Thread: The First four engines
October 16th, 2006, 01:46 AM #1
The First four engines
I just received this email from a person in England; WOW!!!!!!!
I have been researching the 4 locomotives ordered from England especially #12 otherwise known as the Pride of Newcastle or as you have it America. I work with the Stephenson Trust who currently own the South St Works and its archives. I looked at your web site and note you are requesting images. I have considerable information on the construction, delivery and testing of these locomotives and have for some time been intending to contact the D&H historical society, so have taken this opportunity. I would comment as follows:
- Stourbridge Lion had a sister engine called Agenoria which survived into preservation and is now located in the National Railway Museum in York England. It is very close to the Stourbridge Lion in all except the wheels and pictures can be supplied.
- Altogether Foster Rastrick only built 4 locomotives in their whole career. Three, Stourbridge Lion, Delaware and Hudson were for the D&H and the fourth was the Agenoria above was for the Shutt End Railway. The two locos Hudson and Delaware were delivered to New York in 1830 and only got as far as Eddyville where they were damaged in a fire. There are no drawings or pictures and as far I can determine were identical to Stourbridge Lion.
- The fourth locomotive was built by Robert Stephenson and Co in South St works Newcastle upon Tyne, England between July and October 1828 and was shipped from the Tyne in Dec 1828 in the snow Younghusband. The works ledger and the works "description" book both exist. Under the latter, the works number was #12 and the inscription "Engine for Mr Allen America".
- The name America was never carried. In fact it was never named and the name America was coined by one Clement Stretton in 1898 because he misread the entry in the Description Book as a name rather than a place. There is a drawing of #12 by Stretton which I can supply. This comes with a health warning as work at South St indicates that Stretton got most of the dimensions wrong.
- Letters between Allen and Jervis in 1829 refer to #12 as the Pride of Newcastle - although this too was never carried. It is by this name that the Trust know this locomotive. I can supply a drawing of #12 which is more accurate and based on its sister engine #11 Lancashire Witch supplied to the Bolton and Leigh Railway in July/August 1828. Horatio Allen records witnessing the trials of Lancashire Witch on the strength of which, he ordered #12 from Robert Stephenson.
If you would like for me to send some images and/or correspond over the emerging story then please feel free to respond to this mail. I await your comments with interest.
More on this as I get it; but, this is HUGE for USA RR History!!!!!!!
October 16th, 2006, 11:31 AM #2Confirmed TrainBoard Member
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- Aug 2006
I have posted this elsewhere, but it is worth a read.
Scroll down to the bottom to "Unravelling the Myth"
The more I read about this, the more I am convinced that Horatio Allen got "Taken" by Foster and Rastrick. They made the engines way too heavy and Allen did not follow the instructions of his superiors.
I bet after the disastrous run of the Lion he was fired!
The info about the Delaware and Hudson burning in a fire is something I have not read prior to this. Most accounts say the engines "Disappeared" into the fog of history. I wonder if they were not destroyed on purpose?
October 16th, 2006, 01:35 PM #3
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- DeLand, IL
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October 16th, 2006, 07:00 PM #4
December 4th, 2006, 08:35 PM #5
I wonder if those might be those two engines on the ocean bottom in 90 feet of water off of New Jersey between NYC and Atlantic City?
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