View Full Version : SP P-10 project started
January 7th, 2008, 07:50 AM
With the introduction of the new bmann vandy tender, I felt a new project was in order. The tender is close to the ones used on the P-10 class of 4-6-2's used by the good ol' SP. After receiving my tender and looking at my unused MP pacific, the wheels started turning.
The first thing to do was shorten the new tender. After studying pictures, I decided that removing about 1/2 inch of length was in order. I disassembled the tender and proceded to chop the frame. First was the front where I moved the steps back towards the trucks by about 2mm, then I removed one section of support brackets from the middle of the frame, where there were three, now there are two. I popped the back end off the tender and carefully cut the equivalent portion from the end and glued the cap back on (while keeping the railings in place). On the front, I cut the bunker flush with the top of the original coal bunker. I added an oil bunker cap from an older bmann vandy tender and glued in a small filler (looks OK, not quite to prototype). I also removed the rear light and sanded the bumps flush since SP put thier lights on the top of the tender. Since I run DC, I just soldered NWSL wire from one pickup to the next and spliced in the wires from the MP pacific after removing the old tender. I also fashoned a new drawbar since neither factory one would work. Lastly, I hooked it up to the MP pacific and tested her out, not bad. I have a bit of detail work to do, but the tender is almost done.
Now for the locomotive, I have to add a BL feedwater heater and a skyline casting. I'm thinking of trying to get a concor GS-4 shell to chop for the skyline casting as well as pilot steps since they are similar in design. If not, I'll cast one in resin from my GS-4 on hand. I also have to get the valve gear from an MP mikado for accuracy since the SP didn't have baker valve gear on the P-10. For some reason, I can't get pics to post, but as soon as I do, I'll get some up of the project.
January 7th, 2008, 12:50 PM
Probably a dumb question, and not having been bothered to look at "the book", why the Bachmann Vandy instead of the MP one?
Looking forward to your progress on this one!
January 7th, 2008, 01:15 PM
The MP tender is probably too short.
January 7th, 2008, 04:35 PM
The MP vandy is too short for the P-10 class. They had 6 wheel trucks under
the tender as well as a longer oil bunker. I really wish MP would build a longer vandy, it would fit many more locomotives in the SP roster.
January 7th, 2008, 05:27 PM
What class is the Bachmann Vanderbilt tender that has been used behind the ATSF Northern and the Reading Consolidation??? Seems to me it was a SP type on six wheel trucks. Also, GHQ has a SP tender which might be the P-10, not in commercial production but possibly available, perhaps via Joe Valerio?
January 7th, 2008, 07:18 PM
The bachmann tender for the 4-8-4 is a 120-C-5 (I believe) and was used by the SP behind their 4-10-2's, early cab forwards and some of the MT's. I havn't found any pics of that type behind the pacific types that the SP had as they had either 120-C-2 (4 wheel trucks) or 120-C-3 (6 wheel trucks) tenders. The GHQ version is a likely candidate but I havn't found one yet. The concor vandy is also a candidate with some surgery to the coal bunker as well as shortening it a bit. It appears that there were a couple variants of the 120-C-3 tenders, one has a boxy oil bunker whereas some have a more angular and longer oil bunker. The new bachmann vandy tender fits the latter.
January 7th, 2008, 07:25 PM
Here is a couple of HO engines depicting the two types of 6 wheel tenders. I'm depicting the unpainted version of the tender
January 8th, 2008, 11:23 AM
One of the best things about the B-mann SPECTRUM six axle Vanderbilt is that all of the wheels are live, as opposed to none on its standard line; half wheels live on the MP and one side live on the RR.
The MP is a Harriman that SP used behind 2-6-0s 2-8-0s, some 4-6-0s and 0-6-0s (it might have used them behind some 0-8-0s, as well, but there were not that many SEs in the SF Bay area) . Some of the
4-4-0s that had Vanderbilts also used this tender; most of the E-classes had box tenders, but there were a few that had Vanderbilts.
The RR is based on a B&O type.
An oil bunker deck from a Bachpersonn electrically neutral tender! Thanks for the hint.
When did SP start applying the skyline casing to its pacifics? I am guessing late 1930s to early 1940s, as all of the photographs that I have seen of the pacifics that had them are from the 1940s and 1950s. I have seen photographs of the same locomotives taken in the early 1930s and in the 1920s that did not show them. It also appears that not all of the P-10s received skyline casings. I have never seen a photograph of 2479 with one and I do not recall that it had one when it sat at the Santa Clara County fairgrounds, but my memory may be imperfect. Some of the P-10s also received skirting and Daylight paint to work the San Joaquin trains.
I am assuming that you are using the MP because it runs better than does the RR. Most of the SP's pacifics were of the heavier type, but the runnability of the RR varies wildly model-to-model. An all-wheels-live tender markedly improves the performance of the MPs.
