Colorado Coal

[DRGWEngr]

Maybe they are getting them in and out of the yards faster, but then they tie them down enroute. Not solving the problems, just moving it to a different place( on the main lines)

From UP Online:

February 23, 2001
Teamwork Grows Colorado Coal Market
When UP railroaders think about coal, what usually comes to mind is Wyoming's Powder River Basin, the largest source of UP's energy operations. But there's another UP-served coal source that's coming on strong: Colorado.

The Denver Service Unit is improving velocity to and from Colorado's mountains, using teamwork and communications as the key drivers. More coal trains are moving faster than ever before, even with Maintenance of Way projects under way to upgrade facilities.

Superintendent Mike Paras credits teamwork with decreasing dwell time on the service unit. In 1998, empties moving through Denver spent more than 13-1/2 hours in the yard, and those destined for Grand Junction were there about 8-1/4 hours.

Now those times are down to about 5-1/2 to 6 hours on Denver's coal empties and 3-1/2 to 4 hours for Grand Junction. Loaded coal train dwell also has been greatly reduced.

"It's strictly due to the teamwork," Paras says. "We have worked a lot smarter than we have in the past." As a result, throughput has increased, without a lot of physical improvements being made. The teamwork involves the service unit, Harriman Dispatching Center, the Bulk Group and locomotive personnel.

During 2000, the Denver Service Unit averaged 6.21 loaded coal trains per day, said Tom Lammers, director of network operations. This was up from an average of 6.04 coal trains from six mines in 1998. During the first month of 2001, coal trains averaged 6.77 per day from five mines -- one mine has closed.

On the North Fork Branch, the number of trains per day in January was up over the 2000 average, despite a slow start due to weather and the holidays. During January, North Fork averaged 3.77 loaded coal trains per day, up from the average of 2.78 in 2000, 2.61 in 1999, and 2.35 in 1998. Last year's numbers were adversely affected because the largest producer, West Elk Mine, was shut down for half of the year, Lammers said.

"The loadings in Colorado have moved away from the Craig Branch to the North Fork Branch, which creates an even bigger challenge," Lammers said. "We are doing more on the North Fork Branch than any time in the past three years. These numbers have been accomplished without any increase in facilities on the North Fork."

To ensure the cars are moving as expediently as possible, personnel from the service unit, HDC and Marketing work together, with Denver Command Center playing an integral role in keeping trains moving in and out of the yard.

Four daily coal conference calls provide updates on local and HDC issues. "It is just an ongoing process to let each other know where we are at," said Dwayne Folmer, HDC director for the Northern Region. "That way, the reaction time is cut down to almost nothing."

The calls are an outgrowth of the Coal 85 team, originally formed two years ago to increase coal loadings and work out a schedule to give Maintenance of Way crews track time. Meetings were held to discuss upcoming projects and how to coordinate work trains and crew work schedules while keeping the trains moving. Team members used problem-solving methods to come up with ways to accomplish these objectives, Folmer said.

"The main benefit was learning how to work with each other," he noted. "We're to the point where we don't have to have a monthly meeting." Meetings are held periodically, such as the one in mid-December prior to maintenance work beginning on the North Fork Branch. Crossing and rail rehabilitation work began Jan. 16, and a tie gang will start working Feb. 16 on the project from Grand Junction to West Elk Mine. An 8-hour track curfew means trains will move during the other 16 hours.

The meeting allowed UP representatives to discuss the project and its impact, and also talk with the mines' representatives. "They were able to offer some suggestions that would help maintain the loadings," Folmer said.

In the past, these same team efforts were used as the KP line from Denver to Topeka was upgraded. The biggest hurdle there was getting the loads and empties across that track. During most of 2000, loads ran east and empties were diverted through North Platte and Cheyenne, Lammers said.

To increase Denver traffic flow, the team moved locations for fueling and inspections to Salina and Pueblo. This allowed more trains to move through the yard and decreased the dwell time.

Colorado coal moves to Chicago, Mexico, Kentucky, New York, Mississippi and the West Coast for export to the Pacific Rim. The coal has a higher BTU rating than Powder River Basin coal, and the two types of coal are often blended together to maximize a power plant's output.

Mike

Railblazer (http://homestead.com/railblazer/)

[slimjim]

They sure paint a pretty picture for the share holders. If they only knew the truth :D.

