Spent some time reading and designing with some new references. Dave, "to the right of the 22nd St Yard" means the industries would go between tracks and backdrop as you say. If i opt for this, i will place just a couple of those, near the throat of the yard where i have a 20" distance / reach for the industries. Unfortunately i cannot push the yard as you propose due to other structural obstructions. What i have done though, is to eliminate the 22nd St Yard completely in my alternative plan (which i have developed simultaneously to the one presented earlier). Eliminating the yard, was inspired by one of your recommendations / advices in one of your initial replies where you told me to make provisions for scenic options in the staging area. Based on this I will make provisions so that the staging yard becomes scenic-area, representing the 22nd St Yard and / or points North such as Hobart Yard in LA or San Bernardino. So staging now will accommodate the operation of assembling through freights between SD-LA and SD-SB. Plus it has more space for a locomotive servicing facility. All in all, doing this, i have "lightened up" the main layout by removing the yard and the engine facility. The alternative plan, requires this elimination to free room-space for other uses where the 22nd street yard was. On the plus side, I gain something like 35’ of more mainline run and a more prototypically realistic plan / operations. In this updated / new plan, most of the previous layout elements remain unchanged but, the 22nd St yard is gone, and Oceanside is added, along with it’s freight yard. This new Oceanside yard was the assembly point for local freights that did operate out of Oceanside to SD, Fallbrook and Escondido. So the local freight now starts from Oceanside (instead of SD), does all the switching work up to and including the industrial area North of San Diego and then returns to the Oceanside yard The through freights start and terminate in the staging yard, picking up and setting out cars at Oceanside. The staging yard, can be depending on occasion either the 22nd yard in SD or Hobart in LA (or even San Bernardino). Passenger service, as usual, from San Diego to LA. Added scenes: Oceanside (Harbor, Town, Yard, Industries) Buena Vista Lagoon More realistic / More expanded Torrey Pines Concrete Bridge. San Diego In due time I will refine the Oceanside industries / Harbor. Here is the latest / updated plan.
In one of your earlier posts, you indicated that you might have trains run from 22nd Street Yard north to staging and then run back south, either as an immediate turn (just using staging tracks as a run-around) or as a second train starting at a later time. For the trains that terminate in staging, I assume you will be removing power and parking locos on the tracks drawn near the turntable. Do you plan to have a Staging Yard Switcher Job that breaks down and rebuilds trains into a different combination of cars to return south? Or will you leave the cars in their same order and simply pull them from the same end to go north or from the other end to head back south? If you intend to leave all cars in a train in the same order for their next trip, then the turnout configuration you show for your 8 staging tracks will work fine...and my suggestions below will offer only marginal improvement in reliability when pulling strings of cars through the turnouts. However, if you are going to have a staging yard switcher breaking down arriving trains and resorting cars to other tracks to build departing trains that have different combinations of cars, then you may want to reconfigure the turnouts at one end (or both ends) of the staging yard so there are fewer s-curves. The process of breaking down and building trains entails repeatedly pulling and pushing strings of cars through the yard throat. Making sure turnouts are properly aligned, level (no bowing up or dipping down), no twisting, and properly gauged, and ensuring that tracks into and out of the turnouts are "bullet-proofed", will minimize derailments through the turnouts. But, even with deliberate bullet-proofing, when strings of cars are being pushed (as opposed to pulled) onto the curved portions of the turnouts, they will be slightly more vulnerable to derailing, and this vulnerability is considerably amplified when the curved portion of the turnout makes up 1/2 of an S-curve. Looking at the throat at the left end (non-layout area end) of your 8-track staging yard, there are 4 right hand turnouts running along the left wall. Track 8 is accessed thru the straight portion of 4 TOs (no s-curves); Track 7 straight thru 3 TOs and then thru the curve to the right of the 4th TO and immediately curving back to the left to run parallel with the wall (yielding an S-curve); Track 6 is reached straight thru 2 TOs, and then thru the curve of the 3rd TO, (no s-curve, because there will be 1 car length of track before curving back parallel with the wall); and Track 5 is reached by going straight thru the first RH TO and thru the curve of the 2nd RH TO followed by 2 car lengths straight track before curving back parallel to the wall (no s-curve). To reach Track 4, trains go thru the curve of the RH TO, then the straight portion of another RH TO, then about 1 car length straight before curving back parallel to the wall (no S-curve). Track 3 is reached thru the curve of the first RH TO, and the curve of the 2nd RH TO, then a double length of curve back the other way to run parallel to the wall (S-curve). Track 2 is reached thru the curve of the first RH TO, the curve of the second RH TO, the curve of the 1st left hand TO (S-curve), 1 car length of straight track and a second curve of track to run parallel with the wall. Track 1 is reached through the curve of the first RH TO, curve of the 2nd RH TO, straight of the first LH TO, a length of curved track, 1 car length of straight track, and then a second curve (the curved portion of the RH TO to the turntable) to run parallel with the wall (no S-curve). If you use Track 8 as a Main line or for continuous running, and Track 1 as a running track, then you have 6 tracks for staging and 3 of them have S-curves. As an alternative, you could minimize S-curves in the staging yard by lining the 6 staging tracks at an angle to the yard lead, instead of parallel to the yard lead. These pics show how I avoided S-curves into my classification tracks by running my yard lead at an angle: Later today, I'll try to post a track plan showing your staging yard with this type of turnout configuration.
