Snohomish to Tukwila Branch???

[Ryan 79]

Ok, what's going on with this? The Dinner Train is gone, the bridge next to 405 is lifted up and moved back about 50 feet, and the bridges over Rainer Avenue are gone, yet I still have seen a couple of trains on this branchline, one in Renton and one in Bellevue, AFTER the bridges were removed. Isn't the whole thing going to be torn up?

And once it is torn up, how does Boeing get planes to the Renton plant?

[BoxcabE50]

What's going on? Sheer and utter stupidity.

A well engineered rail corridor is being removed. Which connects several major communities in the area. Turned from a private, tax paying entity, into a hiking/biking tax eating trail. Jobs gone. And a lot of money as well. At the same time they're talking about a major bond issue to fund expanding rail transit systems in the area. After which will come years of wasteful legal wrangling to establish a new r-o-w. When they could have used this one! DUH.

There should still be rail access from Black River through downtown Renton. Although that will eventually be gone. As will be Boeing... And all those good jobs.

Enough time has passed, that it's getting difficult to recall the NP running on those rails. Hard to even picture their tracks in Renton, and on up to Bellevue. Bummer.

Boxcab E50

[SteamDonkey74]

Boxcab,

Are you saying that people are choosing short term gain over long-term intelligent planning and decision-making?

I'm shocked.

Adam

[BoxcabE50]

Adam-

Ha ha ha... Yup.

I could tour you around that region, and point out all the rails made into trails. Which would have been, at least in some portion, very useable as a basis for the coming rail transit network. Now, most, if not all, are going to require replacement with incredibly costly new rights-of-way.

There is a huge horror story affiliated with that forthcoming vote. Ugh. Am so glad I was able to leave there.

Boxcab E50

[cwwrman]

Yes a great rail corridor that could have very easily been turned into a light rail system through Bellevue, Kirkland, Woodinville, and all the way up to Snohomish. What are our politicians thinking. Oh yeah thats right they arent thinking as they never do. Its all about spending the publics money to get what THEY want and not whats in the publics best interest.

[BoxcabE50]

Yes a great rail corridor that could have very easily been turned into a light rail system through Bellevue, Kirkland, Woodinville, and all the way up to Snohomish. What are our politicians thinking. Oh yeah thats right they arent thinking as they never do. Its all about spending the publics money to get what THEY want and not whats in the publics best interest.

Ryan-

Just look at where you live- At one time, you could take a train in FOUR different directions from Cedar Falls/NB! :tb-shocked:

Boxcab E50

[SteamDonkey74]

Here's a story I recently found.

I don't know where the rails to trails thing came up in this discussion. It looks like it's going rails to an extra lane on the freeway, which is truly sad.




<http://heraldnet.com/article/20071030/NEWS01/710300061>

Spirit of Washington Dinner Train closes
Published: Tuesday, October 30, 2007

By Lukas Velush
Herald Writer

The station may be closed for good to those who had hoped to
ride the Spirit of Washington Dinner Train into Snohomish
County.

The train's best hope -- perhaps its only hope -- for long-term
survival was to move north where it would run from Woodinville
to Snohomish, Eric Temple, owner of the railroad, said Monday.

That dream now appears stalled -- perhaps permanently -- and the
train has ceased operations in Tacoma.

In what was hoped would be a temporary move, the train in August
moved to Tacoma because its usual route along tracks through
King County's east side were closed so I-405 could be expanded.

Some hoped King County would buy the Burlington Northern Santa
Fe tracks from Snohomish to Renton and allow the dinner train to
travel from Woodinville to Snohomish. However, negotiations for
the tracks have stalled.

"Until there is a deal possible from Woodinville to Snohomish,
there's nothing we can do," Temple said. "The problem in Tacoma
is we're burning through the money. I'm unwilling to spend more
money to prop it up (there)."

He said ticket revenue has fallen by 25 percent and that the
cost of operating the dinner train has shot up.

Fifty people who work in the company's Renton office were
notified on Monday that they were being laid off. Most layoffs
were effective immediately.

"I think, for the most part, the employees were very
understanding," Temple said. "They're all very proud of what
they do and they've done a great job. They can certainly sense
that ticket sales weren't as good but they were still pretty
shocked. They all presumed that I would prevail and pull it out.
I failed them."

