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shamoo737
February 16th, 2008, 01:24 PM
I been coming home later and later, and the layout look rather dark. After I installed the lighted signals, it didn't look right. That is when I desided to intall lights into the layout. The first light was a Maklin light that uses a grain lightbulb, but it lasted one day, and the other is a led, but it was too dim. This is a Brawa z scale light. It uses a grain bulb for light, and its very bright. I probably replace the bulb with a smd when it burns out.

http://www.trainboard.com/railimages/data/506/DSC02217.JPG

rray
February 16th, 2008, 04:06 PM
It puts out a lot of light! They should last about 500 hours or so.

kimvellore
February 16th, 2008, 04:20 PM
I have been collecting the Brawa lights for years and accumulated over 100's of them, then Marklin came out with the fine scale lights and made the Brawa lights look like G scale lights... Now I am collecting the Marklin lights. Some day I will make a layout that will have these lights... If you see real life lighting there are just too many too close to each other. So many lights and not too bright looks best in a layout. To make your incandescent bulbs last longer just reduce the voltage to it and dont run it at max voltage it will last forever.

Kim
Kim

shamoo737
February 16th, 2008, 04:27 PM
Thanks Robert, but I dont want to mess around changing light bulbs, so I converted this Marklin light with a smd. The smds are three volts, so I added a 390k quarter watt resistor. I also use leds to light the house.

http://www.trainboard.com/railimages/data/506/DSC022201.JPG

I also use leds to light up my factory.

http://www.trainboard.com/railimages/data/506/DSC02218.JPG

Cleantex
February 16th, 2008, 05:32 PM
Hi John,

The 390Ohm are Ok, but already about the down limit, the grey Märklin throw out
15Volt if idle.
If you calculate with 12V feed - 3V Led = 9V : 390 thats about 23 mA so pretty
enough. Anyway mostly between 20 and 30mA you dont win a lot of luminosity
in this low power leds.
If you have stock from values between 560Ohm to 1500 you will have for all
illumination needs and all Leds that will fall between your fingers.
And for duo color Leds the red will mostly kill the green and if you want yellow
you will need something about 560Ohm for the green and 1000Ohm for the red.

shamoo737
February 16th, 2008, 05:43 PM
Thanks Armand, I have a question. I bought some of the Marklin lights that have leds, but they are extremely dim. I thought about replacing the resistor that came with it, but I dont want to blow the led. Do you have any suggestion?

rray
February 16th, 2008, 05:51 PM
I found a neat trick, if you paint a white LED with Tamiya Clear Orange, (http://www.tamiyausa.com/product/item.php?product-id=81026) the color of the light in photos will change from bluish to a normal incandescent white. It really works! :D

Cleantex
February 16th, 2008, 06:05 PM
Thanks for the trick, Robert is much cheaper than to buy golden white.
Its totaly transparent ?

John, I know, the Märklin are not very bright, Trainini in Germany was
saying about that they were "i will not tell you-yellow"
With higher power you will not arrive to more luminosity, its the leds
limit. They will just suicide at a certain point.
If you have once a sadistic hour, take a yellow one and put it with
100Ohm on the DC regulated output and turn the button.
You will see from a certain point it will even become darker,
change color and disappear for ever in a flash.

HoboTim
February 16th, 2008, 08:20 PM
I found a neat trick, if you paint a white LED with Tamiya Clear Orange, (http://www.tamiyausa.com/product/item.php?product-id=81026) the color of the light in photos will change from bluish to a normal incandescent white. It really works! :D

I was just about to make the same suggestion!!!!

John, paint your LEDs with the Clear Tamiya Orange like Robert says. They will look more prototypical.

Looks good!!!!

Hobo Tim

JoeS
February 17th, 2008, 02:20 PM
Looks great John! I have to say those little things make a layout look pleasing to the eye!

shamoo737
February 17th, 2008, 03:16 PM
I have been collecting the Brawa lights for years and accumulated over 100's of them, then Marklin came out with the fine scale lights and made the Brawa lights look like G scale lights... Now I am collecting the Marklin lights. Some day I will make a layout that will have these lights... If you see real life lighting there are just too many too close to each other. So many lights and not too bright looks best in a layout. To make your incandescent bulbs last longer just reduce the voltage to it and dont run it at max voltage it will last forever.

Kim
Kim

Kim, I find that the Marklin lights are too dim. Maybe you can find a way to make them brighter. I do find them the best looking lights in z scale.

Robert and Tim, I will get a bottle to test it out.

