European trains

[Lindalace9]

Hi All,
I've recently spent 2 weeks in Germany.....
a whirlwind tour that touched many of the leading cities.....Hamburg, Bremen, Berlin, Dresden,
Munich, Erfurt, Wurzburg, Freiberg, Frankfurt,
and Heidelberg. And what did I see everywhere?
Hmmmm? Trains, that's what. While cruising on the Rhine River I could see trains on both sides of the river......at least one every 15 minutes or so. The great majority of these are passenger trains. And every city and town has their trolley cars...schnellbahn......or rapid transit. They are modern, quiet and efficient. Why have we in America missed the boat......or the train in this case? Politicians and interest groups bellow about air pollution. What is more polluting than
millions of 18 wheelers or smelly city buses???
True.........their towns and cities are small compared to some of ours but I think people would be more inclined to use "mass transit" if it were more convenient. This really has me annoyed.

An interesting addendum......Gov. Pataki of New York has signed a bill that would require more
freight to be moved by rail. This appears to be
the beginning of a limitation on the number of trucks on our highways.

[ 20 August 2001: Message edited by: Lindalace9 ]</p>

[watash]

Welcome back home Linda, even if youre a nnoid, I mean annoyed!HA! Maybe we can write a nasty letter to Bushy Baby and he'll put trollies back on the streets! I for one would smell coal smoke than diesel fuems any day! :D

[Lindalace9]

Hi Watash,

Thanks for the welcome home but it's hard to believe it's over. I went with less than great
enthusiasm and had a wonderful time.
I too love the smell of soft coal burning
but those days are over. I was about to write that they will never come back......but the way
things are going.....environmental extremists
preventing oil exploration, mid-east sultans
squeezing us, and the scientific community without a clue as to how to neutralize atomic waste......who knows what kind of energy
will be fashionable 50 years from now? An
interesting fact for you railroad enthusiasts
out in the "sticks".......may I call Texas "the sticks"??? (just teasing)......the large rail yards in New York City......even the one on the west side of Manhattan......are still there.
There was talk of re-development....even building a new stadium....but nothing has been done.
There may be hope for bringing back high speed freight trains. And if the Arabs and environmentalists have their way......how about
an atomic powered 4-8-8-4....maybe even double headed......speeding across New Jersey into Pennsylvania and Ohio and beyond.

[fitz]

Welcome back, Lindalace. You are not far wrong. The Multitudes of SUVs are about to use up our entire oil supply, and all of those crybabies who badmouthed the rails and had the tracks torn up will be deMANDING the return of trains!! What goes around comes around. We'll probably be burning coal in them too. :D BTW, my other favorite thing about Germany is their bier. Did you try any?

[Johnny Trains]

Linda,
The rail yards on the Westside of Manhattan are gone! I should know, I played in them as a kid and still live 3 blocks away!
Donald Trump is building 16 highrises over the old 66 acre yard. But, Amtrak uses two remaining tracks to run their Empire Corridor trains out of Penn Station!
I watched them rip up the tracks a few years back!
I actually got some date nails before the tracks were removed. One says, '18. :D
John (Upper Westsider for life.) smile.gif

[Johnny Trains]

I spent a few days in Rome back in January.
I rode the subway a bunch of times, rode one commuter train and saw the trolleys and long distance trains.
I also rode the buses. Even with the rather extensive array of trains, and along with electric buses, I was stunned at the pollution spewing from ancient diesel buses. Unreal. My friend in Rome told me they were 20 years behind the times, and hopefully all diesel buses will be soon gone. It's terrible to think what pollution is doing to that incredible city!
And that's coming from a native New Yorker! Phew!
John

[Johnny Trains]

I'm sorry, but I meant to say that the yard you see belongs to the LIRR. There were several freight yards along the North River. Guess I just get sentimental about my old stomping grounds.
Please don't build a new Yankee Stadium over those yards. I can't imagine what the subways would be like during games. At least in the Bronx it isn't as crazy as all the lines that would feed people onto 34th st. heading west to the new ballpark.
AHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!