He said he would hire them back if there is a breakthrough in
securing the tracks from Woodinville to Snohomish.

Temple was devastated that the train is now parked.

"This was my baby," he said. "It wasn't our biggest money-making
business, that's for sure, but it was always something we loved
and took pride in. I always wanted to build the next Space
Needle, something that transcended time. I think we were on our
way to doing that before the sale (of the rail line)."

The latest development came as a surprise to Colleen Hill,
president of Snohomish Chamber of Commerce.

"I have no idea about that," Hill said.

Snohomish officials and business officials remain hopeful that
the dinner train would come to their town.

"Everything we've heard from Eric Temple and dinner train people
indicates that they remain very much interested," city manager
Larry Bauman said.

Herald Writer Yoshiaki Nohara contributed to this report.

Reporter Lukas Velush: 425-339-3449 or lvelush@heraldnet.com (https://secure.spiretech.com/webmail/src/compose.php?send_to=lvelush%40heraldnet.com).

[BoxcabE50]

I don't know where the rails to trails thing came up in this discussion. It looks like it's going rails to an extra lane on the freeway, which is truly sad.

R-T-T is what will probably eventually be happening to much of that route. Business north of Renton, to Woodinville, has essentially been nil for years now. Shippers closed. Others driven to trucks mostly by inadequate rail service.

The involved I-405 work is a widening project. (Which won't permanently solve the specific traffic problems. Which is that I-405 was originally poorly planned. And changed traffic patterns at interchanges having made it a worse mess). This construction takes a chunk of several miles, from near the south end of the RR line. And leaves the rest useless. As it serves nothing. (Except it's a perfect transit route, connecting many residential areas and towns, along the east side of Lake Washington). The rest of that RR is not adjacent to the freeway, such that it would be useable for any real road expansion. So, a trail...

http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/Northwest/King/Construction/#NE112thWidening

Boxcab E50

[SteamDonkey74]

I actually like how rails-to-trails things seem to be implemented around here. It tends to happen where some entity has abandoned a rail line, yanked up all the tracks, and so R-T-T is implemented, when possible and when there is community support, in part to keep the R-O-W intact. Otherwise, these things seem to get wiped off the face of the map.

Seattle has been botching their transportation plan for decades. They think that adding more lanes to a poorly designed and situated freeway will solve everything, but it won't. To lose a rail connection simply because someone wanted to widen a freeway by a lane is really sad.

Oh well, when gas hits 8 bucks a gallon or whatever threshold it will need to hit before the car falls out of favor, our cities will mostly be criss-crossed by these huge rights-of-way formerly called freeways and we can run quadruple main lines everywhere the traffic exists. Woohoo!

Adam

[BoxcabE50]

Seattle has been botching their transportation plan for decades.

Adam-

I know. I was one of many voices, who'd tried for years to redirect Seattle, and King County. But, Seattle has suffered years of buffoonery in the office of mayor. And King County has a complete loon at their helm right now. They have decided this is what they're going to do. And anyone who gets in their way, is quickly, quite deliberately run over.

At least Pierce and Snohomish Counties have done a better job. Tacoma taking a very active part in freight rail service preservation. Albeit troubled at times. Some of that politics. Some being a learning curve.

:cry::no:

Boxcab E50

[Delamaize]

More bad news the spirit of Washington dinner train has closed permntally after rising fuel cost, low ridership, and the fact that they had to hire a helper loco and crew to pull tacoma hill. thanks again Washington state politicians, you a$$hats. this is one of the reasons I sometimes can't stand this place. unfortunately the only way people will learn around here is if they are force feed it. thats Way I wish someone like Bill Gates or one of those big guys with more money than they know what to do with, would just sponsor and fund the damn light rail and transit projects, I will laugh in 10 -20 years when Seattle in in total gridlock constantly, and Olympia is like Seattle is now, and the a$$hats at the capitol are like "we don't know why it is like this, lets add more freeway! that should solve the problem."

Boxcab - you are right about the county's and city of Seattle, and it doesn't help that we got a witch for a Governor that only won because of votes that in ANY other elections wouldn't have counted. in her eyes I guess felons in jail, the dead, and family pets have voting rights.

