The Joint Line Employees Time Table

[Ron Carlisle]

Can anybody please advise me where I can get copies of the Joint Line Employees Time Table (i.e. a Working Time Table) for 1964, 1970, 1980 and 1985. I need these so I can work out what trains ran in order to model Palmer Lake

------------------
Ron Carlisle

[slimjim375]

Hi Ron,

Welcome aboard. I put the word out on the DGRW List. This is a holiday weekend, so might take a couple days for an answer, good or bad. Will post anything I get.

Jim Harrawood

[slimjim375]

Hi Ron,

We got lucky.
This is from Keith Williams. http://www.sound.net/~drgw/
--------------------------------------
Jim,

I have a 1977 Joint Line TT and a copy of a 1989 Joint Line TT
and according
to both of them, no trains run on the Joint Line, i.e., no
trains are listed
in either of them. Unless these two that I have are "freaks,"
don't expect
to find much train information in any of the others.

Keith
------------------------------------------
This is from Bob Webber. http://www.concentric.net/~Rswebber/library.shtml
--------------------------------------
I have one for 71, 83, and 75 - no mention of trains.
--------------------------------------
Like I said before, if anything else comes up I'll let you know.
I think the above means no Rio Grande trains except for extras.

Jim Harrawood


[This message has been edited by slimjim375 (edited 22 April 2000).]

[This message has been edited by slimjim375 (edited 22 April 2000).]

[slimjim375]

More info. The wires are hot tonight.

Joint Line Employees Time Table No. 2, effective October 25,
1964
shows D&RGW trains 1 and 2 (Royal Gorge) and 3 and 4 (Missouri
Pacific's Colorado Eagle) and C&S trains 21 and 22 (Texas Zephyr
and
27 and 28 (Gulf Coast Special). There was no ETT issued in 1970.
No.5
was effective June 11, 1968 and No. 6 was effective May 16,
1971. No.
3 effective October 9, 1966 shows only numbers 1 and 2, 21 and
22,
and 27 and 28. No. 4 effective April 30, 1967 shows numbers 1
and 2,
27 and 28 and ATSF 191 and 200 (the Chief - believe it or
not)which
was the Denver to La Junta train for several years. No. 5 shows
only
191 and 200 (no name given now)and No. 6 does not show any
trains.
The last specific Joint Line Public Time Table was issued
November
16, 1965. Although the Employee Time Tables show exact times for
each
station there were only a few "flag or conditional" stops
actually
made and after 1968 all those depots had closed. I remember that
if
you wanted to have 191 stop at Palmer Lake (which it would as
the
only stop between Denver and Colorado Springs) you had to call
(a
long distance number from Palmer Lake) several hours before the
train
left Denver to make arrangements for it to stop. Then there was
the "problem" of paying for a ticket as the conductor often did
not
have change, so you would have to get off at Colorado Springs,
hustle
in to the station and purchase it. Going north on 200 if you
wanted
to get off at Palmer Lake you had to make sure the conductor
walked
up to the engine during the station stop at Colorado and told
the
engineer as often unit (was a single with a baggage and coach)
was a
freight unit (sometimes a GP) and there was no "signal cord"
from the
coach to the engine for the conducter to pull to signal a stop
at the
next station (and of course this was before radio communication
at
least on that train).

[slimjim375]

Still more. You'll have to excuse the format. These are copyed from e-mail's.

Looking in Denver Division #1 for 5/5/63, I see:

Southbound:
#27 C&S Gulf Coast Special, Leaving South Denver 8:10 p,
arriving
Bragdon 10:12 p
#3 D&RGW Colorado Eagle, Leaving South Denver 4:15 p,
arriving Bragdon
6:29 p
#21 C&S Texas Zephyr, Leaving South Denver 12:55 p, arriving
Bragdon
3:01 p
#1 D&RGW Royal Gorge Gulf Coast Special, Leaving South Denver
9:10 a,
arriving Bragdon 11:31 a

Northbound:
#28 C&S Gulf Coast Special, Leaving Bragdon 3:38 p, arriving
South
Denver 5:55p
#4 D&RGW Colorado Eagle, Leaving Bragdon 7:55 a, arriving
South Denver
10:08 a
#22 C&S Texas Zephyr, Leaving Bragdon 4:13a, arriving South
Denver 6:20
a
#2 D&RGW Royal Gorge Gulf Coast Special, Leaving Bragdon
12:20 p,
arriving South Denver 2:50 p

No mention of freight....

Now looking in Joint Line #4 for 4/30/67, I see:

Southbound:
#191 AT&SF The Chief, Leaving South Denver 8:10 p, arriving
Bragdon 10:22
p
#27 C&S Texas Zephyr, Leaving South Denver 8:20 p, arriving
Bragdon
10:46 p
#1 D&RGW Royal Gorge Gulf Coast Special, Leaving South Denver
9:10 a,
arriving Bragdon 11:31 a

Northbound:
#200 AT&SF The Chief, Leaving Bragdon 2:08 p, arriving South
Denver
4:35p
#22 C&S Texas Zephyr, Leaving Bragdon 4:38a, arriving South
Denver 6:50
a
#2 D&RGW Royal Gorge Gulf Coast Special, Leaving Bragdon
12:20 p,
arriving South Denver 2:45 p

Again. no mention of freight....

[slimjim375]

Still more.

As Keith and Bob reported, no trains were listed in Joint Line
timetables
after 1971. That's because there were no scheduled trains on the
line once
passenger service ended.

The MoPac's Colorado Eagle (Rio Grande trains 3/4) ran until May
16, 1966,
the C&S Texas Zephyr (21/22) until May of 1967, the Grande's
Royal Gorge
(1/2) until July 27, 1967. The Santa Fe's connection to La Junta
(191/200)
ran until Amtrak day in May of 1971. After that there were only
unscheduled
freights, although there were regular trains: 165/166 and
167/168 for the
Grande, 77/78 and 151/152 for the C&S/BN. Santa Fe's train
numbers were
more confusing. Add to that unit coal trains and extra
movements.

As you can see, what trains ran depends on what years you are
interested
in, but in any case an employee timetable will not list all of
them.

[wig-wag-trains.com]

Wow. what a great thread! Even better to find this gem by accident thru the listing at the bottom of another!