[rgn1]

Does UP stand for Unmitigated Propaganda? :rolleyes:

[ 26 February 2001: Message edited by: rgn1 ]

[tunnel88]

I'm not sure if i should cheer or laugh!

I do see those trains just waiting for hours though...

[friscobob]

Them boys is a-lyin'!
I've seen consists sitting in GJ's East Yard for longer that what UP claims. Also, they've been known for parking loaded trains (sans power) in the sidings at Fruita, just west of Junction. Kinda reminded me of the Texas Meltdown, where trains were parked in sidings all over Texas & Oklahoma after the SP merger. (didya notice how fast the "We Will Deliver" slogan dropped out of sight?)
Granted, there's a lot of coal coming off the North Fork Branch these days, and the vast majority of power here is six-axle AC diesels.
Maybe we need some of Mike's co-workers to post their opinions on here- get both sides of the story (I believe Mike- I'm having a hard time accepting the corporate BS)

[DRGWEngr]

Man I love your responses :cool: I would love to share these with the stock holders if I knew they wouldn't trace me down. You guys don't realize the BS the UP puts out to the employees and stock holders in their daily UP Online and Bi-monthly Info magazine.
I thought I would put this out since it deals with Colorado coal and you guys see what is going on on a daily basis.

What UP did was cut down(somewhat) on terminal dwell time;time spent in the yard. In return you have coal empties ANDloads tied down in sidings north,east and west of Denver. As you know UP "stages" trains out of Grand Jct. as far east as Glenwood. So now you have fewer sidings for the dispatcher to make meets, which in turn trains wait extended periods of time at available sidings. Sooo, the crew goes dead, call a dog crew and hopefully they can make it. Efficient?

Between Pburg and Denver only 1 out of 2 trains make it with only one crew. The old Grande dispatchers laugh and say "Denver can't take you right now",then either tie it down or a dog crew will get you.

If you can get ahold of the lastest Trains check out the article after the "Don't mess with the big bird" article. It's on page 44 and titled "Five steps to rebuild rail service" by Jim Giblin. On page 46 he talks about not having any expereinced railroaders running the railroads. Here's a quote from that part: "On most railroads, there are very few people either familiar with the territory, or who actually know how to make trains run on time.
"All the capacity in the world is worthless without the competency to use it properly. the problem is not the lack of financial capital; it is the lack of human capital in the form of qualified, experienced, operating employees. In a service business, people really are the most important asset. Invest in people, not machines."

In a photo caption on same page of a Rio Grande freight; "Capacity is worthless without the competency to use it: Burdened by a twisted single-track mountain main line, Rio Grande's on-the-spot managers aggressively powered up it's short trains-and fought Union Pacific and Santa Fe's double-track speedways to a draw".

Is this the truth or what. This is why railfans, railroaders and just Joe public were in awe of the Grande. Here's a small mom and pop railroad competing with the big boys and making money at it. Employees had alot of company pride with the Rio Grande, this is something that UP does not have anymore.

Hell the president of the UP isn't even a rail, he used to make refrigerators for GE. Case closed.

Mike

Railblazer (http://homestead.com/railblazer/)

[friscobob]

Mike,
You're probably aware of the E-newsletter callde "Snakebites", surreptitiously put out by UP employees based at Roseville. Man, talk about ripping the bosses a new one!!

I'm sorry to hear that UP has forgotten how to run a railroad. Wonder if they were always
this way........

[rgn1]

Wonder if the Upchuck (&) Pathetic pays Kalmbach a large fee for their gratuitous advertising(articles) they have produced over the years. Makes me gag. :eek: redface.gif :( Oops, am I flaming? ;)

[ 27 February 2001: Message edited by: rgn1 ]

[watash]

My stars and garters, it sounds like you guys are not fond of the Ugly & Peukie! :eek:

[DRGWEngr]

Hi all,

Yes I've heard of the 'snake bites' site, glad to know we aren't the only one's that have problems. And No, Up wasn't always this way. All my mothers side and several friends work(ed) for the UP. Things didn't start going to hell until the MOP takeover. What I mean is the UP merged with the WP and MP but the MOP management took over with their militaristic(sp) way of thinking. And you all can see the result.

