DRGW Krauss-Maffei Diesel Hydraulics

[Ron Carlisle]

http://www.trainboard.com/confused.gifAfter initial testing on both the Joint Line and the Moffat Road, can anybody please tell me if these three locomotives (#4001-4003)worked in regular freight service, on what route, and on what kind of trains, before they were hived off to the Southern Pacific.
I have tried checking through various books and web sites, but with no success. http://www.trainboard.com/frown.gif
I am now hoping that you Rio Grande specialists can help me http://www.trainboard.com/biggrin.gif You havn't let me down yet. http://www.trainboard.com/smile.gif

Ron Carlisle.

Rio Grande - Main Line Thru the Rockies.

[slimjim375]

Hey Ron. Why do you always ask the hard ones http://www.trainboard.com/biggrin.gif. I will do this in three posts and more if I get additional information. BTW, the shortest and probably best reply is from a friend in AU. "A dismal failure I believe."

Horsepower: 4000

Wheel Arrangement: C-C

Weight: 330327#

Tractive Effort: 104080#

DRGW Class: DE C-C 104, AKA ML-4

Builder: Krauss-Maffei


Final Road# 4001

Builder# 18697

Purchased: 6/1961

Retired: 2/6/1964

Sold to SP, 11/1965, # 9021

Renumbered to # 9103

Retired: 12/31/1967, scrapped



Final Road# 4002

Builder# 18697

Purchased: 6/1961

Retired: 2/6/1964

Sold to SP, 11/1965, # 9022

Renumbered to # 9104

Retired: 12/31/1967, scrapped



Final Road# 4003

Builder# 18697

Purchased: 6/1961

Retired: 2/6/1964

Sold to SP, 11/1965, # 9023

Renumbered to # 9105

Retired: 12/31/1967, scrapped



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Jim Harrawood #85
Utah Rails (http://www.crosswinds.net/~utahrails/index.html)
D&RGW---Main Line Thru The Rockies

[slimjim375]

During the days when the old "Mile Hi "club was still meeting in
Denver,
several members were old D&RGW shop men of different crafts,
after a Rio
Grande slide program the talk centered around the KMs .The big
problems:
engines always starved for air in the tunnels if not the lead
unit, Hence
lots of work on the air ducts and engine cooling systems(From
the
sheetmetal workers) The Boilermakers(Plumbing) they were forever
changing
out fittings on the Many Hydraulic systems, lots of "blown
joints" hoses,
there was lots of work done to replace many of the non drive
hydro
systems.The Electrician did work on changhing the cab control
systems from
hydro to electric(the throttle and related controls) for ease of
operation
and for MUing with other power.The brake systems had lots of
work done on
them, lots of freezing problems , also other control lines had
freezing
problems. The crews loved them or hated them, many feared that
the big
drive u joint right under the cab floor would fail and come
flying up into
the cab, lots of wheel slip when starting on a grade, that would
cause for
a very bumpy ride. One retired engineer said that when they
were all 3
running and if you could hold the main they wern't bad, he also
stated that
the German engineers couldn't belive the way that the US
railroads ran
their power for 45 days without shut down,he said that in
Germany in the
early 1960s a loco goes out for about 8 hours of work and then
is shut
down for cleaning and service.The Dyno car seemed to always go
with what
ever KM units were out on the road,in the early years lots of
testing and
crews from both the factory and the D&RGW lived aboard, later
the joke was
that the Dyno car was "full of spare hoses and fuses"By the time
the units
were sold to the SP most of the problems had been worked out.But
in the
eyes of the railroad the units were a failure, to much down
time, to much
shop crew expense and the GP30s and F7s were moving the freight
with very
little problems and new GP35s were on the way so it was good buy
to the
KMs.

