Subsidiary companies

[BoxcabE50]

Does anyone have a date for when the WP acquired control of either the Sacramento Northern RY, or the Tidewater Southern RY?

:D

Boxcab E50

[Greg Elems]

The Tidewater Southern was merged into the WP just before the SUNA merged into the UTU. The SN was merged into the WP after the UP took control. That was around 1985 IIRC. After that, the WP stopped showing up on my pay checks. Hope this helps.

Greg

[BoxcabE50]

Greg-

I have a date of December 22, 1982 for the SN and TS being merged into, graemlins/bleh.gif , UP.

I was wondering, when did WP first gain control of the SN and TS? They must have bought stocks, or something, at an earlier date?

:D

Boxcab E50

[Greg Elems]

The TS and SN were owned by the WP but they maintained a separate identity till 1971 for the TS and 1985 for the SN. The seniority rosters were merged on the dates, giving them WP dates and rights on the WP proper. They were owned out right for a long time, but they maintained the independent identity. I'm not sure why. I do know that the SN people held up the UP merger till they voted to accept the WP dates for seniority. It was a complicated affair with the SN as I remember. The old TS people faired much better when they merged prior to the unions SUNA and Brakeman’s union forming the UTU. For rolling stock and engines, yes they disappeared in 1982 but on paper it didn't happen till 1985. I will need to quiz a couple of people I know at work that would remember.

Greg

[BoxcabE50]

Greg-

Would appreciate any further details that you can gather.

:D

Boxcab E50

[Johnny Trains]

Hey Boxcab, one interesting thing I came up with is the fact both those railroads were reclassified as steam from electric.

TIDEWATER SOUTHERN 1912-12/1933 reclassified as steam (class III)

SACRAMENTO NORTHERN 1906-1948 (WP 21-48) reclassified as steam (class I)

[BoxcabE50]

JT-

I once knew a fellow who was quite an admirer of the SN electrification. He owned a large photo collection, etc. Guess that Railway had a small, but fanatical following.

I believe that the SN acquired some of the old Oregon Electric motors. Big B+B+B+B units. Sure would have loved to see those in operation!

:D

Boxcab E50

[signalguy]

Boxcab, send me your snail mail address and I will send some data on the SN electrics.

[BoxcabE50]

Gil-

Will send you a message.

Thanks-

:D

Boxcab E50

[marty coil]

Boxcab
In an article on the SN on wp-empire site, it gives a date of 1921 that the WP aquired the SN. Mike Hinkle's WP site in the resource pages has a great amount on data on all of the WP subs.

[BoxcabE50]

Marty-

That's a really nice site! Thanks!

:D

Boxcab E50

[marty coil]

Boxcab
Yeah. Mike has got alot of WP info on his site. I think he has done a great job in providing a place to get WP info.
Just got back from my LHS which is about an hour away. Found out that the MGR. of the hobby shop just took a full time job at the Portola Rail Museum.
Don't know what they are trying to restore, but, word has it they are going to use F's for the Zepher trip in April.
Marty

[BoxcabE50]

Marty-

If using F's, I'm sure hoping someone will be posting a whole bunch of photos for that trip! What I'd originally read was the Zephyr cars would merely be appended to an Amtrak train.

:D

Boxcab E50

[marty coil]

On the site that is advertising the trip, they said (Jan.) that the plan was to run a seperate train and run it with the F"s and a backup Amtrak loco. They also said it would depend on the status and readiness of those locos. I think there are still three, two in Portola and one in Susuin. Not really sure of my facts here.

[Johnny Trains]

Can you post a photo of those bad boys Boxcab?

[BoxcabE50]

JT-

Am far from California. And have no photos to offer. :( Am hoping that someone else will do so.....

:D

Boxcab E50

[marty coil]

Boxcab
Sorry. the ad had no photos. Strange, now to think of it. They had no photos of the Zepher cars either.
One more thing. The Zepher actually went thru the Feather River canyon, not over Donner as this trip is advertised.

[BoxcabE50]

I've been trying to locate the web page that had the information. It was a rail tour company. If I find it, I'll post the link.

:D

Boxcab E50

[marty coil]

Boxcab
It's trainsunlimitedtours.com

[BoxcabE50]

Marty-

Got it. That was the site I was looking for. Have a bookmark now.

Wish they'd have the Amtrak "back-up" power right light at a distance behind the train. Mixing it in completely spoils the effect. Oh well.

:D

Boxcab E50

[Greg Elems]

Sorry for the unfortunate news gentlemen. There are no WP f units even close to running on the mainline pulling a passenger train. The two at Portola need major work to get their blue cards, the one at Rio Vista is not only in need of a blue card but it is currently land locked. The WP 913 in Sacramento isn't close to a blue card. So I don't know how an F unit in WP paint will pull the train. Now I do have some shots of the f's in Portola if anyone would like to see them.

Greg

[BoxcabE50]

Greg-

What type of work do they need? I'd suppose that this means wheels, brake systems, and?

graemlins/222.gif

Boxcab E50

[Greg Elems]

I can't say for the 917 in Rio Vista, but the 921 and 805 need a lot of work. The 921 will be pulled out of service hopefully this year and and major work done on the prime mover and such. The brake stands on all three are not FRA compliant, but might be acceptable if placed under museum fleet status. Since they all have been retired, they will need to be inspected for FRA compliance to get the blue card. Once that happens, they fall under the rules just like a working unit on a railroad. As I understand it, 913 in Sacramento has thin flanges along with the same issues of the other F's. You have to remember, the 921 was retired by UP and donated to the FRRS. It has worked as a museum unit ever since and not had any real work done on it. 917 is in the same boat, and has been used less but still needs attention. Reliability is a key factor, none of them would meet UP's reliability standards currently. It would take some major cash donations to get all three F's up and running before the WP Historical meeting in April. I will talk to a friend at the FRRS and see what he knows about the trip you guys are talking about.

Greg