I wonder how much UP paid Fred W. Frailey to write the "Don't mess with the big bird; Welcome to the biggest,baddest railroad in the world." article in Trains? It sure paints a pretty picture. Really insulting to your intelligence. All one has to do is look out the window, ask any employee, or the big one: ASK THE CUSTOMERS.

Watash: Yes I'm still fond of the ol' UP.
Check out my new site that I just
spent the last 4 days doing and
more to come.

UPLocos (http://homestead.com/uplocos/)

Take care
Mike

Railblazer (http://homestead.com/railblazer/)

[rgn1]

I probably will not be on their Christmas list. ;) :rolleyes:

[HemiAdda2d]

Man I love your responses :cool: I would love to share these with the stock holders if I knew they wouldn't trace me down. You guys don't realize the BS the UP puts out to the employees and stock holders in their daily UP Online and Bi-monthly Info magazine.
I thought I would put this out since it deals with Colorado coal and you guys see what is going on on a daily basis.

What UP did was cut down(somewhat) on terminal dwell time;time spent in the yard. In return you have coal empties ANDloads tied down in sidings north,east and west of Denver. As you know UP "stages" trains out of Grand Jct. as far east as Glenwood. So now you have fewer sidings for the dispatcher to make meets, which in turn trains wait extended periods of time at available sidings. Sooo, the crew goes dead, call a dog crew and hopefully they can make it. Efficient?

Between Pburg and Denver only 1 out of 2 trains make it with only one crew. The old Grande dispatchers laugh and say "Denver can't take you right now",then either tie it down or a dog crew will get you.

If you can get ahold of the lastest Trains check out the article after the "Don't mess with the big bird" article. It's on page 44 and titled "Five steps to rebuild rail service" by Jim Giblin. On page 46 he talks about not having any expereinced railroaders running the railroads. Here's a quote from that part: "On most railroads, there are very few people either familiar with the territory, or who actually know how to make trains run on time.
"All the capacity in the world is worthless without the competency to use it properly. the problem is not the lack of financial capital; it is the lack of human capital in the form of qualified, experienced, operating employees. In a service business, people really are the most important asset. Invest in people, not machines."

In a photo caption on same page of a Rio Grande freight; "Capacity is worthless without the competency to use it: Burdened by a twisted single-track mountain main line, Rio Grande's on-the-spot managers aggressively powered up it's short trains-and fought Union Pacific and Santa Fe's double-track speedways to a draw".

Is this the truth or what. This is why railfans, railroaders and just Joe public were in awe of the Grande. Here's a small mom and pop railroad competing with the big boys and making money at it. Employees had alot of company pride with the Rio Grande, this is something that UP does not have anymore.

Hell the president of the UP isn't even a rail, he used to make refrigerators for GE. Case closed.

Mike

Railblazer (http://homestead.com/railblazer/)

Mike, are thing at Ultimate Predator any better nowadays? I know they are pushing more coal trains over the hill than the 2000 stats.. Is terminal dwell time any better? I know, more often than not I saw trains tied down at sidings on the Moffat, on account of no space at Denver.

[JASON]

Good point Jere.Here's hoping the TP will be re-opened lol.
How ironic,I was just looking at Mikes site last night in my search for TP info.Even tho this thread is 5 years old,it would be interesting to hear how things are going.

[HemiAdda2d]

God help my wallet is TP is re-opened, even temporarily! I'll be there opening day, and prolly stay a week! I have about 28 days of vacation.....

[david f.]

i was riding the river yesterday between spikebuck and parkdale (west of canon city), and some of the weeds/bushes on the tracks are 4' high. if the Tennesee Pass route is ever re-opened everyone will know it because there will be a big maintenance effort required to get it ready.
dave f.

[grande5771]

Hi all,
Being lucky enough to get paid whilst traversing some of the D&RGW lines, here are some shortened conversations and observations.
Coal dwell time:
Within the past month or so, coal loads seem to be on the move. There are not near as many sidings blocked as usual. How long that will last is anyones guess.
However, movement and efficiency are not necessarily equal. A full coal train was passing through Dotsero at 1600 and made it as far as Range at 1800. I'm sure it was put in the hole so #6 could run around it and for an empty coal meet. However, the empty went by at 1700 and there were no opposing trains that I saw from Range to Bond. I did see a Rentzenberger van go by, with possibly a dog crew. I saw the train again at Bond at 2030, not moving BTW. So............
TP: About once a month a D&RGW (UP) engineer graces my train store. They have told me that there is a very good chance that The Pass will reopen. There are two mines northwest of GJ that will be using the new spur from Mack when if and when is built. Projections are that there could be 6-8 trains per day. Also, the North Fork mines are already screaming for better service. Draw your own conclusions.
If I hear anything definite, I will post it here.
And, hello David from a former resident of Canon City (not the big hotel btw). How is the old town doing?