[Alan]

Linda, I know what you mean about the transport systems in Germany (and the rest of europe). As an Englishman, I was always envious of the trams and light rail systems in places like Switzerland, Germany, etc. whilst on visits to those countries. So I can understand how an American feels :eek:

But we are now catching up a bit, as our government has finally understood the phrase "integrated transport systems" :rolleyes: Many British cities are now building, or converting existing tracks to light rail systems, using modern electric trains. I think that the state of the road congestion, and pollution, this will become more the 'norm' in coming years.

[Lindalace9]

My goodness,
My li'l note got a lot of attention.
I'll try to answer everyone in this note.
Yes, I like German bier. I didn't "try" it.....
I practically bathed in it. Well......that's a slight exagerration. Each town has their own brewery, each bier tastes different and I never found one that I didn't like.

Johnny.... I'm so sorry to hear that Donald Trump has finally gotten his way with the west side yards.
I knew it was planned but I was still hoping
it wouldn't happen. I'll bet he has his eye on the Mott Haven yard and The Sunnyside Yard too.
Quite often I drive up 10th Avenue and I'd love to
stop at 37th St. to look at the old Pennsylvania
(Amtrak) tracks....but one can't even stop there,
no less park. Also, a lady walking around there
would attract all kinds of unwanted attention.

Alan dear, I enjoyed the London underground.
It is so clean and easy to use. Unfortunately,
I didn't have the time but I would like to have taken a train to Stratford-on-Avon. I did
take the Channel train to Paris though. It was expensive but how often do you do that? Besides,
I still would have had to pay airfare and then a taxi from DeGaulle Airport to the center of Paris.
While in Paris I took the commuter train to Versailles. This sounds like I was on a train
vacation but I wasn't.

[Lindalace9]

Johnny......you've got my attention. You mentioned The Empire Corridor. Now,.....when the
train leaves Penn Station it switches to a northbound track......the two that you mentioned
that run through those old yards. These tracks reach about 57th St???????? the northern limit of the yard?? Is that approximately correct? Where
do the tracks go from there? I assume that this
train ends up on the 4 tracks that run along the Harlem River......The Harlem Division I believe...
Or are there tracks that run all the way up the west side to connect with the Harlem Division?

[Johnny Trains]

Linda,
The tracks run Northbound underground from Penn Station, under open-cuts, under buildings (bet 10th and 11th Aves.) and see daylight around 59th St.
Then they run through two tracks on the east side of the old NYC yard. 59th to 72nd Sts. Right under Donald's buildings!
They enter the tunnel under the Henry Hudson Parkway at 72nd St., then exit the tunnel at 122nd St. running North alongside the highway in an open- cut sort of manor.
They cross over the swing bridge at Spuyten Duyvil and run along the Hudson line to Albany and Montreal.
Are you a New Yorker?
Johnny smile.gif

[Lindalace9]

Yes, John.....I was born and raised in New York
but not in Manhattan, so I'm not completely familiar with all the yards and all the track connections. I am familiar with the tracks that run along Park Avenue, cross the river at 132nd
St. and then follow the river past Yankee Stadium
to Spuyten Dyvil where that railroad bridge
connects Manhattan with The Bronx.
My Grandfather was a conductor on The NYC and
could name every stop from Grand Central to Buffalo. It is from him that I inherited my love of trains.

[Lindalace9]

Alan,......you've brought back a few memories
of my visit to London. I stayed in Kensington
and used the South Kensington station. In order to get to the Yellow Line ( I think), one must descend on two escalators........down, down....
where Londoners sought shelter during the blitz.

[Johnny Trains]

Hi Linda,
Your Grandfather must have had some great stories!
Unfortunately, I'm the only train buff in the immediate family!
I'm heading to New England with my daughter tomorrow (college tours/interviews) and then on to Utica. Hope to see some tains along the way!
Also hope to talk to you again!
I'll be back Thursday night.
smile.gif
John

[Lindalace9]

John......lots of luck to your daughter. This
is such an important time in her life. I hope she
gets into a good school.

I didn't know that there is a tunnel at 72nd St & H. Hudson Pky. How about that!!!


