First I would like to say that I have a very limited knowledge on this hobby, so I need your help - IF YOU HAVE ENOUGH TIME - in figuring out how to connect all the gizmo's I have to run my system in a way it suppose to run. I have the following Digitrax items: 2 units of Zephyr One unit of DB150 One unite UR92 One unite of DT402D Throttle One unit of UP5 One unit of DS64 I have read all the manuals over and over and the more I read the more I get confused. I sent several emails to Digitrax, but they are very miser in helping and giving a full detail of instructions. So, here I am asking you for your kind help to let me know how to connect all these together. I would like the DB150 to be my command units and the 2 Zephyrs as additional throttles. I have 4 turnouts that I would like to control them for now, and in the future I would like to add more. So, Please only if you have any spare time to give me some kind of "Step by Step for DUMMIES" on how to connect all these together. Thank you so much. Mo
Okay... since no one has posted a response to this.. I'll take a stab at it. First you mentioned you wanted the DB150 to control the 2 Zephyrs which seems the good thing to do. Since this is a "For Dummies" answer.. I'll take a couple steps back... First.. Since you posted in the N Scale Group, I'm assuming you do N scale. Second: The DB150 is likely powerful enough to power to run your entire railroad. (it will handle 25-30+ N scale engines as long as no sound is involved). Third: As I recall the DB150 as a command station can only handle 28 "Things". -- "Things" include: Locomotives, Switches, and Throttles. -- The Super Chief will handle 128 Things-- Not trying to sell you something bigger.. just making a comment .... Next.. Depending on how big your layout is and how it's built.. You can run the entire railroad off the DB150 and use the Zephyrs as throttles... OR... You can split your railroad up into "Blocks" and power each block with the DB150 and the 2 Zephyrs.. If your railroad is big enough or built in a way that it's easy to split.. I would say DO IT!! -- The biggest benefit is the 3 sections are indipendend of each when it comes to shorts. (A short in one section doesn't effect the other 2 sections and trains keep running). So we'll get into blocks now.. In your case, you would want to split your railroad into 3 electrical blocks - 1 for each Zephyr, and 1 for the DB150. (The Split needs to be complete. Bus wire and rail. -- This is VERY IMPORTANT.) Incase you don't know.. the Zephyr does not give as much power as the DB150.. So it would make sense to make your Block for the DB150 larger than each of the 2 blocks for the 2 Zephyr(s). May I suggest splitting your railroad in half, then splitting one of the halfs in half. (so 1/2=DB150, 1/4= Zephyr1, 1/4=Zephyr2) .. We'll leave it at that while I break out my Zephyr manual to figure out how to setup a Zephyr as a booster..
Okay... Part 2 First a correction from my first post.. The DB150 can handle 22 "Things" not 28. So.. once you setup your 2 zephyrs as throttles that makes 20. Once you plug in your DT400D, that makes 19 "Things" you can use. (Add the 4 switches = 15 "Things" -- Locomotives).. You get the idea. Next.. What to do with the Zephyrs..... I looked at some photos of your layout.. If you are NOT going to split into 3 blocks.. may I suggest trading in your 2 Zephyrs for 2 or 3 UT4s (Utility Throttles). If you don't use the Zephyrs for power, then they are simply (2) $200.00 Utility Throttles with extra (useless) buttons.. (Utility Throttles are $129.99 for Radio or 79.99 non Radio.. ) (we're talking MSRPs here)... If you are going to use the Zephyrs for power then you will need to convert both of them to boosters. Heres how to do it.. (I tried it on mine and it worked..) Wait 1/2 to 1 second between each key you press. -- Okay here it goes.. 1: Power it up. -- I had the Forward/Reverse set to Brake: 2: Press the "PROGRAM" Key 3: Press the "SWITCH" Key 4: Press the "2" Key 5: Press "c - / CV-WR" Key (Right of the "0" Key) 6: (Wait 1 second) Watch the screen go crazy.. don't worry.. 7: Press "EXIT" Key The screen should now say "-br-" -- Don't you wish the Digitrax manual was that simple ... You need to do this with each Zephyr.. If you want to undo it.. Do the following. 1: Power it up. -- I had the Forward/Reverse set to Brake: 2: Press the "PROGRAM" Key 3: Press the "SWITCH" Key 4: Press the "2" Key 5: Press "t + / CV-RD" Key (Left of the "0" Key) 6: (Wait 1 second) Watch the screen go crazy.. don't worry.. 7: Press "EXIT" Key I'll let you digest that for now...
Learmoia; Bravo on those two post. Well explained and simple as could be. Now how are you going to follow that up; but by the knowledge displayed there I sure it will be interesting. Thanks I don't use Digitrax but you could sure stand to help them rewrite there Manuals. Like DCC for Dummies maybe.:thumbs_up::tb-wink:
I agree with the replacement of the Zephyrs with UT4 throttles, plus a few UP5's for the UT4's to plug in to. I run an entire N scale layout with a single Zephyr and a single UT4, and a pair of UP5's for the UT4 to plug into. If you wanted wireless, you could go with a single UP5 and a pair of UT4R's. It really looks like you're making it harder than it needs to be.
