Hi to all Firstly, apologies if this is in the wrong place. My question is - I've just taken delivery of a really nice Proto C&O F7A. I'm hoping to model a smallish urban swithching layout, and this thing will be used to bring in transfer freight from other yards to be swithched. Did F7s ever run as A units only, or did they always run in combination with B and A units? Many thanks to anyone replying to this Phil
Yes, many railroads used various F units as single locomotives. Especially later on after the glamor of a streamlined multiple set wore off and the needs of the railroad changed. The Santa Fe tried using FT A units for switch engines for a while but found the rear visibility lacking. Later on they used single F3, F7, and F9s in local traffic before they gave up and rebuilt them into Geep like CF-7s.
Yes they did but working a "transfer" would be one of the least favorable jobs for a single F7. A "transfer" implies a job which travels between two railroads, exchanging cars. That means that the F7 would return facing backwards which would not be the engine of choice for that assignment. And A-A set would be more likely on a transfer. Dave H.
Thanks for the quick replies. I don't necessarily mean a transfer in the accepted sense of the word - please realise that being from the UK I'm somewhat feeling my way here. What I mean is what I am planning will be of necessity a small (say 15 feet) scenic bit in the middle, some sort of cassettes or similar either end. I just envisage a short train (say 8 cars + caboose coming in. Engine then picks up caboose and exits, leaving cars to be switched to various local industries. And in reverse, cars are picked up from the industries and made up into trains for onward transit. In short the normal (as I understand it ) style of operation for this kind of layout. Thanks again for the answers.
As was mentioned above the visability out the rear of a cab unit was almost nil. Another problem was the control stand was far enough away to be just out of reach when the engineer was leaning out the cab window. Single A units of either Alco FA or EMD F units was common though. The SP&S used single F units on some of their passenger trains until they were discontinued. Might I suggest getting another A unit and a B to make a three unit set and a hood unit such as ALCO's RS3 or EMD GP7/9. I'm not sure but if C&O had a BLW RS12 that would work too.
Yes. They did use them singly. Before radios visibility was a problem. I have video of an engineer friend switching with a single F unit. But they were using radios. And he was relying on his mirror. Boxcab E50
Yes , the C&O had BL2's on roster until traded for GP30's ... As far as "transfering" with an F unit ... Sure ! I've seen many pics of real railroads doing very "unprototypic" stuff over the years ... An A-A set of matched F units is very "sexxy" though ...
It may be a problem in search of a solution, but where crews did get stuck with switching with F-units, and if they were single locomotive, they would try turn the unit around before heading back. If you're looking for a good excuse for a turntable on your module, that would be it. Switching with them was bad enough, but running them 'backwards' without turning them for the return trip just couldn't be done safely. I'm not sure it was formally banned, but I'll say I've never seen it even in photos. So if they were running a local, the end terminal had to have turning facilities. If you couldn't turn the units, then they would have an A-A set back to back. My favorite local line that used secondhand F-units for years (Wellsville, Addison & Galeton) ran this way for a long time. WAG-Railroad-HomePage Also remember that your C&O unit was just as likely to be MU'd with a GP-7 or something else as another A unit for local switching.
This is really interesting to me, thank you. In my mind's eye the caboose would be switched out by the resident switcher on to a run round road, the F7 would pick it up and disappear up the main going in the same direction as it came in, so no need to turn it. The local switcher would then carry out the switching. Maybe the other way round - the freight goes onto the run round road, the caboose is switched onto the main, is picked up by the F7 which then leaves, leaving the main clear. Would it have been worked like this?
From the Santa Fe, I used to see them run transfer runs from Corwith to Clearing with almost anything they had in the yard. There could be a strange collection of units slowly dragging a freight. I think the track may have been restricted to about 10mph at best, particularly when crossing Pulaski Road. There must have been a wye somewhere for the return trip. Perhaps the AT&SF had enough "trackage rights" to enable them to do this. THe ATSF seemed to have a policy to add power to move whatever train needed to be transferred. By this measure, a single F may be able to pull a 10-20 car train. Perhaps the larger yards & junctions included a wye track long enough to turn a whole train without stopping to turn one car at a time?
PhilH go ahead and run the single F unit as you stated. It has happened many a time, used in the manner you speak of. It wouldn't be that big an issue bringing your train to the siding and having the F unit set the cars out and go back to the main to pick up the caboose and leave town. Santa Fe has been mentioned several times and there is a picture I've seen of a single F7 a piggy back car and a caboose. Santa Fe was just starting their Super C piggy back train service in the late 1960’s and they ran it from Chicago to Los Angles that way. And on fairly level track, an F7 could pull a fair amount of cars, wouldn't break any speed records but they could do it. Greg
The Caboose Would Lead On The Return Trip I've read with some interest the discussion here regarding the use of a single F type unit. It happened all the time. A locomotive might take a string of empty reefer cars out to a Orange Grove packing house and spot the cars. On the return trip it would pick-up the loaded reefers and in a reverse move, with the caboose in the lead make it's way back to the yard of origination. The First Quarter 2008 issue of "the Warbonnet" has dedicated this issue to the Santa Fe and the Southern California Citrus Industry. You will see a single F7 tied to a GP7, 2 AA FT's back to back, AB set of FT's making the pull and more. If you can pick it up at your LHS it's worth the read. SP, UP, WP, Santa Fe, B&O, C&O, N&W and to many to list here all pushed the early FT's and later F7's into service where ever needed. Many working single unit switch jobs or turns, as we call them today. My grandad an engineer for Santa Fe told of a time when they handed off to him a couple of F type units. All I remember is him saying, you couldn't see out of them without twisting and turning, hanging your head out the window so you could see the switchman. Interesting times and they didn't last long.
Run the single F unit! As many have said, and having operated F units myself, the 'Backwards' running has limited visibility, unless there is a mirror. But, the way you discribe your operation, it would be leaving heading with the locomotive still leading. Another interesting thing you stated was that you would have a caboose. If, you "Local/Transfer" job did have to make a reverse move, the caboose crew would be the Engineers eyes, directing the move as Rick stated above, making the F units leading position mo big deal. Have fun with your F Unit!
Speaking of running backwards. Enjoy this. [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkIzz9gkSus"]YouTube - Ingalls[/ame] Greg
Geese, where did you find that model of an Ingalls Shipbuilding Co. 4S? That had to be one of the strangest looking locomotives ever produced. At least it had windows in the back of the turret cab to look out when making a reverse move.
A units run by themselves, but B units did also! The Haysi Railroad purchased Clinchfield #852, an F7B unit. It was equipped with radio controls and had an A unit control stand installed. This B unit was used mostly for moving coal hoppers around in south-west Virginia.
Most "B" units of that era had "hostler controls." They consisted of a brake valve and a four position throttle. Try that on a local:tb-confused:
There was a picture in Railroad Model Craftsman a number of years back. I forget the circumstances, but it involved a cab unit being run in reverse. They had a brakeman stand in the back door, with his hand on the airbrake valve, to stop it quickly if needed. Frank
Somewhere I remember a video of a whole train moving backwards. A horn had been placed on the caboose for the conductor to blow it at the crossing. Not sure if this was a narrow "branch line" with one way in & one way out. With a 5 man crew, someone may have been out on the ground to flag the crossing if the street was busy enough.