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Jim Harrawood #85
Utah Rails (http://www.crosswinds.net/~utahrails/index.html)
D&RGW---Main Line Thru The Rockies

[slimjim375]

I vaguely recall some stories about these units. IF I remember
correctly, they were actually more than the Rio Grande bargained
for,
with more TE than anything else on the railroad then, which
translated
into pulled drawbars in the mountains. They also had troubles
with the
hydraulics in winter and didn't have people experienced in
heavy-duty
hydraulics to maintain them. Finally, while as I remember they
weren't
outrageously maintenance-intensive, there were enough troubles
with them
that it was too expensive to keep parts for three they had and
they were
too troublesome to justify getting more.

They couldn't have been too bad since they weren't scrapped, but
sold to
SP (of course some might say that was tantamount to the same
thing!).

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Jim Harrawood #85
Utah Rails (http://www.crosswinds.net/~utahrails/index.html)
D&RGW---Main Line Thru The Rockies

[tunnel88]

I recall some photos of em in action but i don't recall the exhaust. Did they smoke or not?

[Ron Carlisle]

Jim,
Thanks a lot for all that information. http://www.trainboard.com/biggrin.gif

Judging by what you said, the couple of photographs that I have seen, must be a bit of a rarity, especially one of all three units running west of Glenwood Springs.

With reference to "a dismal failure" thats sounds like most of the first phase diesels that were tried out on this side of the pond. http://www.trainboard.com/redface.gif
Mind you with something like 10-15 different manufacturers, that's not suprising. At least the U.S. only had five or six. It took them until the late 1990s to finally sort themselves out - By buying American. http://www.trainboard.com/cool.gif

Tunnel88. All the pictures that I have seen have shown the locos with a very clear exhaust.

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Ron Carlisle

[Ron Carlisle]

Jim,
In case you are wondering why the second degree with difficult questions, I like to model the Rio Grande, and was wondering whether it would have been possible to Scratch build a couple of these diesels http://www.trainboard.com/smile.gif

However my wife came up with the comment that if I did, I had better not complete them, but leave bits lying around it and put lots of railway mechanics and such like. And I would also have to build a model of the Burnham Shops to exhibit them. http://www.trainboard.com/tongue.gif
Smart Alec female. I knew I should'nt have got her interested in model railroads.

But again Jim thanks for all of your help.


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Ron Carlisle
Rio Grande Main Line Thru the Rockies

[slimjim375]

The main problem with the ML-4's and modeling is the proper power trucks. This was hashed out of the DRGW e-mail lise a while back dealing with the Rivarossi drive. Nothing was found that came close to the wheelbase and spacing. If you could build your own, not that hard, you still have to deal with the side frames, not that easy. There were brass ones built, but with poor drive trains.
http://www.geocities.com/utahrails/trace2.jpg

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Jim Harrawood #85
Utah Rails (http://www.crosswinds.net/~utahrails/index.html)
D&RGW---Main Line Thru The Rockies

[slimjim375]

Hey Ron,

Back to your original question. I got a little off track.
When they did their first break in runs they ran down the joint line, then they ran on the Moffat Line , Denver to SaltLake. They were used in General Freight service. I don't know if they ever ran on Tenn. Pass,
Never heard of any trips or have seen any pictures... I did here from railfan Neil
Miller, that when the 2 KMs went to the NYC, the single unit went to Leadville(came down form Minturn) and was tested against either
GP-9s or SD-9s.
------------

http://www.geocities.com/utahrails/trace2.jpg


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Jim Harrawood #85
Utah Rails (http://www.crosswinds.net/~utahrails/index.html)
D&RGW---Main Line Thru The Rockies

[Ron Carlisle]

Hey Jim,

Thanks for all of the information. I happened to look in an old Caboose Hobbies Brass model catalogue yesterday, and after seeing the price for just one locomotive, I think I will give them a miss. http://www.trainboard.com/frown.gif

But again thanks for all of your help. http://www.trainboard.com/biggrin.gif

Sorry for the delay in answering, but shift work does not help matters




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Ron Carlisle
Rio Grande Main Line Thru the Rockies