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Lownen
July 11th, 2008, 03:16 AM
In my pursuit of all things TT scale I came across an American prototype TT scale layout in Germany. The layout is affiliated with a store that actually sells the American prototype trains run on the layout... not that I can afford any of them.

They sell Alco PA and PB units in Santa Fe blue and yellow...

http://www.siggis-modellbahn-shop.de/USA%20Anlage/img0001.jpg

I've never seen any Santa Fe ALCOs or for that matter any Santa Fe EMD covered wagons in blue and yellow. It has always been some color warbonnet on silver. Did Santa Fe ever paint PA/PB units in this color scheme?

r_i_straw
July 11th, 2008, 03:46 AM
The locomotives pictured are not PA-PB Alcos. They are the shorter four axle FA-FB type which Santa Fe never owned. The paint scheme is similar to what Santa Fe painted on their freight EMD F units.
http://www.atsfrr.com/resources/BackRalph/images/f7266l.jpg

Lownen
July 11th, 2008, 03:59 AM
Yes, that was a typo on my part. They're listed in the online catalog as FA and FB units. Still, its interesting to know that Santa Fe never owned ALCO FA/FB units.

Thanks Russell!

friscobob
July 11th, 2008, 06:27 AM
Yes, that was a typo on my part. They're listed in the online catalog as FA and FB units. Still, its interesting to know that Santa Fe never owned ALCO FA/FB units.

Thanks Russell!

But if they did.......would make a nice "what-if" scheme. Mess with the minds of the rivet-counters, too..... :D :D :D

randgust
July 11th, 2008, 11:31 AM
They never silver-chromed the sides of a high-nose Alco C625, either!

Mr. SP
July 11th, 2008, 12:53 PM
There are a lot of never were's in ATSF out there. Who can ever forget the high hood chrome plated Alco Century 630 of "Toyco" fame. Then there are the Alco FA's and BLW Sharks in full warbonnet paint that Model Power made/makes. Gotta do your homework before buying something to give the rivet counterd fitz.

randgust
July 11th, 2008, 01:51 PM
I've never seen any Santa Fe ALCOs or for that matter any Santa Fe EMD covered wagons in blue and yellow.

Actually, ATSF had a big fleet of F7's and F9's in blue and yellow. That was the evolutionary scheme from the FT "Catwhisker" design that was simplified in the 1950's. The blue and yellow stayed on the freight F-units right up until they were converted to CF7's between 1969 and 1984. During the era that I model (1970's) they were the 'beat fleet', generally limited to non-mountainous territory and secondary trains systemwide. The sheer numbers of the F-unit fleet is what made the CF7 program possible.

'as delivered':
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=55154&nseq=0

'The Beat Fleet" 1973:
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=113859&nseq=48

As you can see that FA model takes liberty not only with the locomotive, but the color, and lettering. It's not quite as bad as the chrome-plated Tycos, or the powder-blue zerbra-stripe Trix FM switcher in N, but it can hold its own on the Foobie list.

F's were on the roster in different gearing sets, so you'd see passenger units, combination units (red and silver) and freight units. The combination passenger units with somewhat reduced gearing did see freight duty, but the blue and yellow F units never saw passenger except in emergency. That didn't really change until the FP45/F45's were received - the blue and yellow F45's were considered the boosters to FP45's and had passthru steam generator lines.

After Amtrak in 1971, ATSF messed around with a lot of regeared ex-passenger F-units in freight service, including red and silver, and the oddball blue bonnets on silver, and the yellowbonnets on silver, but none of those were particularly widespread.

Lownen
July 11th, 2008, 03:58 PM
Randy;

Thanks for all the info. There is so much to learn about railroad history, and so many railroads with history.

If I could afford these FA units, I'd repaint them in MKT red anyway. But I'm glad I posted the question. I've learned a lot about Santa Fe covered wagons.

BarstowRick
July 11th, 2008, 04:27 PM
In S scale, Amrican Flyer put out a PA A&B set in the blue and yellow pin stripe with a cigar band on the nose. Very attractive but not at all authentic. Santa Fe's PA's stayed in the red and silver warbonnet paint scheme until their demise.

Triplex
July 12th, 2008, 07:38 PM
After Amtrak in 1971, ATSF messed around with a lot of regeared ex-passenger F-units in freight service, including red and silver, and the oddball blue bonnets on silver, and the yellowbonnets on silver, but none of those were particularly widespread. Though the CF7 program was already underway, I know a few Fs received blue/yellow post-1972 freight bonnet. Were these ex-passenger units, or had they always been freight, or some of both?

wig-wag-trains.com
July 13th, 2008, 12:35 AM
One PA was painted in a gold warbonnet scheme.

