It could be just me but I've been noticing that the numbers seem to suggest that N Scale might be more popular than HO. What brings me to say that is we read from time to time why HO seems to draw the attention of the manufacturers before they will think if HO to be the larger share of the market. Well if Forums are any indication of the Hobby Populous; around here which is one of the best Multi Scale Venues on the net. N Scale folks would appear to out number the HO folks hands down on a daily basis. And I have been watching this for about three months now. It reflects a ratio of about 40 - 6; and the first number isn't HO it's "N". So I would presume that this is a small sample of the net in general. Why aren't we N Scalers carrying as much support from the manufacturers. The numbers might suggest that the hobby interest is shifting. And granted manufacturers are paying better attention to N Scale; and hugh strides are being made. And I appreciate them immensely. But should we maybe rethink our opinions that; N Scale is still trailing HO down/up the tracks????? What are your thoughts on this ???
I don't know. It still seems the manufacturers sell more HO than N. That is just what I have personally observed at different shops and train shows. Perhaps there are not as many of the HO modelers that frequent internet sites.
Well, I think because N was a smaller share of the market the modelers had to be more vocal in getting what they want. I think the internet was a sounding board for people in N to come together. HO gets what it wants and as a general rule, there is no need or perhaps not as great a need to ask. I think Z is very much like early N. A few of us are vocal and help to get the word out and promote/find what it is people want/need/can't find.
There is no question that N is a scale that has come into its own in the past several years. There is more product, good and pleasing product, and that should continue for the foreseeable future, especially as living spaces continue their inevitable shrinking as the years go on. I wouldn't put too much stock in any informal impressions or anecdotal information suggesting that N model users outnumber HO except that they may do so in thread traffic on one or more fora. In the ones I frequent, HO still holds a decisive edge in terms of shear volume for questions from newbies and from those needing advice who are seasoned modellers. I tend to remark on questions or posted decisions from those moving from HO to N, and there have been quite a few. However, I seem to see a lot more from N scalers wanting to move up to HO, sometimes because they can, or they feel they must because they have grown impatient waiting for the right models to come to market. I think the manufacturers ignore, or underfund, one scale in favour of another at their peril over the long term. In my view, N scale is overdue, and should be given a lot of R&D coins over the next four or five years to give the scale the rocket assist it needs.
I think it's been a gradual take over. N Scale is just very popular for obvious reason -- more in less space. Plus to me the best detail is in N Scale. Dunno but N Scale just seems more popular now. Manufactures will slowly gravitate to being more N Scale sensitive.
Well, the quickest gauge would be to pick up the Walther's Catalog... The problem with the internet is that a number of people in general are still not on the web, and while the absolute number of internet users has gone up, there is a contingency within that group who are not yet very sauvy in using the internet - much less the computer - but they have both. Guess what age group most of those people who are in the "Not yet comfortable with the internet" category... I've seen a lot of scale exposure that did not exist years ago - G, S, O; it's not just N. Traffic on any website is easily misleading. If you went by traffic numbers on this website alone, you might be led to the conclusion that Z is the second most popular modeling scale. The thing about the internet is it allows people with very specific interests - not just model trains, not just N scale, but Particular groups to formulate - such as Narrow Gauge N Scale pacific Northwest timber...and you have the historical societies as well. In short, within that community, what is most popular is only due to the trend by that group. Trainboard has been predominantly N scale since the beginning - but it makes sense... The younger generation has been the quicker to grapple the internet since 2000, and the younger generation is also more inclined to be in a smaller scale - based on that alone, I would presume you will find a wider N scale prevelence. I've seen the scale migration myself, there's three people back in my old club who moved out of N in favor of HO, and one who now models predominantly G because even HO is too small. I do know two people who have migrated to N or Z. And I know people selling it all off in preparation for the bigger layout up above... Last numbers I saw on Model Railroad Hobbyist [and it was a large study they did over there, 4 figures/five figure response rate, if I remember right] the ratios have been holding steady regardless...Maybe a slight increase in the total number of N scalers, but overall, the numbers hold steady. None of these numbers should be any concern to you or me, the astute modeler, though because we are do not choose how we practice our hobby based upon the status quo, RIGHT??? Because if we were, then we'd all be modeling one of the big Four in HO...or we wouldn't even be playing with our little toy trains [this is what the Status Quo calls our hobby, afterall! - and They are Toy trains, to be honest!] at all in the first place, now WOULD WE???
Believe that you should probably pay attention to the number of new items introduced per each scale. The manufacturers that cater to such a small hobby as model railroading have to be really astute. I've no doubt that such manufacturers and those who do the surveys attempt to be as accurate as possible. And, as mentioned in an earlier post, the "comfort" level of the various age groups with the computer and the internet - and subsequent scale preferences among the different age groups is also a very relevant indicator as to the number of postings per scale. My observation (definitely subject to challenge) is the older and richer - the larger the scale. Also, Trainboard is rather unique in that appears to be quite open to all scales and skill levels. The "what an idiot..." syndrome is very, very rare here and when it does occur, the resulting "piling on" of the offender is normally immediate, massive, and effective.