I drove up 10th Avenue this evening. In my note the other day I said I'd like to stop at 37th Street........WRONG.....it's 32nd Street.
The tracks in Penn Station are under the Post Office which I believe is between 32nd & 33rd St.
Anyway.........Talk on Thursday.

[ 25 August 2001: Message edited by: Lindalace9 ]</p>

[Hytec]

Linda, the Harlem Division ran north out of GCT, about 15 miles east of the Hudson Division. The Harlem ran along the Connecticut and Massachusets borders, through White Plains, Mount Kisco, Brewster, Dovers Plains, etc. It is now part of Metro-North, a 75 mile long commuter system under control of The City. Gone are the days of those wonderful NYC K's and J's running at better than 60 mph on 5-10 minute headways during rush-hours, some even going all the way to Chatham, and then on to Pittsfield and North Adams, MA.

Speaking of the West Side Freight Line, it ran inside the second floor of the building in which my father worked for nearly 40 years. I watched many freights from his office on the sixth floor. smile.gif An excellent description of the West Side Freight Line improvements completed in 1934 is at http://www.railroad.net/nyc/westside.html

[ 26 August 2001: Message edited by: Hank Coolidge ]</p>

[Lindalace9]

Thanks Hank, This is very interesting. The St. John's Park Terminal is still there as is the viaduct.

[Railfan462]

Hi Linda, I worked for a number of years just 2 blocks away from that terminal. The building has been well maintained though now it is used just
for trucks. I have enjoyed following this discussion very much since I researched much of
New York City history while in school.

[Johnny Trains]

Hi Linda!
Just got back last evening. Thanks for the good wishes for the kid! smile.gif
I dragged her around looking for trains in our spare time!
But we saw 4 great schools.
The tunnel runs under the Henry Hudson from 72nd to 122nd St. There was a colony of homeless in there for years. I walked the entire length one time and believe me, it was something I'd never do again!
Let me tell you what we saw on our journey:

WATERVILLE MAINE:
-GUILFORD SPRINGFIELD TERMINAL YARD
-THE LAST STEAM ENGINE TO RUN ON THE BOSTON AND MAINE (PACIFIC #470. LAST RUN 1954), ON DISPLAY AT THE GUILFORD YARD.
-MAINE CENTRAL ENGINES
-SPRINGFIELD TERMINAL ENGINES
-FREIGHT CARS FROM ALL HIS LINES
-SPRINFIELD TERMINAL FREIGHT HOUSE

WORCHESTER MASS:
-WORCHESTER UNION STATION (B&A, MAINE CENTRAL, NYNH&H). NEWLY RESTORED STATION! WOW!
-PROVIDENCE AND WORCHESTOR ENGINES AND PIGGYBACK YARD
-P&W'S EXCURSION TRAIN PARKED IN A YARD ALONG THE ROAD
- THE "T" COMMUTER TRAIN BOSTON BOUND AT UNION STATION.

BUZZARDS BAY (CAPE COD):
-THE OLD RR BRIDGE OVER THE CAPE COD CANAL. AMAZING!
-SWITCH TOWER AND STATION TOO! WENT INSIDE. CHAMBER OF COMMERCE NOW.
(DON'T KNOW WHO BUILT IT.......HAVE TO RESEARCH THAT. NO TRAINS OVER IT IN THE LAST 5 YEARS. IT'S UNDERGOING A MAJOR REHAB. AMTRAK THE LAST ONES TO USE IT.)

UTICA NY:
-NYS&W YARD
-ADIRONDACK SCENIC RR EQUIPMENT (AND ON THE MOVE TOO!)
-TWO STEAM ENGINES IN THE YARD
-AN OLD METRO NORTH RDC
-AN OLD ERIE LACAWANNA FREIGHT HOUSE
-(MISSED THE TRAIN STATION THERE. HEARD IT'S BEAUTIFUL!)
-ALSO A NYS&W ENGINE BEHIND A FENCE. NOT THE BEST OF NEIGHBORHOODS.

GENERAL:
-ALSO SAW TRAINS FROM A DISTANCE UNDER US, BESIDE US........SOME JUST HEADLIGHTS IN THE DISTANCE......
-SAW A COUPLE OF NORFOLK SOUTHERN TRAINS AROUND THE INTERSECTION OF RT17 AND THE NYS THRUWAY.
-ALSO PASSED BY SIGNS FOR MANY RR ATTRACTIONS THAT WE DIDN'T HAVE TIME FOR..........