Joe, I do like the layout lighted, but my bowl of spaghetti is getting worse.

kimvellore
February 18th, 2008, 12:16 AM
John,
The Marklin lights come with a current limiting circuit and you cannot get more out of those LED's without harming them. It is also not easy to change out those 402 LED's with brighter ones. Not many options I can think of here with Marklin lights.

Kim

RSmidt
February 18th, 2008, 03:18 AM
John, paint your LEDs with the Clear Tamiya Orange like Robert says. They will look more prototypical.
Hobo Tim

Tim, That depends on what prototype you are aiming for.

Old streetlights were incandescent = amber/yellow
then they went to Mercury Vapor = white
then they went to High Pressure Sodium = yellow orange
(or in some places, low pressure sodium = orange)
also used for places like car dealer lots is Metal halide = blue white

Interior incandescents = amber/yellow
fluorescents for office buildings/commercial = white
metal halide for warehouses or industrial = blue white.

If you are ever flying at night, look down and see the variety of colors of lighting in use. More variety than you might think.

Randy
former energy efficient lighting guy (my wife still laughs at me whenever I reflexively look up at the lights when I walk into a building I've never been in before)

shamoo737
February 18th, 2008, 03:56 AM
Randy, it happen to my development. We went from yellowish street lights to white lights. It all depends on the Kelvins of the bulb. Yellow is about 6000k, white is about 10000K, and bluish is about 14000K. I learn this from my experience with saltwater tanks. One of the 250 watt metal halide bulbs cost about $100, but I have nice coral growth, but I am getting off topic.

HoboTim
February 18th, 2008, 05:04 AM
Randy,

Why????

Why do you have to be so technical????

My main reason, as I bet Robert's too was that residential HOUSE with the aerial spotlight inside shining blue white light from every window!!!!! Just didn't look right!!!

The house John, the house!!!! That is where the orange Tamiya clear paint should go, and throw some curtains in some of the windows!!!!!

Heh He He !!!!!

Hobo Tim

Cleantex
February 18th, 2008, 09:49 AM
Perhaps they just make some foto shooting for next playboy inside :we-tongue:

shamoo737
February 18th, 2008, 01:23 PM
Tim, do you think you can make me some vertical blinds? :D I did think about about adding some curtins. I think somebody made it with tissue and water down white glue.

rray
February 18th, 2008, 03:27 PM
This weekend, Chris and I went to Hobby Town to get paints, and while there I was looking at the Woodland Scenics built up N Scale structures. They have lots of details, and I mean lots! One of the things I noticed upon close inspection is that the windows upstairs all had blinds on them, and they all had the string dangling too! The string to open and close the blinds was about .002" thick! Thinner than a hair! Now I am thinking I need blinds too!

The one thing I notice about the white LED's is that they look very white in person, but my camera sees them as blue, and that's where the Tamiya Clear Orange really does it's stuff. You all have to try it, it's really amazing!

RSmidt
February 18th, 2008, 03:27 PM
Randy,
Why do you have to be so technical????

Hobo Tim

Actually, Tim, I really restrained myself from going technical and getting in to color temperature in Kelvins (K) like John mentioned. ;-)

But now that he has mentioned it, the higher the number for the color temperature the more blue white it is, just like a flame.

Incandescent is around 2600 to 2700K
Fluorescent varies from 2700K to 6000K with 3000, 3500 and 4000K typical
Metal Halide and Mercury Vapor are in the 4500-5500K range if I remember correctly
and High Pressure Sodium (most orange yellow street lights) ar below 2700K usually around 2500K (unless you get special purpose color corrected lamps).

I want to say sunlight (noontime) is something like 6500 to 8500K. Low angle morning and evening sun get's atmospheric interference and is different (and more pleasing in my opinion).

I was just trying to show what colors would be typical for different purposes. I whole heartly agree that the amber/yellowish orangish colors work better for inside houses.

Randy

SJ Z-man
February 18th, 2008, 06:24 PM
Rob,

Part of the reasons your camera sees blue (versus your eye) is both the Auto White balance and the camera's use of RGB detectors. These are all processed to give you the colors you see.

But the really big contributor is the White LED itself. Must everyone does not understand how a white LED works. First, to get white light, one has to mix Red, Green and Blue or, create an arc. For LED manufacturers, they cannot easily make all 3 colors on a single die so they would have to place 3 individual chips on the assembly and wire them all. Plus, they are have different voltages so they would have to be wired in series. All this is costly and electrically not practical but used in the home and sign lighting (these are typically 1/2" ~ 2" in size and require heat sinks). The more common solution is to make a Blue LED with a yellow-ish phosphor. All but the specialty (and expensive) LED's are made this way. The more recent and expensive Zinc Selenide devices are more truer white without the phospors.