[SteamDonkey74]

I understand that Seattle area voters shot down a subway deal in the 1970s, one where the Feds would have paid 90% if the local area kicked in 10%.

All those freeways are starting to look very ridiculous now. Seattle ought to have some sort of rapid transit a la the Bay Area's BART or Chicago's Metra, and not just the Sounder, but no.

I love visiting Seattle but I would go nuts if I lived there. (Not that everything is perfect in my hometown/home state.)

Adam

[BoxcabE50]

I understand that Seattle area voters shot down a subway deal in the 1970s, one where the Feds would have paid 90% if the local area kicked in 10%.

Seattle, in that time frame, was a mess. Albeit different from today. That was about the time when they were trying to recover from yet another dolt mayor. And after effects of the infamous "Boeing Bust". A huge chunk of population, and businesses, had left town. So their tax base was a shambles. It took years to recover.

Boxcab E50

[Larry777]

I was very sorry to hear about the Spirit of Washington dinner train folding up. A friend and I had dinner aboard it in February of last year and as we rode along, the waiter informed me that their time was short. As a native of Seattle, and a former employee of Metro Transit, I have watched the city and county make mistake after short-sighted mistake. Most of you have already spelled out the problems so I won't repeat that here. Suffice it to say that transit intelligence, indeed transportation intelligence is one thing that Seattle sorely lacks. I live in LA today and their transportation system isn't much better although we do have a few lightrail lines traversing the old PE rights of way. The dolts here continue to widen freeways and sink money into LAX while ignoring places like Palmdale to dump some of that airplane traffic. How they ever got into power is something that I suppose we are all collectively responsible for. If not for putting them into office, certainly for not kicking them out...!

[Kurt Moose]

I live about 25 minutes south of Bellevue and Kirkland where the good hobby shops are, and it can take almost an hour to get to one, just cause of the stinkin' traffic, stop and go, at 15-20 mph!! And thats if there's no accident that all the 'looky-loo's" can gawk at!! It's just plain insane that they are going to use a perfect rail-corridor for a bike path, that you never see a biker on!! It rains around here enough that only the hardcore biker's will even use it. What's that, 3-4 people a day?!? Verses 100's on trains back and forth?!?! Cost is no object when it comes to thousands of people's sanity driving everyday on I405!! And, I rode the dinner train 3 times and miss it and would go watch it after work some days. Sorry for the rant, just very angry.

[JKD]

The terrible transportation decisions and choices made by the powers that be in the Puget Sound as a whole were part of my desire to find (and eventually accept) a position outside of Western Washington. The loss of the Dinner Train is huge, in my opinion. Not only that, but if you go to widen I405 any further to even deal with the existing let alone future traffic, you'll have to tear down 1/2 of Bellevue. Don't even start looking at I-5 through Seattle either, with the convention center sitting over the freeway, there's no chance to change that route.

Believe it or not, I spend less time in traffic every day in Sacramento, CA than I did living in Bothel, WA and going down 405 to Bellevue every day... and when I was in WA, I was working 6am-3pm, not the 8-5 schedule I have now. Yikes, some really poor and short sighted "planning" (if you can call it that) goes on in WA.

Ok... off my soapbox now.

[BoxcabE50]

JKD-

Essentially the same reason here. Commuting anywhere in the PS region had become an endless project of desperately seeking alternate routes. And hoping others were not chosing the same. Friends in Seattle were constantly asking when we were coming in town to visit. And we'd tell them to send us a helicopter....

That area must surely be the transportation boondoggle capitol of the world.

Boxcab E50

[Delamaize]

JKD-

Essentially the same reason here. Commuting anywhere in the PS region had become an endless project of desperately seeking alternate routes. And hoping others were not chosing the same. Friends in Seattle were constantly asking when we were coming in town to visit. And we'd tell them to send us a helicopter....

That area must surely be the transportation boondoggle capitol of the world.

Boxcab E50


Well finally we have a step in the right direction, with the S.L.U.T. Opening in the last few days, and people are actually RIDING IT. other than the moron that ran a red light and hit one of the HUGE RED TRAMS, and the idiot Bicycelists that decided they would protest the opening and running of the track by putting large berrings in the tracks, it has been a success. Hopefully the light rail from downtown to the airport will be a success too, and mabey people will come to their sences, mabey more will get built!