Lownen
July 13th, 2008, 01:01 AM
One PA was painted in a gold warbonnet scheme.

Thanks!

Thanks everyone! Great information.

randgust
July 13th, 2008, 03:17 AM
There was a group of F9's that got yellow warbonnet with a blue carbody.

There were some F7's; some that had been on lease with Amtrak, that got yellow noses with blue trim on a silver body, and there were several oddball treatments with striping, etc. A couple F7's got blue noses with yellow trim on a silver body. If you look at Intermountain's web page, NONE of those schemes are 'made up'.

Here's some samples of the oddballs:

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=233843&nseq=1

Note the different nose band here:

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=86572&nseq=55

Hmmmm. Maybe not paint in the herald, lets try that....

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=55172&nseq=77

I kinda liked the blue treatment myself, but it was quite rare:

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=16624&nseq=112

Sorry I can't find a color shot, but this is the F9 group in yellowbonnet:

http://atsfrr.net/resources/funits/images/s913p25b.jpg

Remember these only existed between 1972 and when the F-units were rebuilt into CF7's, so they didn't last long.

AB&CRRone
July 13th, 2008, 01:40 PM
They sell Alco PA and PB units in Santa Fe blue and yellow...

I've never seen any Santa Fe ALCOs or for that matter any Santa Fe EMD covered wagons in blue and yellow. It has always been some color warbonnet on silver. Did Santa Fe ever paint PA/PB units in this color scheme?

http://www.trainboard.com/grapevine/images/icons/icon7.gif
No, but Con-Cor did, from circa 1982.

SSW9389
July 13th, 2008, 02:14 PM
There was one freight F7A that received the yellow warbonnet treatment, the #271C. The 271C was painted yellowbonnet in June 1972 and destroyed in a wreck at Plainview, TEXAS in December 1973.

randgust
July 13th, 2008, 02:18 PM
Now you know why I model 1972. If ever there was a year of transistion in paint, that was it. Even 35 years later, people are still trying to figure out what was going on. It's pretty easy for a manufacturer to come up with a foobie and even the "experts" have to check to make sure! It really makes modeling the railroad a lot of fun.

I saw my first "yellowbonnet" in July of 1972, which since then, I've identified as a GP39-2 near Emporia. I was rather stunned. What was THAT??? as we went flying by.

Sorta like the CF7's, the paint scheme itself was evolutionary. The first order of U36C's (8700's) were delivered in BOTH paint schemes - the 1960's, and 1972 Bonnet, from GE. And there were two variations in the Yellowbonnet even from GE - one with a yellow front sill and one with a blue sill! That paint scheme was the new image for the Santa Fe in 1972, the 'post passenger, post-Amtrak' company and a U36C in yellowbonnet was the cover of the annual report. One thing for certain was that the red and silver paint was hunted agressively nearly to extinction with the Amtrak lease F7's and a couple FP45's the only survivors by about 1974. No particular locomotive class was selected to be repainted first, and the individual system shops that repainted locomotives were a little on their own on exactly how to do it; hence the F7 variations. It took a couple years before they added the silver trucks to the yellowbonnet, which appears to be a Barstow touch that caught on. Some passenger locomotive classes, like the U30CG and the FP45, had a few wonderful years where three different paint schemes were on them - the factory passenger, the original freight, and the yellowbonnet. You have to go down to the individual unit numbers and the individual months to actually get it right! The FP45's had like 12 different paint schemes and numbers over their service lives.

So given that history, it's fertile ground for Foobies. It doesn't take much imagination to figure out what would have happened if a particular locomotive class had survived into 1972, rolled into Topeka, and the guys say 'hmmmmm.... what do you want to try on THIS one?'

And all this predates Kodachromes and Super Fleet, heck, that's another thread...

Triplex
July 13th, 2008, 08:38 PM
One thing for certain was that the red and silver paint was hunted agressively nearly to extinction with the Amtrak lease F7's and a couple FP45's the only survivors by about 1974. It seems like B-units lasted in silver/red longer. I've seen a number of shots of those from the mid-70s, and one dated 1979!

I love 70s Santa Fe too, in large part because of the mess of paint schemes that all looked right together. And because I'm interested in 70s railroading in general.