If you look at the specs for a white LED, you can see both it's manufacturing color distribution deviation and the same for various currents. The manufacturing variations give you a more repeatable bluish or more white end of the distribution by ordering certain codes.

But the worst effect that we see is from not understanding the current required for the white output. The more truer white is at the higher output currents. With the race for bigger / better / faster we also get brighter. And for many of our apps, they are near nuclear bright so we drop the current for less light output. This leads to significantly less yellow phosphor emissions and thus a much more blue-ish light.

Sadly, the millicandela (mcd) outputs have risen into the 10,000 range. We only need 10-50 for our stuff. A 100 is just too bright. You can still find these earlier spec parts thru all the common distributors.

http://www.theledlight.com/technical1.html
.

Cleantex
February 18th, 2008, 07:05 PM
If I really need no blueish, I take 0603 or 3mm golden-white (like MTL use) or sunny-white,
they are a little expensive but much more near to the bulb,
specially the golden.
(John if you need some girls for the foto shooting, "wehonest" work with Bai Ling,
but trafofuchs in Germany make also Zxxx if you ask him) :embarassed:

shamoo737
June 10th, 2008, 05:44 AM
I finally found the perfect z scale street light. Its made by Bern. They are the right size for z scale, and with the right brightness. Bern is the same guy who made the railroad signals and crossing signals, so I knew they are very well made. I order mine through Oliver Passman. This is what they look like, and he has other styles.

http://www.trainboard.com/railimages/data/506/DSC02421.JPG

JoeS
June 11th, 2008, 03:49 AM
Very nice John! It looks like you have one of Tim's trucks in the picture as well. I think what always amazes me about Z scale is how everyone works to find find things that fit and pass the information on to others.

shamoo737
June 11th, 2008, 04:32 AM
Joe, that is one thing I learn from Robert Ray. There are no secret between z scalers.

kimvellore
June 11th, 2008, 05:16 AM
Yep I am learning that one from Rob too..... You can ask Rob his SS# and bank acct# and he'll tell you...

Kim

shamoo737
June 11th, 2008, 05:33 AM
and his paypal password. :D

rray
June 11th, 2008, 02:00 PM
Thats because my cause is not to make money for the sake of making money, but to grow Z Scale. I return pretty much 150% of what I make from Z Scale back into Z Scale, thanks to my day job!

What do I get in return? haha! I get the first one ever made! :D

shamoo737
December 24th, 2008, 03:40 PM
I got some new lights from Bern. This new lights are better then the last one. One of them is going to look great in a yard. They just need to be taller. I install the first one in front of the yard office.

http://www.trainboard.com/grapevine/picture.php?albumid=60&pictureid=3533

rray
December 24th, 2008, 03:54 PM
Looks great John! Also, if you want to use those lights for shopping center parking lots, you need the more orangish sodium vapor color, so use Tamiya Clear Orange paint on the bulb part, and it's like a whole different kind of light! :D

zmon
December 24th, 2008, 05:11 PM
John, very nice lighting... Can you post a link for where to orderthese from, and to see what styles they have..

Tony B..
Wasatch Z Club

shamoo737
December 24th, 2008, 05:30 PM
Robert, I try to buy the Tamiya orange, but nobody down here carries that color.

Tony, You can order it from Oliver Passman. His email address is info@passmann.com
You can see all the different styles in the beginning of this tread. I have one more style to post. All I need to do is solder a longer wire to it.

rray
December 24th, 2008, 06:59 PM
I ordered some new lights from We-Honest, that are supposed to be made from copper, and are 1" tall.
http://i8.ebayimg.com/03/i/001/26/3d/9a0d_1.JPG

I think the light bulb is big, but if the wires can be accessed, and a LED installed, it might be ok. Anyways I odrered a set of 20 for <$15.

shamoo737
December 24th, 2008, 08:12 PM
Robert, I thought about ordering them, but I thought it looks big.

Tony, here are some pictures of the lights Bern makes.

http://www.trainboard.com/grapevine/picture.php?albumid=60&pictureid=3546

http://www.trainboard.com/grapevine/picture.php?albumid=60&pictureid=3545

http://www.trainboard.com/grapevine/picture.php?albumid=60&pictureid=3544

shamoo737
December 24th, 2008, 08:15 PM
http://www.trainboard.com/grapevine/picture.php?albumid=60&pictureid=3543

http://www.trainboard.com/grapevine/picture.php?albumid=60&pictureid=3542

JoeS
December 27th, 2008, 02:02 AM
Cool lights John. How is all this wired up? Do you have a central power source for just the lights?

Nick Lorusso
December 27th, 2008, 02:14 AM
Has anyone thought about wireing a decoder in for lighting effects