I'm with ya there Chaya. DC is so much simplier. Yea...yea !! I hear them DCCers now "But you can do so much more with DCC !" Let me put it this way. You can run trains on DCC...I can run trains on DC. It's all I want to do. Life is good...carry on...LOL. :tb-cool: *didnt mean to hijaack this thread. DC vs DCC is a whole other thread. I did read with interest the reply. For what its worth...it all sounded ...ummm...sound. .
Concerning the 22 "things" that the DB150 can handle, that's 22 "slots" the command station has which means that it can keep track of 22 locomotive addresses at one time(that does not mean you are limited to 22 locomotives, just 22 running or in consists at one time, and the ones that are in consists do not HAVE to take up slots, but that is a topic for another post). The 22 slot limit has no direct effect on the number of throttles you can use(there actually is no preset limit), but your not likely to use more throttles than locomotives. The 22 slot limit also has no effect on the number of turnouts you can control. With the DB150's 22 slot limit, you could have 22 throttles controlling 22 locomotives and literally hundreds of switches. Also, while I would not use a Zephyr as just a throttle, the throttle portion of the Zephyr is more than a Utility throttle because you can control turnouts from the Zephyr's throttle but you can not with the utility throttles. Something else I would like to point out after looking at your layout pictures is the Zephyr can be configured as an auto-reversing boostert to handle the reversing section on your layout. The Zephyr has a 12 slot limit(it is advertised as 10, but in practice is 12). If the 12 slot limit is enough, I would consider using one of the Zephyrs as the command station because the DB150 does not have a separate program track output.
wow i just gave my self a headache reading this topic....... I'll take two aspirin and try again tomorrow:tb-hissyfit:
You have over done your needs for the layout. Two Zephyrs and a DB150 is the equivalent of 3 DCC controllers. You only need one to run you layout. The DS64 is to control the turnout motors. If you have turnouts you want to control via DCC, you would use this. It will work with your Kato Unitrak turnouts. It has Loconet Ports and power requirements. It can be powered by the track, powered by the AUX connections or with a DC plug supply like a wall-wort. Anyway, the directions with the DS64 do illustrate how to hook up Kato turnouts with the internal switch motors. The UR92 it hooked up to the controller using the Loconet cabling and with a power supply or track power. It sends out the signal to to any of the DT402R wireless throttles. The UP5 also is connected via Loconet. It acts as the throttle interface to the layout. So all you need to get things up and working are a few power supplies, one of the Zephyr controllers, the UP5, Loconet cables to start with and connect that to your layout. This will let you run trains. The DS64 can be added in later when you get used to DCC and desired throttle controlled turnouts. How you interface to the existing DC layout still needs to be looked at, but in general, all you need to do is turn on all of the DC blocks. If you have a reversing section, that needs special handling. If they are on the existing layout using the Atlas electrical blocks, I am not sure whether that will work straight away. You may need to look at an autoreverser, or maybe the DB150 can be configured to be an autoreverser. But use one of the Zephyrs as the controller and have CV readback ability on the programming track, the DB150 does not have this functionality. It also has the built in throttle. That and the UP5 would allow two additional throttles to plug in. In reality, while pretty cool, the wireless throttle is a bit of over kill for your layout. It is nice to have if you are a member of a club that has adopted the wireless throttles. I hope this helps.
I used to be in the same "I'll stick with straight DC" boat as several people have posted, but I jumped ship awhile ago. I'm all for DCC now. I will admit it takes time to get the hang of DCC, but after you start understanding the concept and working with the hardware, DCC is the way to go. Layout wiring with DCC is completely different than wiring a layout with DC. You don't have to worry about all the blocks, just keep feeding power to the rails. If you want a section of trackwork to have the ability to park engines, put a gap in the rail and use a toggle switch to control power feed. I will admit wiring up some of the older engines can be a PAIN IN THE A**! But after you have converted several you get the hang of it. And most new engines released are now DCC ready, with drop in decoders available. Look at the the Con-Cor 2-10-2. Take the tender body off, plug in a decoder, replace tender body, program address and GO! The engine runs like a watch and pulls big trains. I have found that the best way to get introduced to DCC, is to run on a layout that is DCC controlled. And be able to ask questions of somebody who knows more than you do about DCC in general.