[HemiAdda2d]

Interesting! I figure if 'Unmitigated Propoganda' (shamelessly stolen from another post in this forum) wants to increase capacity it would likely lengthen sidings, install a second main track, and such to do the job. I fear opening Tenn. Pass will cost too much. But it would be great to see!

[bravogjt]

Rod -

It's good to see another TB member from Grand Junction on here. I sure hope to see the spur go in at Mack.

Ben

[david f.]

And, hello David from a former resident of Canon City (not the big hotel btw). How is the old town doing?

things aren't too bad in CC. we have Chili's, Denny's, a new hotel coming with another restaurant (Red Robin??), and a Home Depot. Canon is growing.

the "big hotel" (aka prisons) are growing too. SuperMax (federal) in florence keeps getting important customers. i understand they have an al-queda wing on the drawing board -- but if that's really true no one is saying.

the big fun is the number of regular trains going through town. Rock and Rail is really doing the business (i'm counting four trains a day) and the Royal Gorge Route is packed most every weekend (and many weekdays). For a Grande fan the Royal Gorge Route is like being home.

sadly, the plans are to paint the road units (GP7 #2238 and SD9 #5305) in the silver/orange/black stripe scheme! (frankly i just can't get my head around that. it would be like decorating a Rio Grande tunnel motor in pink and lace). but that IS the plan!

a lot has changed, but to an old resident ... not much has changed.
dave f.

[HemiAdda2d]

sadly, the plans are to paint the road units (GP7 #2238 and SD9 #5305) in the silver/orange/black stripe scheme! (frankly i just can't get my head around that. it would be like decorating a Rio Grande tunnel motor in pink and lace). but that IS the plan!
dave f.

:omg::omg::omg:

[coloradorailroads]

Silver. Orange. Black. on a road switcher. BLECH! Maybe on a wide nose unit like an SD70 ACe, but not a spartan cab. It just wouldn't look right.

:oo2pz::grumpy6ho::hmm4er::unsure8ao:

[HemiAdda2d]

WP..... Silver, Orange and black--looked SHARP IMNSHO.....

[david f.]

i can see your point with regard to WP, but this repaint will mimic the traditional F unit scheme. the owners (ashby, esp.) are big time rail fans and operators, but somehow the idea has captured them and it's in the pipeline. i don't care what they do with #2238, but #5305 is a REAl Rio Grande loco and i think deserves to keep her tiger stripes!

call the Royal Gorge Route and ask them NOT to paint 5305!!! (that'll win me some friends in town i bet! not!). at least the employees will love you.
dave f.

[grande5771]

Hi Ben,
If you are an HO or N-scale modeler, stop by my train store at 840 1st Avenue. Even if you don't model, stop by and say hi some time.
It is in the alley behind Glen's Distributing at Ninth Street and South Ave. I am open on Saturday from 12noon to 7pm and Sunday from 2pm to 5pm. If you need to call, the phone number is 255-1300.
Thanks.
Rod

[JASON]

Hey Rod,have you a web site for your shop?What sort of DRGW goodies can we find there ? :)

[bravogjt]

Hi Rod!

You have probably seen my son Preston and I in there from time to time. We stop by every couple of weeks so I can look at the latest goodies and so that Preston can run the HO layout. We will probably be back in sometime this next weekend. We'll see you then.

Ben

[grande5771]

Hey Ben, I did not realize it was you. DOH!!!!
Should have put 2 & 2 together, but then again, I was not a math major.

Jason, I do not have a website, but I do try to stock as much D&RGW in N & HO as possible. Let me know what you might be looking for. I also give very good discounts to offset shipping costs.
Thanks.

[bravogjt]

Jason,

As Rod said they do have a great selection and the prices are hard to beat. I bought an SP Intermountain diesel from them at an awesome price and I love it!

Ben