP60M A and B units, another engine rare enough that the only prospect of getting one would have been brass. With technological advances bringing down the cost complexity of producing tooling for plastic models could we see more of what once would have been done in limited run brass being done in limited run plastic if manufacturers don't need production runs of tens of thousands over many years to recoup tooling costs. My bet is that manufacturers like FVM will become N scale's new Overland and Hallmark.