Well, that's all for now! smile.gif

JOHNNY TRAINS redface.gif
I'M BUSHED! 1640 MILES IN 6 DAYS!

[Railfan462]

You certainly covered a lot of ground. I wonder..........was your daughter just....thrilled?
;)

[Lindalace9]

Hi Johnny,
You really made the most of that trip.
I was unaware of the tunnels on the West side of Manhattan. Who maintains them? Is there electric power along those tracks? Working signals?
Or do they only turn on the power when they plan to run a train?

[Johnny Trains]

I think my daughter lost it when I dragged her into Worcester Union Station. LOL. But she improved in Utica. LOL. I let her work the camera.

Linda, the "tunnel" is a tunnel, but the park was built "over" it. It isn't deep underground. I guess it's really at ground level along the waterside but it doesn't see daylight until 122nd St. There are plenty of vents and strange old iron doors along the highway and along the park retaining walls that you can peer into (and see nothing but darkness). You know, our landscape is somewhat like the Palisades over in Jersey, (leveled down quite a bit) so my building on Riverside Drive is above the trains while the trains run parallel to the river.
It's only diesel, no electric. I believe trains have been running along here since 1846.

Did everyone know that the grand Hoboken Festival is coming up this Saturday?????? If you love trains but have never been there........GO!!!!!!!!!
It's going to be a good one indeed.
I hear Amtrak will have a complete Acela train to walk through! And lots, lots more!!!!!!!!!!

Linda, my daughter just finished reading "The Mole People". It's about the tunnel dwellers in the City. There is mention of the tunnel by me. I must get it from her and read it. Although I've heard that some of it is untrue. But I've seen them come and go from the tunnel.

Hope everyone can get to Hoboken. It's a great event! 10-5 pm. Sept. 8th!

Johnny Trains :eek:

[Lindalace9]

Where in Hoboken is the location of that event?
If I'm free, I might go.

[Johnny Trains]

Linda,
All you do is take the Path train to Hoboken! You come up 3 feet from the doorway to the station, and you will see the antique buses right there also! There was a warning in another message board that said there will also be two block parties in Hoboken. DO NOT ATTEMPT TO DRIVE!
This thing attracts a lot of people! There will be some rides given behind old diesels. An Acela train will be there. Old cabooses. Plenty of Jersey Transit stuff. Morristown and Erie equipment. An old Newark Subway system PCC..........and so on..........and plenty of fun givaways such as pads and pencils and cups, fun stuff to promote NJT and sometimes Amtrak.
If you've ever been to Hoboken, you know it's a cool place! HOBO-KEN!
Let me know if possible if you are going.
smile.gif
PATH FROM WTC: CHANGE AT GROVE ST.
PATH FROM 6TH AVE 34TH,I4TH: DIRECT ABOUT 12 MINUTES MORE OF LESS. :D
JOHNNY TRAINS

[Johnny Trains]

THERE ARE 16 TRACKS IN THE STATION. MANY OF WHICH WILL HAVE TRAINS ON DISPLAY. ONLY 1 OR 2 TRACKS REMAIN OPEN FOR COMMUTERS.
IT TAKES OVER THE WHOLE STATION AND THEN THERE'S THE STREET FESTIVAL OUTSIDE TOO! smile.gif
JOHNNY

[Lindalace9]

Thanks for the info Johnny. If I can make it I'll
go by way of Penn Station, etc. I do have a busy day tomorrow though.

[Johnny Trains]

Linda,
You won't regret going! Hope you can make it!
I'm up early, couldn't sleep waiting for it! LOL!
Hope others in the forum can join in too.
It's a great day!
Johnny Trains

[Johnny Trains]

New Jersey Transit's "TRY TRANSIT" Fest (AKA: HOBOKEN FESTIVAL) was a blast!
The crowd estimates were from 9 to 15 thousand people!
It was great! :eek:
Next stop, Metro North's Open House at Croton-Harmon.
Anyone know the date yet? :D