[BoxcabE50]

...and the idiot Bicycelists that decided they would protest the opening and running of the track by putting large berrings in the tracks,...

Sounds like the same batch of moron bike protesters that are known to go into downtown, and deliberately snarl traffic during rush hours.

:tb-mad:

Boxcab E50

[JKD]

When I lived in Tacoma, I rode "Sounder" to work every day. The trains were great... there were just not enough of them. 2 a day north and 2 a day south was just not enough. I know the service has grown since I moved away, and I know SLUT is opening, but it feels like too little too late.

[cwwrman]

Bad news on the Woodinville sub. We all knew but hoped this day wouldn't come. As I was driving home from work the other day I noticed a big pile of brush stacked up on top of the Wilburton tunnel. As I exited the tunnel and looked towards my right (west), I noticed a shocking and sad sight. THE RAILS HAVE BEEN REMOVED! Yes, Ron Sims has finally got his wish! But as I saw this I was on the phone with one of my model railroad buddies and we both came to the same conclusion. BNSF has made a TERRIBLE mistake. With the hard rains we have here in the PNW and the constant building up around Everett and Edmonds, it is only a matter of time before one of the hillsides become unstable and come down below wiping out the Seattle-Everett mainline. The only way BNSF will be able to get trains east if this happens is to go all the way south to Portland, then east to Spokane, and then finally west back to Everett. If the Woodinville sub would be totally in tact they would only have to go south to Renton then travel due north to Snohomish and the finally west to Everett. In some ways I kind of hope and event like this happens so the powers to be will at that time finally realize how foolish and stupid they really were by making this sale with King Co. But what do I know, I am just a normal everyday Joe and not college educated like the powers to be are.

[BoxcabE50]

In addition to it's on line customers, that Subdivision was used many times as an alternate emergency routing.

No problem. Soon will come your taxes jumping, to build new rail transit on the east side. Even though it's spiderwebbed with mostly excellently located former routes. Prepare for endless court battles, and so forth...

Boxcab E50

[cwwrman]

Yes it was used as an emergency route as I have photos of double stacks going over the Wilburton trestle sometime around 1996-1997 with 2 GP 38-2's on the lead. And if I also remember right, wasn't that the route the MILW used for their southbound route out of Everett-Tacoma?

[BoxcabE50]

Yes. The Milw used that route for at least two daily trains. Can't recall what year that began. It was not immediate after the BN merger. As they still had their Everett Line intact. It was late 1973 at earliest.

Boxcab E50

[mtaylor]

Well finally we have a step in the right direction, with the S.L.U.T. Opening in the last few days, and people are actually RIDING IT. other than the moron that ran a red light and hit one of the HUGE RED TRAMS, and the idiot Bicycelists that decided they would protest the opening and running of the track by putting large berrings in the tracks, it has been a success. Hopefully the light rail from downtown to the airport will be a success too, and mabey people will come to their sences, mabey more will get built!

Please forgive me, but I can't seem to get past that acronym, S.L.U.T.. Who in the right mind would have thought that was a good idea?? Someone is brain dead at the wheel :)

[Delamaize]

Please forgive me, but I can't seem to get past that acronym, S.L.U.T.. Who in the right mind would have thought that was a good idea?? Someone is brain dead at the wheel :)

that is the problem, it was called the "South Lake Union Trolley." they caught it right away, but it was too late, the offical name for it is "south lake union streetcar" but the SLUT acronym stuck.

[YoHo]

Right, They fixed it officially, but who cares what it really is called.
Sorta How BART was originally gonna be Frisco Area Rapid Transit.

[mtaylor]

LOL that's funny :)

[Kevin M]

Last time they tried to detour a entire train over the Woodenville sub it derailed around Maltby (in my dads friend back yard). The problem was and is while the line is fine for the locals the roadbed and ties are not in great shape for big heavy frieght trains. I think if the Scenic sub did was wash out bad it would still be cheaper for the BNSF to detour trains the long way then invest money in the Woodenville sub.
Kevin