Thank you so much Hi, From the bottom of heart thank you so much for taking time to help. I deeply appreciate this. You have a very good way explaining and I wish Digitrax would pay you to rewrite their manuals. My story for having 2 Zephyrs and a DB150 is a long one and I will write about it later. I agree with you to switch them the 2 Zephyrs for 2 U4 throttle, but for now I like to work with whatever I have. I agree with you to divide my layout to more than one section because whenever I have a problem with one engine the whole layout goes in a complete stand. My old N-18 layout used to be divided into sections but when I switched to DCC i just made the whole thing just one. I have done all the above steps following the manuals and still I have a problem with it, they work at one minute then for some reason it stops for a while and whatever I do they would not start. Suddenly it starts working again. Please continue your instructions and I am sure it will be very useful not just for me but it will be a very good reference and guide for others too. While continuing your "step by step for dummies" I have these questions: 1. I wired DS64 to my 4 turnout that I am going to use now, and for the power I wired it directly to the bus wires directly. Is that OK or I should take the power from the tracks? 2. I don't know how to program the DS64 and how to run it? 3. How daisy chain between all these unit should be connect and in which order? what I mean the loco net wires should go first from where to where, and then from the next where to which where and on? 4. How to divide my layout into different blocks so I would avoid the problem of my whole layout goes in a complete stop when I have a problem with one loco? As I mentioned earlier my knowledge of this hobby is to its minimum, I don't know what other questions I should ask, so please only "IF YOU HAVE TIME" let me know what else am I suppose to do. I do have a lot of books on this hobby and I do some search on the Internet, and the more I go deep into this the more I realize that I don't know much and the more I get more confused. Sometime I really think this hobby is not for me and I should quit. On the other hand I love it and I have spent money and so much time on it that it would be a total waste for me to quit now. At times I see a light coming through the tunnel, and later on I realize that the light is coming from a train coming towards me in a full speed. Again thank you so much for your kind help. God/Universe bless your heart and I wish you all the best. Mo
Hi! The simplest thing is to sell your Digitrax equipment on EBay and get an NCE system. No manuals, just play trains!
Mo... Lets hold off on the DS64 for now.. (We're on Step 3.. thats Step 15) The next step (assuming you want to break the layout up into 3 blocks).. Is to figure out the easiest way to break it up. If you have a diagram of your layout (or planned layout).. Please post it, and we'll work from that.. I looked at the N-18 plan and it looked like it was common rail wired.. (Using one insulated rail joiner and one metal one) at section split. In DCC it's best to have insulated rail joiners on both rails at the points where you want to make your split. I can describe this better in diagram form.. So we'll get into it when I have more time to type.. When hooking up the loconet cables, it does not matter what order the components are hooked up. One thing that is important (if your making your own loconet cables) is to make sure the male connectors are oriented correctly. As I recall, if you purchase cables from the local big box hardware store, they will not work as built. One end of the cable needs to be reversed. (We'll get to that.) Also.. note.. that once make the program change on the Zephyr it won't do anything unless it's hookd up to the DB150 (via Loconet). It is looking for another digitrax component to tell it what to do.. I'll post more this evening... Sorry my previous posts are a jumbled up mess... I'm not sure why it's doing that. ~Ian
I agree. Get a NCE or Lenz 100 system. There's no need to break the layout into blocks. It isn't that large a layout where blocks are necessary. Get either command station and then you can run trains instead of deciphering Digitrax manuals.
Hi Ian, Whenever we are reading a book, one of the chapters of the book will be interesting to read so we jump to that chapter in the middle of the book before reading the chapter before it. I know I have to change my layout to blocks but for now I am very excited to run DS64 and that would make it easier for me to change the turns. To do that now I have to pull the table from the wall and squeeze myself to get to some of the turns. Still you can continue educating a dummy like me the step by step. Thanks again and again. Mo
Thanks Bob Hi Bob, I wish I knew then what I know now. I might do that in the future but for now I just want to see my trains running aroung. Thanks. Mo
This is for "learmoia" Hi Ian, Last night I disconnected DB150 and used one of my Zephyr as a command station, and hook up the DS64 to it. After a long trail and error finally I got DS64 to work. Now I have to learn and memorize -t and +t and which direction do they go. I would like to thank you very much for taking time to help me. All the best. Mo
Mo: I also mention this in the Digitrax Yahoo Groups. If you want to simply things, you could, and this is only a suggestion - keep one of your Zephyrs as a power station (you can also use it as a throttle), and get the UT4D throttles with radio and Infrared capabilities, and a couple of UR92's, which will also allow you to run trains either via radio or infrared. You won't be able to program with the UT4D, but you can use the Zephyr for that. Or, you could really make a change, and get the DT402D throttle, which will work with the Zephyr and the UR92. But, if you cannot afford that right now, I would recommend your considering my idea.
Mo.. I sent you a private message with my contact info for further issues.. It looks like your going the right direction with the DS64.. To answer your questions.. ...It looks like you have question 1 under control. 2. I don't know how to program the DS64 and how to run it? --- Me either ;-).. I’ve never used a DS64 before…. But the manual seems just as convoluted as the Zephyr manual.. so it would be fun to learn.. If you are only going to use one DS64 on your layout, then you may not need to program it at all.. When you add a second DS64.. that’s when the programming begins. You got it working so that’s a good sign. 3. How daisy chain between all these unit should be connect and in which order? what I mean the loco net wires should go first from where to where, and then from the next where to which where and on? From what I understand, it does not matter what order things are plugged in for Loconet. Think of it like a land line telephone setup in your house. (Do they even install land lines in new homes anymore... I haven't had a land line in 7-8 years...) 4. How to divide my layout into different blocks so I would avoid the problem of my whole layout goes in a complete stop when I have a problem with one loco? That really depends on the layout. The important thing is to put an isolation gap on each rail that runs between the sections.. Plus you need to have separate bus wire sets for each area of the layout. And you can’t cross wires between sections. Let me know if you need help with anything else.. ~Ian