Since I still don't have a layout room yet, my D&H collection is just growing and sitting in storage. Now if I just use my D&H collection as a gauge in this topic, my "HO Scale" collection is still the largest; but, "N Scale" is slowing growing to the same size. My "O Scale", "S Scale", and "Z Scale" collections are not even close in size; but, they do grow. So, I would say given this that HO & N are slowing becoming equal. Now if I can just win Power Ball that layout room will grow the other three walls it needs... :tb-rolleyes: :tb-rolleyes: :tb-rolleyes: :tb-rolleyes:
Interesting discussion this! Most members on this forum seem to deal in US outline N. Some of you will know already that I do British outline N, and the main makers are Hornby and Bachmann in OO/HO with Farish (owned by Bachmann) in N. Dapol do a lot in ready to run N and some OO kits. What Hornby do in OO one year seems to be issued in N from Dapol the following year, though the two firms are not at all related. What Bachmann do in OO this year, they scale down and issue as Farish N next year. Of course, it doesn't always work according to plan! Regards, Pete Davies
I would have to agree with Benny. The Walthers catalog still offers more HO then N. With our generation we are moving into smaller homes and the smaller scale just seems to fit in. But HO still has the market share compared to N.
Perhaps your numbers are reflecting many N Scalers are busy posting on the forums, while the HO folks are working on/operating their layouts Duane Goodman
I have to agree with Benny and have thought that for quite a while. Being computer savvy is being willing to accept change. Most N scalers have at some point changed from HO to N. I wonder if that has anything to do with the number of N scalers on the net?
I'm not certain we can really say this as truth. It's not true in my case. I came over from years of Lionel/American Flyer.This is my 38th year in N- I know or have known many who were entry level N scalers. And watching as folks join us here, this seems like an increasing trend the past decade or so. Boxcab E50
Its my observation that N scale is coming up in the world, and rightfully so. I have seen some great N scale layouts the last 10 years. In fact, I am getting ready to start on my new trainroom. It will be 3 times the size of my former Albemarle Division and I considered converting to "N". I have opted not to, but because and ONLY BECAUSE I have too much invested in HO equipment, buildings, and details. All of modeling "comfort zone" is in HO and for this next layout, I do not want spend time on any learning curves and equipment disposal/aquisitions in transitioning to a new scale. I want to get going on that layout. But N has too many advantages I see. Especially with prototypical train make ups and space utilization. N is a good scale. Do not know if it is "as popular" as HO, but "my observation" is there is nothing stopping it and I believe the advantages of N will eventually. All scales have their attractions.
I am not to particular about being up to prototype so I don't look for certain cars... but the big difference I noticed between HO and N is the vehicle selection and details in the scales. I've noticed that HO has alot more than N... but I could be wrong and if that so I'm still looking for a variety of N scale vehicles. Some may say "So what??" but for me the scenes outside of the railroad are just as important as the railroad itself. My 2 cents. Cheers
One has to be very cautious in how they interpret what they see in the way of populations on various forums. This particular forum is uniquely N dominated and by no means representative of the situation that prevails across most other forums on the Internet, which tend to be heavily HO dominated. The N-scale presence on the Internet is even more biased by the fact that the average N-scaler tends to be significantly younger than the typical HO hobbyist and thereby much more likely to be computer savy. Older model railroaders, who are far more likely to be into HO, are dramatically under represented on Internet forums relative to their actual numbers. Addressing the question about the size of the N-scale community relative to that of HO more directly, there was a mention about a year ago in Model Railroader magazine that N-scaler numbers had recently reached the point of being just about one half that of HO modelers (although most polls suggest a lesser percentage). NYW&B
I think to a degree, it has little to do with the trains, and more to do with WHERE people have to place a layout. More people are in condos and apartments, and fewer houses (at least around here) have a basement. In those situations, the smaller gauges have an advantage....so I think N and Z are growing faster, but I don't think they are more popular....I'm pretty sure there are quite a few more HOers out there. There's definitely more HO stuff available. But the N scale stuff has gotten a lot better...enough so that it's no longer a "toy", and as has been pointed out, that gives some real operational opportunities. In our town there are 2 clubs.....both modular, one HO and one N (the HO club also dabbles in O and G). We both set up in the local mall on the courtyards, but if the HOers try to run a 100 car train, the engines are chasing the caboose. Both clubs use a 2X4 ft module....you can do a reasonable industry on an N scale module, even with 3 mains and a mountain line (NTRAK)....that gives the N scalers 2 advantages...more track and more scenic opportunities, which result in a "better" display.
