Norfolk Southern Berkshires

[Petey]

Hello,
I'm looking for pictures/info of the above 2-8-4s. These were also the ones that ended up on the National Railways of Mexico (FdeM) in the #33-- series. I believe these were the smallest/lightest Berks made. I have a Mantua Berk w/their Pacific boiler shell, so this would make a pretty small engine, and a possiblity of modeling this road's engines. Lacking the above help, I'm thinking of mounting Mantua's heavy boiler on this chassis.
Any help?

[Comet]

Petey,
I'll check some of my N&W reference books and get back to you. In the mean time if you can get your hands on a copy of the N&W book by Prince, it has very good coverage of the N&W steam fleet.
Bill

[fitz]

Man, that's a tough one. Those are elusive engines, as far as anything being written or published about them. I can't find anything except Wes Barris' site showing that NS owned 5 built by Baldwin. Do you know any more about their specs? :confused:

[ 06. August 2003, 00:58: Message edited by: fitz ]

[Comet]

Sorry Petey.
I wasn't able to find any info on them. I was in hopes that the N&W books would also include the Norfolk Southern units.
One suggestion would be to contact the N&W Historical Society at the link below and see if any of their members could help.
NWHS Link (http://www.nwhs.org/)
Good luck,
Bill

[pjb]

Prince also wrote a book on the Norfolk and Southern which has photos of their 2-8-4s . They were constrained by plethora of wooden trestles, and 85-105 lb. rail from buying heavier power. They dieselized their mainline with Ao-1-Ao + Ao-1-Ao Baldwin DEs for similar reasons.

These locos were part of first swindle that was orchestrated by McGuinnis (as a railroad prexy), that came to public attention. He went on to loot the New Haven , and finally go to prison over frauds perpertrated when he ran the B&M.

The sale of the Berks to NdeM at fire sale prices , was pulled off since thre were crooks on both sides of the border , and no way to trace the kickbacks involving Central American banks could be determined.

Builders photos also exist from the usual sources, and if you get in touch with Harold Vollrath, M.D. McCarter , et al - they will be happy to sell you prints of these locomotives.
Good-Luck, PJB

[LadySunshine]

Hi Petey here is a photo of one of your loco's:

http://www.steamlocomotive.com/berkshire/ns602.jpg

[ajy6b]

First, do not confuse Norfolk and Western (N&W) with Norfolk and Southern. They were two separate entities. Norfolk and Southern was bought or taken over by the Southern sometime in late 60's or 70's. The name was resurrected to Norfolk Southern during the merger of the Southern and the N&W. The Southern still owned the name and it helped facilitate the merger and sharing of assets etc., i.e. legal stuff.

To the best of my knowledge the N&W did not have any 2-8-4 Berkshire class engines. All the Nickel Plate Berks were long retired before the N&W took over the Nickel Plate, Wabash, or W&LE. It is reported from some good sourecs that the W&LE had some Berks rusting out in a deadline when they were absorbed by the N&W, Nickel Plate.

I am not saying the N&W did not run any Berkshires. When the N&W ran the last Pocohantas passenger train, it was pulled by Nickel Plate 759, on the eve of Amtrak. The 759 is sitting in Steamtown awaiting restoration.

As for regular freight service. The Berkshires were mainly known for fast freights on flat terrain. This type of territory on the N&W was handled by the 2-6-6-4 Class A's and in the mountains the 2-8-8-2 Class Y's ruled. The J's handled most of the passenger service. The J's replaced the heavy 4-8-2 Mountains. After WWII the N&W streamlined some 4-8-2's to look like J's. They were in the K class or were referred to as baby J's. The J's were in the 600 number series and the baby J's in the 100 number series.

Hope that helps.

BTW good luck finding the N&W Prince book without costing you and arm and a leg, along with your first born :D

[fitz]

Barb, that photo of the N&S Berk sure looks like it has Southern heritage even before the merger. Wonder how much they weighed, driver size, etc. :confused:

[Comet]

ajy6b, I sold my N&W by Prince book about a year ago on eBay for $135.00
Are they higher than that now?

[ajy6b]

Wabash,

I saw one as high as $350 at a train show. Of course it hadn't sold. But the book appeared to be mint. But I heard the going price was between $200 to $300. But to be honest with you. The only one I saw for sale was at the train show. The other prices were what some members of the NWHS said the books were going for. I wish I would have known about your book on e-bay.

[Petey]

Hi Folks,
Thanks for the help. Unfortunately I am not sophistcated enough to know where the "usual sources" for photos (builder's) would be found. Thanks for the photo of #602.
I now have pics of #s 600&602. Builder's photos would be even better. I did find this humangous magazine index, and lo and behold, there was an article in the Sept '84 Trains concerning "Bantamweight Berkshire". by Gary Dolzall. I ordered it and found out the following. NS, 733 miles, Norfolk to Charlotte; 5 Berks; superheated, 23 1/2" cyl, 335,400 massive pounds eng wt. There are more particulars I will provide, if emailed. dlong@ktc.com. It's past my bedtime, and I am out of steam, myself.
Denis