January 8th, 2008, 07:14 PM
The majority of P-10's did not have skirting. Only 4 were streamlined for daylight service. Later in life the side skirts were removed and only the skyline casting remained. This is what I'm going for. I chose the MP pacific because it's wheels are the correct 73 inch diamter that the p-8 and p-10 class had, plus I happended to have one. Wheras the USRA heavy had 79 inch drivers. Also the P-10 fell right between the two USRA types with regards to total weight so the light is actually a better starting point than a heavy pacific model. I've added a TT driver to one side of the loco (it loped badly with two TT's on it) and it pulls 25 cars without a problem. I'll try and get photos of my progress posted tonight.
January 9th, 2008, 03:12 AM
Here are a couple of images of the bmann tender
February 20th, 2008, 04:37 PM
A box arrived from concor yesterday, it had my new GS body shell. I took a few minutes last night and disassembled the shell and found the skyline casting easily came off. After a trial fitting, it will work with the MP pacific body. I just have to do some shortening of the casting as well as remove the domes and stack from the MP loco boiler. I should also be receiving my parts from MP this week with the mikado valve gear that is closer to the sp valve gear used. I'll post some pics here soon with the updates to the loco. Things are comming together for the SP P-10
OC Engineer JD
February 20th, 2008, 04:43 PM
Sweet! Looking forward to those pictures! :)
February 21st, 2008, 07:57 PM
If anyone here as kitbashed a MP loco, you'll know what I'm talking about. I started sanding the details off the boiler in order to fit the skyline casting. Talk about a PITA, I ended up using a rotary sander to shave off the steam and sand domes. I also began on removing the railings, after about an hour with files and a dremel, I had one side worked on, but not finished. I went and purchased some diamond point tips for my dremel in various sizes to try tonight. This is going to take a while in order to prep the boiler. After prep, I have to section the skyline casting for fitting to the boiler. I feel like I've bitten off more than I can chew. After it's finished, the SP lines will only have one streamlined P-10, the rest will remain unstreamlined.
Of course, if I can find someone to cast the finished boiler in metal, then I may have more.... GHQ, are you listening??
February 21st, 2008, 10:56 PM
Sounds like the Mt-4 project I'm planning.....
February 22nd, 2008, 04:09 AM
Here is the P-10 next to the CC GS body shell. I need to steal the skyline casting and front steps for the MP loco
Here is the skyline casting test fitting on the MP, it is a bit long, but will fit nicely after sectioning. it is canted to the side, so it looks a little too big in the picture
February 22nd, 2008, 04:13 AM
More work continued on the boiler tonight. the diamond tips made quick work of the hand rails. I still have more work to do on this side after my battery for my dremel recharges.
All this work to hopefully get this
February 22nd, 2008, 06:04 PM
I sectioned the skyline casting for fitting to the boiler last night and things just were not looking right. The smokebox portion looked appropriate, but the remaining boiler looked smalish under the casting. As I looked over reference photos, I realized the MP's running boards were placed too high on the boiler in comparrison to the SP prototype. Hmmm. Today I ran a bolt through the front of the smoke box on the boiler and stuck it in the lathe. I removed the running boards in front of the firebox as well as the cast in air resivoirs. I decided not to get to crazy on the tapered portion of the boiler since it is tough to do on the lathe, the residual castings will have to be removed by hand.
Now I've come to another conundrum. I'm thinking of hacking a smokebox off of one of my bmann light mountains to graft to the front since it appears to be the appropriate length and turning down the smokebox on the MP body to fit inside. The MP smokebox is just a tad bit too short. Plus the slight increase in size will look more prototypical.
In all actuality, I should just turn a boiler from brass and start there, but what fun would that be.
OC Engineer JD
February 22nd, 2008, 07:23 PM
Wow! Thats alot of work!
January 18th, 2010, 01:54 AM
First thread (I think) in the P-10 kitbash by SPsteam.
January 18th, 2010, 08:19 AM
That will be one cool model. Kind of a poor man's Daylight, just like the real thing! Keep the pics coming please!
January 18th, 2010, 03:37 PM
You have probably seen this photo. The image is not the best because it is a photo of a photo from a book " Southern Pacific in color " by D R Sweetland. Excellent book.
January 18th, 2010, 07:11 PM
This is one of several they semi-streamlined. 2484-86 were fully streamlined with sports cab, looking like a mini-GS class. My next one will be a fully streamlined version, I'm going to use the cab sides from a GS-4 to make the sports cab. I just have to get the parts rounded up. Anyone have a dead bachmann 4-8-2 light mountain that doesn't need its shell anymore?
January 19th, 2010, 03:45 PM
Great thread, SPsteam! The MT class is my favorite and I have been wondering how to make a skyline casing for it. You have answered the question! Looking forward to seeing more of your work.
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