Dave many thanks for noticing and reminding me the issues for the yard. I kept the original (for staging only) track arrangement for the yard in the track-plan i posted as a leftover out of haste. I was about to revise it in a very similar way to the one you are proposing! The photos you posted are very helpful! I intend to use this yard as a classification yard with an S4 and/or RSD4/5 switcher assembling through freights (LA , SB, SD) which are mostly going to be south-bound to SD. Therefore my yard lead is going to be on the right side. For the same reason and following your advice i have changed the (right-side) ladder so that no s-curves exist. I ll keep the left one (ladder) as-is since no switching/shoving of trains is going to be performed there. So even though the yard looks like a double-ended one, as a freight-yard it is going to be operated as being single ended. Keeping both ladders will help me in having most tracks suitable / available as A/D tracks and classification tracks depending on needs, since the locomotives will be able to escape to the service area using the left ladder. If i removed some turnouts i would loose this feature. This is the revised ladder/yard. Looking forward to your much appreciated feedback on the ladder. No s-curves now, and i added a yard lead and a Scenic-Divider in the form of a highway overpass separating the yard scene from Oceanside harbor. Now that i see it, i got an s-curve where the harbor is, but it is a 46" curve so i hope no issues there for a train crossing over there.
What are the dimensions of the Staging Yard area? After working on it last night, it looks like setting up a No S-Curve throat into your HO scale 9-track staging area (8 yard tracks and 1 main running parallel with the top wall in your train space) using a configuration identical to what I have in my N-scale yard will require locating the first of the 4 pairs of turnouts about 8 to 10 feet from the top wall. This positioning would work fine on the left side of your staging area, because the non-layout area seems to be far enough from the top wall to fit the entire throat before starting the 46 inch radius curve of the main (9th) track. But, on the right side, it looks like the throat must start in the corner and finish 6 to 8 feet to the left, instead of starting closer to Oceanside and finishing in the corner where all 9 tracks would curve to the left (9th track = 46 inch radius) to pass across the top of the staging yard space. You've mentioned running through freights and local freights. Do you know approximately how many cars you will have in each freight train? Obviously, this will affect how long your classification tracks will need to be. (And, conversely, space or design limitations affecting where you put the yard throat (and the harbor?) will influence the number and length of your classification tracks, and in turn, will have implications for the number and length of trains that can be run out of that yard.)
Dave for the plan as it is now: There are 7 yard tracks plus the mainline against the top wall (8 in total). Numbering starts with 0 (mainline up against the upper wall) up to 7 (the shortest one which is closest to the benchwork). The length of the ladder on the right side of the yard (the one I changed so that it has no s-curves), is 5.3’. I am using #5 code 83 Peco turnouts for the ladder. The provisional room (trying to keep the design of the house in specific dimensions) for the yard is approximately 10’ x 20’. As it is now, the shortest length of straight track in the yard classification tracks running parallel to the top wall (Track 7) is 6’. Coupling/uncoupling will be done in this area of the yard using only the right side ladder. Track 1 holds 28 to 29 50’ cars (or 34-35 X 40’ ones) Track 2 holds the same amount. Track 3 holds 24 X 50’ and 28 X 40’ Track 4 holds 23 X 50’ and 27 X 40’ Track 5 holds 21 X 50’ and 26 X 40’ Track 6 holds 20 X 50’ and 24 X 40’ Track 7 holds 17 X 50’ and 20 X 40’. This track though will be reserved for runarounds and movements to/from the locomotive service facility. I will add another turnout on this track leading to a caboose track where the empty space is on the right side yard throat. One or two tracks will hold passenger trains (staging). The other five are open game for both the through freights. I imagine that in one session (solo operator), at best, i ll assemble one through freight train only. The local will be assembled in the Oceanside yard. The yard lead (from throat up to the overpass) holds five 50’ cars plus a locomotive. If the switcher goes down to the next throat (of the Oceanside yard), it can hold 15 50’ cars (and a locomotive). I am aware that ideally I should aim for a lead as long as my longest classification yard. I ll make do with shorter cuts here since this is a “bonus”/afterthought yard to the main (operationally) yard at Oceanside (bonus being a result of going extra on the layout design and using the staging/fiddle yard also as a freight yard). I think I envision this as a fiddle/staging yard that can be operated almost as a normal freight yard given the limitations of yard-lead length. I want to keep through freights to a train length in the 4.5m-5m range, similar to my longest passenger train. A typical through freight consist will be 3 GP35’s (or similar 4-axle GP type, or ABBA F series consist), 1 caboose and around 20-30 cars (mixed 40’ and 50’). A typical local freight will be 1 or 2 GP35’s (or similar) with 10-20 cars (including caboose).
